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Footballking16

Kevin Wilson

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On 12/4/2016 at 8:27 AM, Muda69 said:

‘I’m paying $70,000 a year for you to sit on your ass,’   : http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2016/12/03/exclusive-2015-investigation-into-player-treatment-contributed-kevin-wilsons-resignation/94862298/

An interesting read.  And I didn't know that the cost to rehabilitate injured players came out of Mr. Wilson's salary.

 

It was him being a smart a$$ insinuating that he could have given some other kid a $70k scholarship who wouldn't pretend to be injured.

Note-above is how I interpreted Wilson's comment, not how I really feel.

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More info coming out now. From this morning's Times of Northwest Indiana. John Doherty is a certified athletic trainer, formerly the head athletic trainer at Munster HS for many years, and a member of the Indiana Football Hall of Fame. He writes a weekly column in The Times.  http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/columnists/john-doherty/john-doherty-there-s-a-back-story-to-wilson-s/article_04b62559-d264-51cb-b823-2f6cbb5b1682.html

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5 hours ago, bobref said:

More info coming out now. From this morning's Times of Northwest Indiana. John Doherty is a certified athletic trainer, formerly the head athletic trainer at Munster HS for many years, and a member of the Indiana Football Hall of Fame. He writes a weekly column in The Times.  http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/columnists/john-doherty/john-doherty-there-s-a-back-story-to-wilson-s/article_04b62559-d264-51cb-b823-2f6cbb5b1682.html

Same article came out in the Star last week. IU knew of Nick Carovillano's and his fathers complaints almost a year before they gave Wilson a 6 year raise worth $15 million, and even conducted an internal investigation. Glass knew all of this before rewarding Wilson with a raise. Wilson was given a raise because Glass was happy with the progress the Indiana football was making. Had performance been a factor there's no way Wilson would have been given an extension, Glass would have parted ways with Wilson after the season last year.

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2016/12/03/exclusive-2015-investigation-into-player-treatment-contributed-kevin-wilsons-resignation/94862298/

https://www.wthr.com/article/kravitz-despite-his-on-field-successes-kevin-wilson-gets-shown-the-door-at-iu

It wasn't until a second report leaked to ESPN, that Glass forced his hand. He had to act quickly and decisively and that's the reason he accepted Wilson's resignation so he wouldn't have to say anything to the media. Had Glass terminated Wilson or Wilson fought the termination, Glass would have had to address the multiple reports and investigations of player misconduct and answer to the media as to why he gave Wilson such a lengthy and pricey contract even after knowing what he knew about Wilson and allegations of player misconduct.

 

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12 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

Not a chance. If performance had been lumped into it, Wilson more than likely would have fought it and would have won. IU would not have given him a 6 year raise  only to fire him one year later. Despite what the Dude and Komet say, this IU team that went 6-6, 4-5 in conference is the BEST season IU has had in over 20 years. It may not meet their delusional expectations but this no doubt was a successful season that almost all IU fans can get behind. 

I think Glass planned this strategically. IU conducted an investigation in 2015, BEFORE they gave him an extension. Why would Glass take that risk on a $12mil raise if they had already conducted a search on previous player mistreatment? Feel like a potential lawsuit could make a $12mil buyout seem like chump change. Wilson was Glass and IU's guy from day 1. It was not until a second report surfaced publicly that forced Glass hand. IU had leverage on Wilson and it would have looked terrible had IU retained Wilson and these reports surfaced years after the fact. That culminated with potential lawsuit(s) from families of these players really left Glass with no choice. 

But I simply cannot get behind the fact that Wilson would still be IU's coach had they won 8 games instead of 6. No chance. It would look TERRIBLE on IU if ever came out that the AD put emphasis on wins over player safety.

Wish I read your post before I responded to Bobref. Couldn't have said it better.

Delusion comes from the eyes of the beholder.  The Dude has a feeling the Dude isn't the only one expecting a better product.  Best of luck to Coach Wilson.

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39 minutes ago, Lebowski said:

Delusion comes from the eyes of the beholder.  The Dude has a feeling the Dude isn't the only one expecting a better product.  Best of luck to Coach Wilson.

Indiana is historically the worst P5 football school in the history of D1 Football. Wilson was brought on to change the culture of Indiana football and put a competitive product on the field. To deny he did that in his time at IU is laugh out loud funny.  You, Komet, a few others, are the select few who do not see the gradual progress being made at Indiana University with each passing year. Wilson bridged the talent gap that historically saw Indiana University at the bottom of the B10 nearly every single year, to a team who now regularly competes with not only the B10's best, but the nation's best football teams. Indiana arguably plays in the toughest division in college football. Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State are three blue-blood programs.  All three teams finished the regular season in the top 6 in the nation, think about that? Michigan State had a down year this year, but in the last 5 years they've won 2 B10 titles, a Rose Bowl, and played in college football's playoff just last year. If you expect IU to win 8-9 games every year playing in the division they play I have but one little piece of advice for you: Sh*t in one hand, wish in the other, and see which one fills up first. I believe there are years where IU can beat one or two of those teams in their down years, but fact of the matter is, Urban Meyer, Jim Harbaugh, Mark Dantonio, and James Franklin are 4 of the best coaches in all of college football and they are going nowhere soon.

I hope Tom Allen can sustain what Wilson started but I have my doubts as to whether or not Allen can recruit at a national level to keep IU consistently competitive with the blue-bloods of college football that appear on IU's schedule every year. Luckily for Allen, IU is not starting from scratch. Wilson has recruited and developed major talent in his tenure at Indiana and that cupboard certainly isn't bare for next years squad. I hope I'm wrong, but would not be shocked in the least to see IU relegate themselves to their old selves of B10 bottom feeders. I think in a few years, guys like you, Komet, etc, will look back and say, "Wow, Wilson was the best thing that happened to IU (from an on-field perspective)" as we watch the Ohio State's, the Michigan's, the Penn State's of the world routinely beat Indiana by 50-60 points as they've routinely done in years past.

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30 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Indiana is historically the worst P5 football school in the history of D1 Football. Wilson was brought on to change the culture of Indiana football and put a competitive product on the field. To deny he did that in his time at IU is laugh out loud funny.  You, Komet, a few others, are the select few who do not see the gradual progress being made at Indiana University with each passing year. Wilson bridged the talent gap that historically saw Indiana University at the bottom of the B10 nearly every single year, to a team who now regularly competes with not only the B10's best, but the nation's best football teams. Indiana arguably plays in the toughest division in college football. Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State are three blue-blood programs.  All three teams finished the regular season in the top 6 in the nation, think about that? Michigan State had a down year this year, but in the last 5 years they've won 2 B10 titles, a Rose Bowl, and played in college football's playoff just last year. If you expect IU to win 8-9 games every year playing in the division they play I have but one little piece of advice for you: Sh*t in one hand, wish in the other, and see which one fills up first. I believe there are years where IU can beat one or two of those teams in their down years, but fact of the matter is, Urban Meyer, Jim Harbaugh, Mark Dantonio, and James Franklin are 4 of the best coaches in all of college football and they are going nowhere soon.

I hope Tom Allen can sustain what Wilson started but I have my doubts as to whether or not Allen can recruit at a national level to keep IU consistently competitive with the blue-bloods of college football that appear on IU's schedule every year. Luckily for Allen, IU is not starting from scratch. Wilson has recruited and developed major talent in his tenure at Indiana and that cupboard certainly isn't bare for next years squad. I hope I'm wrong, but would not be shocked in the least to see IU relegate themselves to their old selves of B10 bottom feeders. I think in a few years, guys like you, Komet, etc, will look back and say, "Wow, Wilson was the best thing that happened to IU (from an on-field perspective)" as we watch the Ohio State's, the Michigan's, the Penn State's of the world routinely beat Indiana by 50-60 points as they've routinely done in years past.

No one is denying poop.  Expectations on the other hand is a different story.  Take your blinders off and read what is being typed.  Again, best of luck to Coach Wilson.

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25 minutes ago, Lebowski said:

No one is denying poop.  Expectations on the other hand is a different story.  Take your blinders off and read what is being typed.  Again, best of luck to Coach Wilson.

My blinders are off. What your expectations of Indiana football are (consistent 8-9 win seasons) differ from the expectations of most fans and the athletic department. You do NOT go from a perennial 2-3 win a year team to a perennial 8-9 year a team overnight. While 8-9 wins a year is a goal IU one day hopes to gravitate too, there is a process in doing so. Fred Glass and Indiana saw the process Wilson was making, thus offered him a 6 year extension to further expand on the progress he was already making. This is how you build a program.

Again, he's gone so it doesn't matter. But I defend this theory or notion that on-field production played a part in his forced resignation. It did not. Glass stated it did not, the reports coming out about player mistreatment suggest otherwise, there's just a small minority of people who think this is production related. And I will defend that notion every single time it is brought up. When IU goes 4-8 next year with Wilson's players I better see you on here calling for Allen's head.

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@Footballking16:  No matter what anyone says to the contrary and regardless of the evidence, there are a few on here who will hold to their own misguided beliefs.  "Wilson was let go due to his record.  It had nothing to do with mistreatment of players in spite of investigations that say so otherwise."  There are those who have their own delusional expectations for the IU football program.  They talk as if what they say will be heard and complied with by the coaching staff and administration.  And if their expectations aren't met, then IU should get rid of the lousy coach.  And they want everyone else to feel the same way.  They just can NOT see progress due to the fact they are stuck on their expectations not being met.  I think they call that "clouded judgment".  IU has a long history of hiring coaches and then eating their salaries after they fire them before their contract is up.  As far as Allen being the head man now, I think it is a band aid.  I could see IU falling on their behinds now depending on how well Allen is accepted and if he can find his OC.  Lagow was not Sudfeld.  That was a big problem for this year's offense.  I had hopes he would develop over the season but I am at the conclusion he is just not a D-1 big time quarterback.  I realize that IU lost a couple of starting linemen to injuries which didn't help either.  If you watch films of Lagow you will see a pattern:  overthrow, underthrow.  He just never got in sync with receivers on a consistent basis.  Now Diamont is leaving so IU will need to recruit a quarterback and soon.  The defense is fairly solid.  The stats will bear that out.  It's the offense that is going to be the downfall of next year's team.  And now Wilson, (who talking heads proclaim is an offensive guru) is gone.  Looks like another uphill season in 2017.  I will be paying close attention to how the team responds to Allen in the bowl game. 

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7 minutes ago, itiswhatitis said:

@Footballking16:  No matter what anyone says to the contrary and regardless of the evidence, there are a few on here who will hold to their own misguided beliefs.  "Wilson was let go due to his record.  It had nothing to do with mistreatment of players in spite of investigations that say so otherwise."  There are those who have their own delusional expectations for the IU football program.  They talk as if what they say will be heard and complied with by the coaching staff and administration.  And if their expectations aren't met, then IU should get rid of the lousy coach.  And they want everyone else to feel the same way.  They just can NOT see progress due to the fact they are stuck on their expectations not being met.  I think they call that "clouded judgment".  IU has a long history of hiring coaches and then eating their salaries after they fire them before their contract is up.  As far as Allen being the head man now, I think it is a band aid.  I could see IU falling on their behinds now depending on how well Allen is accepted and if he can find his OC.  Lagow was not Sudfeld.  That was a big problem for this year's offense.  I had hopes he would develop over the season but I am at the conclusion he is just not a D-1 big time quarterback.  I realize that IU lost a couple of starting linemen to injuries which didn't help either.  If you watch films of Lagow you will see a pattern:  overthrow, underthrow.  He just never got in sync with receivers on a consistent basis.  Now Diamont is leaving so IU will need to recruit a quarterback and soon.  The defense is fairly solid.  The stats will bear that out.  It's the offense that is going to be the downfall of next year's team.  And now Wilson, (who talking heads proclaim is an offensive guru) is gone.  Looks like another uphill season in 2017.  I will be paying close attention to how the team responds to Allen in the bowl game. 

Reason #1 and really the only reason you need to know why Wilson wasn't fired for on-field performance is the fact that IU's ENTIRE staff has been retained. When coaches are canned or forced out due to record the entire staff goes with them. You're not going to fire an under performing coach and retain the entire staff are you? No, you look to move on, why would you keep together a staff (minus the head coach) that hasn't been living up to expectations?

Allen was a safe hire because, contrary to the belief of Dude, Komet, etc, IU was happy with the results and progress Wilson and his staff were making. Retaining Allen more than likely guarantees that the majority of last years staff is kept intact and there isn't much, if any turnover from this years team to next years squad. Glass didn't want to run the risk of hiring an outsider to come in and potentially mess with the mild success IU has enjoyed the last two years. As they say, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", IU doesn't need to do anything to a team who once again should exceed IU football expectations. It's not rocket science and I still can't believe some of the people on here are suggesting the things they say.

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You guys don't know how to read.  Go back and read what the Dude posted.  The main point the Dude's been trying to say in this thread is that you don't even know the whole story.  Stop talking down to the Dude.  

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23 minutes ago, Lebowski said:

You guys don't know how to read.  Go back and read what the Dude posted.  The main point the Dude's been trying to say in this thread is that you don't even know the whole story.  Stop talking down to the Dude.  

The story is getting clearer and clearer by the day. IU themselves, along with 2 other independent firms, conducted investigations regarding player mistreatment under the supervision of head coach Kevin Wilson. The findings of those reports were withheld from public eye until very recently. That has been reported as fact. Despite the findings, Fred Glass still rewarded Wilson with an extension based on production and performance. It wasn't until a story leaked to ESPN that Wilson was forced to resign. If you don't think it's plausible that Fred Glass intended to keep this mum you're delusional, and I mean that. But with a major media outlet getting whim of internal investigations that were withheld from the public eye, Fred Glass had no choice to but to remove Wilson from his position as the potential backlash for not only retaining but rewarding Wilson with a new contract could be damning to the university. TD said it best when he used the cutting off the head of the snake analogy. Glass killed the big problem (Wilson) but IU could still potentially see some fallout from this. This is why Kevin Wilson was forced to resign rather than Glass terminating him. Had Glass terminated Wilson, he would have had to answer to the media and the NCAA as to why Wilson was terminated, meaning he would have had to acknowledged that he knew of player mistreatment prior to rewarding Wilson with an extension. Then there would be some serious explaining to do. But because Wilson "resigned", Glass wasn't obligated to say anything, thus was able to get away with saying things like "differing philosophies" and "lack of leadership".

I'm not trying to talk down to the Dude. I'm simply trying to help the Dude understand he's making something more difficult than it needs to be,

Edited by Footballking16
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7 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

The story is getting clearer and clearer by the day. IU themselves, along with 2 other independent firms, conducted investigations regarding player mistreatment under the supervision of head coach Kevin Wilson. The findings of those reports were withheld from public eye until very recently. That has been reported as fact. Despite the findings, Fred Glass still rewarded Wilson with an extension based on production and performance. It wasn't until a story leaked to ESPN that Wilson was forced to resign. If you don't think it's plausible that Fred Glass intended to keep this mum you're delusional, and I mean that. But with a major media outlet getting whim of internal investigations that were withheld from the public eye, Fred Glass had no choice to but to remove Wilson from his position as the potential backlash for not only retaining but rewarding Wilson with a new contract could be damning to the university. TD said it best when he used the cutting off the head of the snake analogy. Glass killed the big problem (Wilson) but IU could still potentially see some fallout from this. This is why Kevin Wilson was forced to resign rather than Glass terminating him. Had Glass terminated Wilson, he would have had to answer to the media and the NCAA as to why Wilson was terminated, meaning he would have had to acknowledged that he knew of player mistreatment prior to rewarding Wilson with an extension. Then there would be some serious explaining to do. But because Wilson "resigned", Glass wasn't obligated to say anything, thus was able to get away with saying things like "differing philosophies" and "lack of leadership".

I'm not trying to talk down to the Dude. I'm simply trying to help the Dude understand he's making something more difficult than it needs to be,

What do you want?  A cookie?  Calling someone delusional is indeed talking down to someone.  Whether or not you are trying to do so.  You do understand that, correct?  If you're really trying you would go back and read the Dude's post.  You clearly didn't fully read them.   What's funny is the guy is gone and you're still apologizing for him.  That's effin' crazy man.  

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1 hour ago, Lebowski said:

What do you want?  A cookie?  Calling someone delusional is indeed talking down to someone.  Whether or not you are trying to do so.  You do understand that, correct?  If you're really trying you would go back and read the Dude's post.  You clearly didn't fully read them.   What's funny is the guy is gone and you're still apologizing for him.  That's effin' crazy man.  

I'm not apologizing for his dismissal. In this very thread, that I started, I've said vehemently multiple times that Wilson deserved to see the door based on the reports made available to the public.

However, I've argued and will continue to argue and defend the notion that performance factored into Wilson's forced resignation. There is ZERO evidence that supports that claim. The only people still supporting are those with crazed program expectations.

I've read your posts. You don't want nor think I can say performance factored into his dismissal because "I don't know the whole story". Here's what I do know. Glass, at his presser said verbatim, "this has NOTHING to do with performance". Those words came out of his mouth verbatim. Another reason, I can read between the lines and understand that Glass gave Wilson an extension because he was happy with results and performance DESPITE the fact he conducted an internal investigation looking into player mistreatment under Wilson's supervision an entire year before the raise was given. Why would Glass give Wilson a 6 year extension knowing what he knew at the time? Because he was happy with results and performance.

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Man, you're exhausting.  See the difference is the Dude's not arguing.  You are the one being combative.  The Dude's just pointing out you don't know poop in the grand scheme of things.  Go back and read the Dude's post.  

Edited by Lebowski
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I hope for Indiana University's sake, this parting of the ways, really was for reasons other than performance.   To get back on the, coaching change, merry-go-round for performance reasons, will put this program back to zero. Weather it be underling or actual. Fred glass had a deep commitment with Wilson and the commitment was mutual with Wilson. This coach may have never taken the team to a rose bowl or a national championship, but what this team need more than anything was consistency. And Wilson was that. For a program that has not had any consistency for 25 years,  and a record to prove it. This move could be the first step to getting back to,  the next coach will get us to the championship, merry-go-round. IF and BIG IF the parting of ways was for performance.

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16 hours ago, southend said:

I hope for Indiana University's sake, this parting of the ways, really was for reasons other than performance.   To get back on the, coaching change, merry-go-round for performance reasons, will put this program back to zero. Weather it be underling or actual. Fred glass had a deep commitment with Wilson and the commitment was mutual with Wilson. This coach may have never taken the team to a rose bowl or a national championship, but what this team need more than anything was consistency. And Wilson was that. For a program that has not had any consistency for 25 years,  and a record to prove it. This move could be the first step to getting back to,  the next coach will get us to the championship, merry-go-round. IF and BIG IF the parting of ways was for performance.

Consistency of what?  Two years for ending the season .500?  

The Dude gets it.  Folks liked Wilson and thought he was doing good things at IU.  

But here's his overall HC resume:

Overall    26–47 (college)
0–10 (high school)
Bowls    0–1

According to the press he was let go and accused for some pretty crazy poop.  And folks on here are still apologizing for his performance.  

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HA, You know what Polish guy,if you're happy i'm happy! Negativity and degradation is you're game. You win! Glass half full? or half empty? We know FOR you it's half empty. And for folks apologizing ? Whats up with that?  Happy  New Year!

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15 hours ago, southend said:

HA, You know what Polish guy,if you're happy i'm happy! Negativity and degradation is you're game. You win! Glass half full? or half empty? We know FOR you it's half empty. And for folks apologizing ? Whats up with that?  Happy  New Year!

Not sure how to take this?  Thanks?

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Just to add some fuel to the fire, guess how many teams that Indiana beat this year qualified for a bowl game this year? ZERO!!! Even in the watered down system where teams below .500 qualify for a bowl, not one team that Indiana beat qualified for a bowl game yet some on here want to erect a statue for Wilson. 

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22 minutes ago, komets3001 said:

Just to add some fuel to the fire, guess how many teams that Indiana beat this year qualified for a bowl game this year? ZERO!!! Even in the watered down system where teams below .500 qualify for a bowl, not one team that Indiana beat qualified for a bowl game yet some on here want to erect a statue for Wilson. 

What about Maryland?

GB 

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Rumors circulating that Kevin Wilson is in position to be named Ohio State's next offensive coordinator.

This is interesting because Ohio State's first game next year is at none other than Memorial Stadium in Bloomington.

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15 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

Rumors circulating that Kevin Wilson is in position to be named Ohio State's next offensive coordinator.

This is interesting because Ohio State's first game next year is at none other than Memorial Stadium in Bloomington.

Best of luck to him.

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54 minutes ago, Lebowski said:

Best of luck to him.

I want to say potential best luck to IU's defense. Hopefully Wilson has soft spot in his heart for his former players, many who spoke out with support.

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Just now, Footballking16 said:

I want to say potential best luck to IU's defense. Hopefully Wilson has soft spot in his heart for his former players, many who spoke out with support.

If the Dude didn't know you were an IU fan this sounds more like you are a Wilson fan than a Hoosier.  Take it easy, man.  

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