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Can Northwood reload?

Will Warsaw underwhelm again?

Will Memorial continue to troll the bottom?

Will Wawasee pop its head above water soon?

Can Goshen continue to climb the ladder?

Will Concord begin to return to the Dawson Days of Dominance?

Plymouth at the crossroads, which path will they follow?

Is Northridge beginning to return to form after that one special class?

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3 hours ago, Houndstooth_Hat said:

Can Northwood reload?  YES

Will Warsaw underwhelm again?  YES

Will Memorial continue to troll the bottom?  YES

Will Wawasee pop its head above water soon?  NO

Can Goshen continue to climb the ladder?  NO

Will Concord begin to return to the Dawson Days of Dominance?  YES

Plymouth at the crossroads, which path will they follow?  Don't know what you are talking about but they will be good.

Is Northridge beginning to return to form after that one special class?  YES

 

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On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2016 at 11:05 AM, Houndstooth_Hat said:

Can Northwood reload?

Will Warsaw underwhelm again?

Will Memorial continue to troll the bottom?

Will Wawasee pop its head above water soon?

Can Goshen continue to climb the ladder?

Will Concord begin to return to the Dawson Days of Dominance?

Plymouth at the crossroads, which path will they follow?

Is Northridge beginning to return to form after that one special class?

Can Goshen continue to climb the ladder?   

Goshen Has to replace a lot on the Varsity team next year with numbers that were down throughout the program. Hopefully with the success they enjoyed more athletes will consider playing.

 

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I saw Mr Bill Beck is officially stepping away from the Elkart Truth entirely. He will be missed. As many remember, he used to post here, it was was always a great read, whether you agreed or not. 

Good Luck Bill, you will be missed!!!!!

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On 12/16/2016 at 11:05 AM, Houndstooth_Hat said:

Will Warsaw underwhelm again?

Just curious how high expectations are if you think the Tigers are going to underwhelm again?  No doubt they underwhelmed this season, but next year they have a lot to replace on both sides of the ball, but especially on the offensive side with Jensen, David and the Street brothers all gone.  So I suppose it's whether or not one's expectations are that they'll compete for an NLC title or bottom of the barrel.  At this point I'd say a 4-5 or 5-4 season would be the ceiling on my expectations.  They'd have to go 2-7 next year for me to consider them "underwhelming".

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I come from tiny little Fairfield, where there are about 60 to 70 boys in each grade and we struggle sometimes to get a lot of them to play football.  A class of 20 seniors is BIG for us....so this is why I am posting these facts:

Warsaw High School's enrollment is listed at 2114 students(25th largest in our state and a 6A football school)....about 500 students per grade.  Assuming around half are boys, there could be potential for a lot of sporting candidates.  Let's say about 35 of those 250 boys are interested in playing football. (I really don't know what the football numbers are like at Warsaw). 35 guys per grade for only 22 positions (offense and defense).  You could really have some battles for the starting spots.

Elkhart Memorial and Goshen would be the next two largest schools at around 1,800 students each...then Concord at 1600 students...all 5A schools. (that gap from 2,100 to 1,800 and 1,600 is the main reason that Indiana made a class 6A, I know Warsaw is one of the smaller 6A schools, but 500 students per grade is a HUGE school).

Northridge - 1300

Plymouth - 1100

Wawasee - 962

Northwood - 841

All of this to say that at our tiny little school, when numbers are up, we have really competitive teams.  At a school like Warsaw, the numbers "should" be up every single year.  The sheer numbers alone should be reason enough for Warsaw to be near or at the top of the NLC football championship every year.  I obviously don't know how the program operates, but number do not lie.  Warsaw football should be the king of the NLC.  In the last 10 years, Warsaw has only had 5 season above .500.  They also haven't won more than 7 games in any given season within the last 10 years.  I know Warsaw has always been the "basketball school", but why haven't they done better on the gridiron?  So...as an outsider looking in (and I have tons of respect for Warsaw and the NLC), to say Warsaw "underwhelmed" is an accurate statement.  They have "underwhelmed" for a decade.  Only my opinion.

Fairfield had a class two years ago where there were only 5 seniors. (It's tough to get these guys out and keep them out.....it's seeming like a trend for high school athletes to stop playing sports...I think this is across the state in every sport...not just football)  

Edited by Fairfield02
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On 1/17/2017 at 4:27 PM, NLCTigerFan07 said:

Just curious how high expectations are if you think the Tigers are going to underwhelm again?  No doubt they underwhelmed this season, but next year they have a lot to replace on both sides of the ball, but especially on the offensive side with Jensen, David and the Street brothers all gone.  So I suppose it's whether or not one's expectations are that they'll compete for an NLC title or bottom of the barrel.  At this point I'd say a 4-5 or 5-4 season would be the ceiling on my expectations.  They'd have to go 2-7 next year for me to consider them "underwhelming".

There are a couple of points to be made here. The first is that Warsaw's size and the quality of most of the athletic teams suggest that Warsaw should have the material to have a pretty good team year in and year out and probably should be competing for the NLC title most every year. With approximately 250 boys per class I do not buy the "basketball school" argument. Taking on average 12-15 players per class for basketball leaves plenty of athletes to field a potentially talented football pool of athletes.  The second is that before the season starts the community and many of you Tiger fans here on the forum have high expectations about the fortunes of the up coming version of the Warsaw football team only to generally see those hopes for conference and post season tourney success dashed along the way. So, when I say undewhelm, that is where I am coming from. I could be wrong....

On 1/17/2017 at 4:27 PM, NLCTigerFan07 said:

Just curious how high expectations are if you think the Tigers are going to underwhelm again?  No doubt they underwhelmed this season, but next year they have a lot to replace on both sides of the ball, but especially on the offensive side with Jensen, David and the Street brothers all gone.  So I suppose it's whether or not one's expectations are that they'll compete for an NLC title or bottom of the barrel.  At this point I'd say a 4-5 or 5-4 season would be the ceiling on my expectations.  They'd have to go 2-7 next year for me to consider them "underwhelming".

There are a couple of points to be made here. The first is that Warsaw's size and the quality of most of the athletic teams suggest that Warsaw should have the material to have a pretty good team year in and year out and probably should be competing for the NLC title most every year. With approximately 250 boys per class I do not buy the "basketball school" argument. Taking on average 12-15 players per class for basketball leaves plenty of athletes to field a potentially talented football pool of athletes.  The second is that before the season starts the community and many of you Tiger fans here on the forum have high expectations about the fortunes of the up coming version of the Warsaw football team only to generally see those hopes for conference and post season tourney success dashed along the way. So, when I say undewhelm, that is where I am coming from. I could be wrong....

Edited by Houndstooth_Hat
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I agree with Fairfield02. Being an outsider of the program but someone who follows 6A & 5A football, I feel the consensus across the state is "Why aren't they better"? Over the last 10 years they have a losing record and their conference is all made of smaller schools. Are they a basketball school? Does that even matter? I would compare Warsaw to a school like Homestead and they are competitive in football and basketball. Homestead is even in an arguably more difficult conference. And a little more north there is Noblesville. I believe Noblesville is also considered a Basketball school. They have not had a winning season since 01, but they are again in a more difficult conference. 

My question for Warsaw is are expectations too low and is football 2nd at the school behind basketball? 

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4 hours ago, Fairfield02 said:

At a school like Warsaw, the numbers "should" be up every single year.  The sheer numbers alone should be reason enough for Warsaw to be near or at the top of the NLC football championship every year.  I obviously don't know how the program operates, but number do not lie.  Warsaw football should be the king of the NLC.  In the last 10 years, Warsaw has only had 5 season above .500.  They also haven't won more than 7 games in any given season within the last 10 years.  I know Warsaw has always been the "basketball school", but why haven't they done better on the gridiron?  So...as an outsider looking in (and I have tons of respect for Warsaw and the NLC), to say Warsaw "underwhelmed" is an accurate statement.  They have "underwhelmed" for a decade.  Only my opinion.

35 minutes ago, INDHOF03 said:

I agree with Fairfield02. Being an outsider of the program but someone who follows 6A & 5A football ... They have not had a winning season since 01, but they are again in a more difficult conference. 

My question for Warsaw is are expectations too low and is football 2nd at the school behind basketball? 

I love it when outsiders comment on this.

- Warsaw numbers are always up.  I don't think anyone has ever said or complained at the roster size for Warsaw.  I will say there are a number of athletes on the basketball court that would have helped on the gridiron a number of years, but Warsaw hasn't been hurting for talent.

- In the last 10 years, Warsaw has had 7 seasons above .500 IN THE NLC (since that is what they are supposedly supposed to be dominated and king of) including 5 of the last 6 seasons, and @Fairfield02 did correctly state they have had only 5 seasons of above .500 overall records.  So @INDHOF03 I'm not sure what you're on to say they haven't had a winning season since 2001.

- 3 times in the last 5 years, they have been in the hunt for the conference championship.  In both 2012 and 2013, their regular season finale vs. Concord was for the NLC title, and just this year (even though they got destroyed), the NorthWood game was an opportunity for them to be in the running late in the regular season.

Also, if anyone (Warsaw fan or outsider) still says Warsaw is a "basketball" school, they are living in the 1980s/90s and are at least 50 years of age or older.  That is a ridiculous statement and not an excuse for Warsaw's lack of dominance on the football field.

Just my thoughts here, but if Warsaw is supposed to dominate the NLC, shouldn't Wawasee and NorthWood be at the bottom every year? I mean, if the size of school is equal to level of success a program is supposed to have, how can the Warriors and Panthers ever expect to compete?! :rolleyes:

I would also say this: yes, Warsaw SHOULD probably compete better/at a higher level on the football field, but it's not like they are finishing in the bottom 3rd (6th, 7th, 8th) EVERY year.  Also, outsiders can prefer to NOT take this into account, but the truth of the matter is Warsaw is competitive in just about every sport every year with multiple NLC titles throughout the school year.  How many NLC titles have the track team won in a row now?  Basketball has won 4 NLC titles in the last 7 seasons.  Golf routinely is at the top of the conference with multiple NLC championships at State Championship appearances, Soccer has been to state recently, and cross country, wrestling, swimming, tennis and baseball are all competitive.  

I'm not sure what it's like at other schools because I don't follow them as closely, but off the top of my head, the best football players (Spriggs and House at Concord, Linville at NorthWood, Barron at Plymouth just to name a few) ALL seem to play both Football and Basketball.  It seems to be less of the time that you see many football-basketball crossovers at Warsaw, especially if they are good/better at basketball.  Most of the other schools, their best basketball players also happen to play football, so there might be SOMETHING to the whole "basketball school", but again, it is not the DECIDING reason for Warsaw to not be more competitive on the football field.

Another thing that I think is worth pondering is the fact that Warsaw has two middle schools.  Do any other schools in the conference have more than 1?  That's a serious question.  The reason I bring it up is because while Warsaw might have a "numbers" advantage, what good is that advantage compared to other schools who's players might actually play together 2 or 3 more years longer?

I won't argue that Warsaw has "underwhelmed" in the past.  The whole reason I responded was in discussion about the 2017 season in which @Houndstooth_Hat asked if Warsaw would underwhelm again.  So, in speaking about the 2017 season, I answered it depends on what your expectations for this season are.  Apparently everyone else in the NLC and surrounding area believes they should win the NLC every year based on their enrollment size alone.  I'd like to think there's more to it than that, such as culture and coaching but  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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13 hours ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

I won't argue that Warsaw has "underwhelmed" in the past.  The whole reason I responded was in discussion about the 2017 season in which @Houndstooth_Hat asked if Warsaw would underwhelm again.  So, in speaking about the 2017 season, I answered it depends on what your expectations for this season are.  Apparently everyone else in the NLC and surrounding area believes they should win the NLC every year based on their enrollment size alone.  I'd like to think there's more to it than that, such as culture and coaching but  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Culture may have something to do with it, coaching may...and the culture of the program is the product of the coaching staff (especially if they have been the coaching staff for a while). Middle schools may have a role to play, but not sure how much. It is interesting because Warsaw "seems" to have all the tools to build a dominating program, but they fall short.

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21 hours ago, Fairfield02 said:

that gap from 2,100 to 1,800 and 1,600 is the main reason that Indiana made a class 6A, I know Warsaw is one of the smaller 6A schools, but 500 students per grade is a HUGE school

Agree with most of the post but disagree here.   A 300-500 kid gap is not the reason for 6A.   It was the gap from 4500-5000 kids (Carmel & BD) to 1500-1600 that was the reason for 6A

The gap from bottom of 5A to middle of 6A is under a thousand kids (#62 in size Martinsville 1564 up to #16 Brownsburg 2436).  That may seem like a lot, but consider the difference from #16 in size Brownsburg to #1 in size Carmel is nearly 2500 kids.  Meaning Carmel is still twice the size of the #16 school.  The reason for 6A is the size disparity of the mega schools at the top....no idea how you'd ever correct it without making a class just for the 3000+ schools.

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16 hours ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

I won't argue that Warsaw has "underwhelmed" in the past.  The whole reason I responded was in discussion about the 2017 season in which @Houndstooth_Hat asked if Warsaw would underwhelm again.  So, in speaking about the 2017 season, I answered it depends on what your expectations for this season are.  Apparently everyone else in the NLC and surrounding area believes they should win the NLC every year based on their enrollment size alone.  I'd like to think there's more to it than that, such as culture and coaching but  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I think that is the point.  It's not just enrollment and resources.  Warsaw has those.  Warsaw should be able to dominate based on all those things.  What they don't have is the culture/coaching that other smaller schools in the conference have.  Warsaw could be a sleeping giant if they got the right coach.  Changing a culture isn't easy but it can be done.  

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NLCTigerFan07 - 

Understand your statement and respect your position. I am a fan and would love to see Warsaw at a more competitive level. My whole point is that if Warsaw struggles with smaller schools, how will they ever compete with schools their same size come sectionals. Warsaw is (2-7) since 2010 come playoff time. 

To clarify for you though - Warsaw is 52-54 over the last 10 seasons. Which is why I stated they had a losing record over the past 10 seasons. Maybe it was by mistake but the reference to not having a winning season was directed at Noblesville. 

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On 1/13/2017 at 10:05 AM, backerfan said:

I saw Mr Bill Beck is officially stepping away from the Elkart Truth entirely. He will be missed. As many remember, he used to post here, it was was always a great read, whether you agreed or not. 

Good Luck Bill, you will be missed!!!!!

 

Still around, just a reader these days, though. Appreciate the kind words, too. :D

Bill B.

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20 hours ago, INDHOF03 said:

NLCTigerFan07 - 

Understand your statement and respect your position. I am a fan and would love to see Warsaw at a more competitive level. My whole point is that if Warsaw struggles with smaller schools, how will they ever compete with schools their same size come sectionals. Warsaw is (2-7) since 2010 come playoff time. 

To clarify for you though - Warsaw is 52-54 over the last 10 seasons. Which is why I stated they had a losing record over the past 10 seasons. Maybe it was by mistake but the reference to not having a winning season was directed at Noblesville. 

To play devil's advocate... Warsaw has played for 4 sectional championships in the last 10 seasons (2007, 2009, 2013, 2016) as opposed to only playing for 1 sectional championship EVER previously, and that was in 2002.  Granted, as a Tiger fan I'd argue that the 2000 second round sectional game at Penn (who went on to win the State Championship) and 2001 second round sectional game at FW Snider (who lost to Valparaiso in semi-state) where both "sectional championship" games in everything but the title.  I also realize it's now "easier" to play in a sectional championship game in 6A with only 2 rounds, but still, considering Warsaw hadn't won a postseason game EVER until 1998 season, I'd say there has been progress made for the "basketball" school :D I wholeheartedly agree that it would be nice to see them take the next step and be more competitive year in and year out for NLC and Sectional titles

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On 1/17/2017 at 4:27 PM, NLCTigerFan07 said:

Just curious how high expectations are if you think the Tigers are going to underwhelm again?  No doubt they underwhelmed this season, but next year they have a lot to replace on both sides of the ball, but especially on the offensive side with Jensen, David and the Street brothers all gone.  So I suppose it's whether or not one's expectations are that they'll compete for an NLC title or bottom of the barrel.  At this point I'd say a 4-5 or 5-4 season would be the ceiling on my expectations.  They'd have to go 2-7 next year for me to consider them "underwhelming".

warsaw won't be no good with jensen coming back this year

 

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11 hours ago, wchs tiger fan said:

warsaw won't be no good with jensen coming back this year

 

Thanks for that astute observation and profound input :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

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I'm cautiously optimistic about the Raiders chances competing for the NLC this season....hopefully Nick Hooley can stay healthy and play to his potential.  We shall see...

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Interested to see how Goshen can build upon last year, whether or not Plymouth will rebound, whether Northwood can maintain or stay close to the level they played at this year, and whether NR will rebound. 

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What teams bring back a starting QB?  I know NorthWood, Warsaw, Wawasee for sure are losing senior QBs. Goshen had two QBs play due to injuries, what grades were they?  I can't remember what grade the Concord, Memorial and Plymouth QBs were.

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Plymouth and EM have returning QB's.... Not sure on number of returning Starters for EM, but Plymouth has a very large number. Couple All state kids in Lafree and Drudge as well. 

We will still be very good, clearly lose some very quality kids on and off the field. Quick guess, NW and Plymouth game will mean allot last game of the year. 

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I expect NR to start current sophomore Julius Graber who played very well in a few games last year 

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On ‎2‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 11:22 AM, NLCTigerFan07 said:

What teams bring back a starting QB?  I know NorthWood, Warsaw, Wawasee for sure are losing senior QBs. Goshen had two QBs play due to injuries, what grades were they?  I can't remember what grade the Concord, Memorial and Plymouth QBs were.

Goshen's starters at QB were both seniors last year.

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On 2/17/2017 at 4:56 PM, Redskin7392 said:

Goshen's starters at QB were both seniors last year.

Thank you.  I knew CJ was, but wasn't sure about the kid who came in for him after his injury.

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On 2/16/2017 at 8:03 AM, GridironGuy said:

I expect NR to start current sophomore Julius Graber who played very well in a few games last year 

So what's going to happen to Holley?

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