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Titan32

How important are Freshman teams?

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On ‎4‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 9:50 AM, MarshallCounty said:

How does a good little league program like Bremen, produce 1 freshmen?  Did you see South Bend Riley's softball?  The more time goes by, the more I suspect athletics and education will separate. 

South Bend Riley

 

Mind boggling that only one is playing baseball... Not sure what Bremen freshman enrollment is for boys this year, but guessing 120 kids. If 50% are boys, only 18 of those 60 are playing a spring IHSAA sport. (15 in track, 1 golf and 1 in baseball and 1 playing rugby at Marian) There is a Lacrosse club team in Bremen so maybe a few there but very interesting and disappointing on numbers that are actually active in a spring sport. Not good for any program. Talking to another parent from SB Washington last night at the baseball game, there's concern on their part that they might not even have a baseball team next year. They don't have a JV and we have a very-limited JV - everyone dresses varsity. So I guess it's not just limited to just the small schools...

 

 

 

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On ‎4‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 7:30 PM, dave mosbey said:

Actually Heritage Hills has fielded a freshman team for years on my website I go back to 2002 and we have had a freshman team every year also I have old programs from the mid eighties and we had a freshman team back then also. Not a lot of games most years though. 

 

The 1986 program has the frosh-JV schedule listed together with 5 games listed as frosh, another 5 listed as JV and the 11th game didn't list either one so it might have been combo I have no clue because I didn't attend lower level games until the early 2000s.

 

My 1983 yearbook has a small article on the JV and Freshman teams and it said the frosh were 4-0. 

Now that I posted this I heard a rumor today  that for the first time in years Heritage Hills might not field a freshman team in 2017. Not sure if its true but that class only had 22 players last year so if they had many kids quit I could see the season being canceled.

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Posted (edited)
On ‎4‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 2:54 PM, Titan32 said:

I think the sweet spot for this question is 2A, 3A and maybe 4A.  In football my experience has been when a school can't field a freshman team....the program itself is more than likely in decline.  Also....can the same be said for baseball and basketball...or are those sports completely different animals?

 I know some schools attach some sort of prestige to a freshman playing on JV or Varsity, (I use the term playing loosely...it might mean siting the bench), particularly in basketball (even when the numbers are there for a freshman team).  It seems to me that the prestige strategy often disrupts the team dynamic or at least does nothing to improve the ability for an entire team to play together or prepare to play together down the road.

Also, how much additional development is really achieved with the move up? Or, if winning is the motivation...how many additional games are won?  In terms of baseball...if you have to have freshman to fill out your JV squad and kids who would normally be JV moving up to Varsity in 2A through 4A....I would think the odds are that program won't be a state contender anytime soon.

We all don't have the luxury of great numbers...and you do what you have to do in any of the before mentioned sports.  I guess I am curious where we all think the line falls in terms of moving freshman up because you have to....or because you want to.  And....when the numbers are bad, is that automatically a head coach problem?

 

I think it depends on a given situation regardless of class.  Obviously 1A schools don't have the enrollment for freshmen teams and more than likely many 2A schools won't either.  I would tend to think there are several larger schools who don't have successful programs that have little to no interest for football but maybe get great numbers for other sports (since you mentioned basketball and baseball).  To my knowledge, Linton has never had a freshman team in football.  So to say that not having a freshman teams indicates "a likely decline" in the program, doesn't fit with them (and add in LCC and Pioneer).  Linton has had really good football success over the past 20 years in spite of not having a freshman team.  So maybe in their case, having freshmen play at the JV/Varsity level benefits their program.  I attended a high school in Ohio that had around 1200 students.  We always had a freshman team.  The really good players (freshmen) got to dress for JV games but rarely saw the field.  The really good JV players got to dress for Varsity on Friday nights but rarely got to see the field.  It was an "honor" just to be selected to dress at the next level let alone play.  If you got in the game at all it was usually near the end and it was a HUGE deal to be on the field.  It was weird (for me) to see freshmen starting games for football in Indiana (moved here in 1995).  I wasn't used to that, but then again, it's about numbers whether you have a small enrollment or whether there is a lack of interest in the sport at the larger schools.  Just my 2 cents.

Edited by itiswhatitis

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On 6/1/2017 at 3:43 PM, dave mosbey said:

Now that I posted this I heard a rumor today  that for the first time in years Heritage Hills might not field a freshman team in 2017. Not sure if its true but that class only had 22 players last year so if they had many kids quit I could see the season being canceled.

Dave, I heard the same thing on Sunday.  No freshman team, one middle school team as supposedly there are not enough for 7th and 8th grade.  

Also, I have heard that we have dropped to about 37 on the varsity roster--can you confirm that?

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12 minutes ago, PatriotFan said:

Dave, I heard the same thing on Sunday.  No freshman team, one middle school team as supposedly there are not enough for 7th and 8th grade.  

Also, I have heard that we have dropped to about 37 on the varsity roster--can you confirm that?

You guys are pulling my leg.

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Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

You guys are pulling my leg.

Wish I was.  I had heard that several quit, but then Sunday I heard the staggering numbers.  Of course things go around, but you can't make this up.  I never imagined that this would happen.

Don't misunderstand, I think we will go .500 and finish in the top 3 of the PAC, but it could be a rough fall--to early to tell.  Who knows, we may beat the snot out of your guys with half the people!!!!  :01:

Edited by PatriotFan

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1 hour ago, PatriotFan said:

Wish I was.  I had heard that several quit, but then Sunday I heard the staggering numbers.  Of course things go around, but you can't make this up.  I never imagined that this would happen.

Don't misunderstand, I think we will go .500 and finish in the top 3 of the PAC, but it could be a rough fall--to early to tell.  Who knows, we may beat the snot out of your guys with half the people!!!!  :01:

You guys can go to Semi-State with 11 players...it's how you roll.  I just wonder what the deal is.

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22 hours ago, PatriotFan said:

Dave, I heard the same thing on Sunday.  No freshman team, one middle school team as supposedly there are not enough for 7th and 8th grade.  

Also, I have heard that we have dropped to about 37 on the varsity roster--can you confirm that?

Only rumors I heard was incoming sophomores down to 18 from 28 and might not have freshman team... If all you posted is true and we are down to 37 Varsity roster 10-12  that means we lost 12 from the incoming junior/senior classes because last season we had 13 Juniors (one was exchange student so we knew he would be gone ) and 18 sophomores ..

 

It will be interesting the final numbers but would think if the freshman season is canceled those players would be added to the JV/Varsity roster boosting the number at least to over 40.

 

But 2004 Patriots had 35 in 10-12 and beat Chatard in semi state with their roster around 100.

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1 hour ago, dave mosbey said:

Only rumors I heard was incoming sophomores down to 18 from 28 and might not have freshman team... If all you posted is true and we are down to 37 Varsity roster 10-12  that means we lost 12 from the incoming junior/senior classes because last season we had 13 Juniors (one was exchange student so we knew he would be gone ) and 18 sophomores ..

 

It will be interesting the final numbers but would think if the freshman season is canceled those players would be added to the JV/Varsity roster boosting the number at least to over 40.

 

But 2004 Patriots had 35 in 10-12 and beat Chatard in semi state with their roster around 100.

Again, all just what I heard, but yeah, you got it.  My understanding is that 8 seniors quit, which would leave 4 juniors.  

As for that 2004 team--that was one of the meanest, nastiest high school football teams I have ever seen anywhere.  I think they would have taken on the Colts and smiled during the beat down.  

We will likely be OK, it is just concerning.

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48 minutes ago, PatriotFan said:

Again, all just what I heard, but yeah, you got it.  My understanding is that 8 seniors quit, which would leave 4 juniors.  

As for that 2004 team--that was one of the meanest, nastiest high school football teams I have ever seen anywhere.  I think they would have taken on the Colts and smiled during the beat down.  

We will likely be OK, it is just concerning.

Wow if we lose 8 Seniors that would be a huge blow our senior class would be down to 5 or 6.

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1 hour ago, dave mosbey said:

Wow if we lose 8 Seniors that would be a huge blow our senior class would be down to 5 or 6.

Again, it is talk.  We shall wait for a roster and hope for the best.

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Freshman teams are critically important.  Not so much about learning Varsity schemes or winning games as they are about keeping kids involved and loving the game.

Kids can change a ton between Freshman and Senior year (or even Sophomore year).  The important thing is keeping them involved and letting them grow into the game.  

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2 hours ago, Lysander said:

Freshman teams are critically important.  Not so much about learning Varsity schemes or winning games as they are about keeping kids involved and loving the game.

Kids can change a ton between Freshman and Senior year (or even Sophomore year).  The important thing is keeping them involved and letting them grow into the game.  

Indeed and just what I told a guy the other day.  if you got a dozen kids--field them and hope there aren't any injuries....

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On 6/7/2017 at 5:20 PM, PatriotFan said:

Again, all just what I heard, but yeah, you got it.  My understanding is that 8 seniors quit, which would leave 4 juniors.  

As for that 2004 team--that was one of the meanest, nastiest high school football teams I have ever seen anywhere.  I think they would have taken on the Colts and smiled during the beat down.  

We will likely be OK, it is just concerning.

Here is what I know... from the sectional team we fielded, only two Senior to be players did not show. One is 50-50 on not coming back out ( was a off and on starter) on OL DL. Mandatory has not started yet so this could change. The other SR to be did not start any games and may have had a few plays late in the 4th qtr... so not an impact. Another Sr to be quit around the 3rd week last yr... he was expected to be a starter last yr but when that didn't happen... coupled with non football issues, he quit. So we played 2/3 of the season without him.... so not a big deal.. he certainly could have helped this yr and probably would've been a starter on one side of the line. 

 

It it is absolutely untrue that 8 Sr to be players quit. I counted 11 out there this week

 

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H Hills now has a freshman schedule listed online

http://www.hhpatriots.com/sports/fball/2017-18fr/schedule

Thu., Aug. 24 at Evansville Mater Dei 6:00 pm CST  
Thu., Aug. 31 Southridge 5:30 pm CST  
Thu., Sep. 07 at Jasper 5:30 pm CST  
Thu., Sep. 14 Boonville 6:00 pm CST  
Thu., Sep. 21 at Mt. Carmel (IL) 6:00 pm CST  
Tue., Sep. 26 at Tecumseh JV 6:00 pm CST  
Thu., Oct. 05 Princeton 6:00 pm CST  
Thu., Oct. 12 at Gibson Southern 6:00 pm CST
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2 hours ago, dave mosbey said:

H Hills now has a freshman schedule listed online

http://www.hhpatriots.com/sports/fball/2017-18fr/schedule

Thu., Aug. 24 at Evansville Mater Dei 6:00 pm CST    
Thu., Aug. 31 Southridge 5:30 pm CST    
Thu., Sep. 07 at Jasper 5:30 pm CST    
Thu., Sep. 14 Boonville 6:00 pm CST    
Thu., Sep. 21 at Mt. Carmel (IL) 6:00 pm CST    
Tue., Sep. 26 at Tecumseh JV 6:00 pm CST    
Thu., Oct. 05 Princeton 6:00 pm CST    
Thu., Oct. 12 at Gibson Southern 6:00 pm CST

AND 47 players out for varsity... plus the 20 on the frosh teams puts us back up to 67 on the roster

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These are great numbers....any word on the number of Sophomores (to be) that we have remaining?

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6 hours ago, PatriotFan said:

These are great numbers....any word on the number of Sophomores (to be) that we have remaining?

22

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Freshman football is more about keeping attrition at a minimum after middle school. It's important to keep the morale of a class together... Keep that core of 15 or so players playing together so they will have chemistry as seniors. 

Freshmen vs Sophomore scrimmages were the most intense and hard hitting practices and only occurred once a week.

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On ‎6‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 5:11 PM, PatriotFan said:

Dave, I heard the same thing on Sunday.  No freshman team, one middle school team as supposedly there are not enough for 7th and 8th grade.  

Also, I have heard that we have dropped to about 37 on the varsity roster--can you confirm that?

Not sure if it means anything but the Heritage Hills Athletic website lists both a 7th and 8th grade schedule. Only change I noticed was Tecumseh wasn't listed on the schedule.

 

 

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On 7/19/2017 at 6:57 PM, dave mosbey said:

Not sure if it means anything but the Heritage Hills Athletic website lists both a 7th and 8th grade schedule. Only change I noticed was Tecumseh wasn't listed on the schedule.

 

 

Yeah, things looking up.  My understanding is around 15 - 20 on the freshman team?  Middle schools teams...not sure on the numbers.

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I went to a 1A and our class was large compared to others. We fielded Freshmen teams during my time. Occasionally we would have to mix sophomores and freshmen, which seemed to be an awful idea if it was against another freshmen team. The sophmores weren't interested in playing down. My class as freshmen played some large school JV teams and beat them. The class below did as well but got beat. It all depends on the class. My interest is if the 6A and 5A schools field 4 teams (Varsity, JV for Jrs not seeing Varsity, JV for sophomores & top frosh, and Freshmen)?

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Some of those 6A schools have a JV team,  a C team as you would describe, and then a Freshmen A and B team.

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Evansville Memorial just canceled their Freshman game with Gibson Southern.  I can only speculate they don't have the numbers.

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Yeah, that class has been small all the way through grade school.  A few kids have dropped out and several new ones have joined, but a decision was made (rightfully IMO as a parent) that it would be better to have them join JV than to play games short-handed.   

BTW, I also heard numbers are low at a few other city schools that surprised me a little bit.  Has anyone from EVV heard anything? 

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