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Old Man High Pants

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Posts posted by Old Man High Pants

  1. I feel like the biggest issues come from the 7 on 7 tournament or 11 on 11 camps where you go against teams you don't know. Was at a 7 on 7 tournament earlier this year where players started getting chippy, which is expected, but then coaches got involved and it only escalated from there. Luckily one of the coaches called it early or it could have resulted in something worse.

    I feel like a big amplifier of these issues are social media posts. We see it all the time at these prospect camps where players do something unrealistically stupid (my favorite is the totally like a real football game unpadded 1 on 1 pass rush where the Offensive Lineman grabs and sumo throws the Defensive Linemen) followed by what I think some have referenced as a "bro coach" coming up to that player to give them some flying chest bump. You can blame it on a lot of things, social media, bro coaches, poor influence from the NFL but it's something that just makes me eye roll every time I see it.

    In my opinion these summer scrimmages are best served when the opposing coaches have a relationship and can police their players, letting them know nobody is winning anything today. If that is not the overall theme then things like what have been described are going to happen almost every time. 

    • Like 3
  2. 22 minutes ago, Frozen Tundra said:

    I was not aware Lawrenceburg and South Dearborn were switching divisions. John Harrell’s website still shows them in the 3A Division and 4A Division respectfully. Thanks for the info. I definitely like that split much better.

    I was wondering if East Central would ever go independent in football. If the EIAC keeps the divisional split then I think they’re happy to stay. If the EIAC went back to doing away with divisions and making everyone play each other then I think that would force East Central to go independent. They want that competition and they don’t get it by playing the other seven EIAC schools. The divisional split suits them much better.

    Yeah John Harrell hasn't been updated yet with it. The problem with the division split is who will eventually be the Big Division. Connersville will be the second biggest schools for some time and gives them no competition, it's a waist of time for both of them. At some point Franklin County will drop to the small division bringing Greensburg up, who they don't play anymore because both schools decided it was best for them both not to. That leaves Lawrenceburg who isn't really competitive against them. Lawrenceburg has improved greatly under Coach Knigga but Lawrenceburg has gone from losing by 50 to losing by 25.

    A decade ago when the conference was set up this way there were a lot of people who wanted East Central to be completely in or completely out. I think that mentality has changed and if it were revisited most people would be more than happy for them to be independent in football.

    24 minutes ago, DT said:

    Would EC ever consider joining an Ohio Conference?  

    No 

  3. 6 hours ago, Frozen Tundra said:

    Unfortunately, I don’t have an article to provide as evidence and I can’t remember if I read about it or if I was told about it. However, when Jennings County, Madison, Seymour, and Columbus East started looking into leaving the HHC six years ago, Jennings County and Madison were looking into going to the EIAC. The EIAC wasn’t interested though because they liked their eight team, two division format. They liked having that perfect split with four teams in the 4A division and four teams in the 3A division.

    Having said that, I’m curious what the EIAC thinks these days. The previous classification cycle saw Franklin County move down to 3A. The newest classification cycle has South Dearborn also moving down to 3A. Therefore, East Central and Connersville are the only remaining 4A members in the EIAC. The divisions are still the same, however, and are still labeled as the 3A Division and the 4A Division. I wonder if that will ever change. Personally, I’d like to see them return to no divisions and a round-robin schedule. I don’t think East Central would go for it though. I think they like having the freedom to schedule Ohio schools and Indy privates.

    I also remember Jennings County & Madison being thrown out there. If it were the only option I would definitely take Madison & Jennings County over Connersville & Rushville but at this point I don't see the EIAC expanding any further unless those two were to leave. I'll beat a dead horse and say the conference should go back to 6 but who knows.

    The conference these days is a mess. Technically it was never set up as a 4A / 3A conference but a Big School / Small School conference. The 4A / 3A I believe was just easier to say, or market? The divisions will change this year with East Central, Connersville, Franklin County & Lawrenceburg being the Big Division. Greensburg, Batesville, South Dearborn & Rushville will be the Small Division. It's all so dumb, it'll be interesting once Franklin County drops to the Small School division forcing Greensburg back into the Big School division since Greensburg & East Central decided not to play anymore.

    1 hour ago, Impartial_Observer said:

    I think the breakout was instigated by a couple of idiot board members in Seymour. They tasked Seymour’s AD at the time to find another conference. Because geography plays a fairly important part, they could get five schools and really needed to get to six to have a viable option. BNL, Seymour, East, JC, and Madison. South Dearborn was the chosen one, but they had no interest in leaving the EIAC. 
    Hindsight being 20/20 Lawrenceburg may have been the better option, not sure they would leave the EIAC either. Huge natural rivals and they compete pretty well across the board in the EIAC. 

    I don't think you'll ever see South Dearborn, Lawrenceburg, East Central, Greensburg, or Batesville leave the EIAC. It's a great conference for all the athletic departments as a whole. Could East Central go fully independent in football? I know a lot of people would prefer that and I'd say fat chance but now that USC is going to be in the Big 10 never say never.

    I could eventually see Franklin County moving to another conference in the distant future. Brookville isn't going to grow while all the schools around them in the conference keep getting bigger. If they were to ever to drop down to 2A I could see them going to the TEC. But that's a long way away if ever.

    Connersville & Rushville could leave tomorrow and I wouldn't be surprised. I think it's going to depend on some other Indianapolis area conferences though. There's been talk for a long time that Connersville & Rushville could join Richmond, Muncie Central & Anderson leaving the North Central with some Hoosier Heritage like New Castle, Delta & Yorktown. With Centerville moving up to 3A now I think that becomes even more of a viable league. 

  4. 10 hours ago, DT said:

    How do you handle practice 4 days a week when there is so much travel involved?

    All of the schools I've listed are within twenty minutes of each other. I'm an East Central graduate, lived almost in Ohio, drove 25 minutes everyday to get to school, some of my teammates had further drives. Not asking anyone to make hour long commutes.

    That and most of the schools I mention consolidating are in the same county. How do kids in Rush County all make it to Rushville High School? How do all the kids in Franklin County make it to Franklin County High School? How do all of the kids in Jennings County make it to Jennings County High School? 

    • Like 3
  5. On 6/19/2022 at 7:17 PM, DT said:

    Many choose to ignore the facts and refuse to admit that the sport is contracting and in decline.

    The attached statistical analysis provides hard evidence to the contrary.

    Given these approaching headwinds, does it not make sense for fringe high school football programs to reassess their priorities and determine if plowing ahead against the current trends is truly in the best interests of all stakeholders ?

    Do schools which struggle to find enough bodies to practice really feel the situation is going to get any better given the overall direction of national trends?

    Indiana high schools and prep football fans would be better served with 260 healthy football programs, instead of 320 where 20 % of them struggle to survive from week to week.

     

     

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerpielke/2020/01/28/the-decline-of-football-is-real-and-its-accelerating/?sh=688541fd2f37

     

     

    I'll repost here for those that didn't see it on the other contraction thread DT started 

    Consolidation not Contraction

    I know in the southeastern part of the state there are quite a few football programs that would benefit from this. Now I know school corporations make decisions based on a thousand other things then athletic programs but some of these smaller schools that are still out there I think would benefit from either consolidating with other small schools or a big school.

    I think a great example of this would be the schools in Decatur County. Currently those include Greensburg, North Decatur & South Decatur. These are three schools that are all within a 20 minute drive of each other (Greensburg & North Decatur are literally on the opposite sides of 74).

    According to the last enrollment numbers if all three of these schools combined they would have a student population of 1,278. This would make "Decatur County High School" a lot more competitive as a 4A school, maybe even a good team to play with Greensburg conference opponent East Central. In recent years South Decatur has had number issues and both North & South have had conference issues.

    Other schools in southeastern Indiana that could benefit from this:

    Milan + South Ripley + Jac-Cen-Del = "Ripley County High School" with 950 kids (South Ripley & Jac-Cen-Del do not have football teams)

    Madison + Southwestern Hanover = "Jefferson County High School" with 1,114 kids (Southwestern Hanover doesn't have a football team)

    Connersville + Union County = "Fayette-Union High School" with 1,374 kids

    Switzerland County + Rising Sun = "Switz-Ohio High School" with 657 kids (Rising Sun doesn't have a football team)

    Personally I think consolidation has a lot of benefits when it comes to the actual classroom and educational experience a student has. Small school generally means small resources. But when it comes to all the problems DT/HHF talks about I think this could be an answer. It creates schools with large enough enrollments to field football teams and gives even more kids opportunity to play football.

    I don't have enough knowledge about other parts of the state but I'm sure there are similar situations across the state.

  6. On 6/19/2022 at 5:47 PM, Bobref said:

    So, you think the mercy rule is a good idea, but it should be extended to the first half?

    Yes, mercy rule is a great idea, but we shouldn't have to wait till the second half to start it. Doesn't matter to me if we keep it at 35 points, make it 42 or 49. 

    On 6/19/2022 at 10:06 PM, foxbat said:

    OK, we gotta give folks time to at least get home before having to run back to the stadium to pick up the kids.  We had gotten used to dropping the kids off at the football game, then going to eat, then going to pick the kids up after dinner.  I recall the first time that Jeff hit that mercy rule with someone.  We'd just ordered and the kids texted and said, "Second half just started and they said something about a running clock."  My wife asked what that was and I said, "We've got 24 minutes to have Applebee's cook it, we eat it, and we get back to Jeff before the kids start lighting up the chat with 'Where are you?"  If we go to first half, we won't have time to make it through the Taco Bell line on some games. 🙂

    Although this is a great argument to go back to no mercy rule.

    • Thanks 1
  7. 2 hours ago, Bobref said:

    I’m saying they often check out of a lopsided game whether there’s a mercy rule or not.

    We're in agreement on that. More of a reason to get games moving when it's 35-0 at the start of the second quarter and you have to get through another regular timed 12 minutes.

  8. On 6/17/2022 at 7:09 PM, Bobref said:

    So, coaches and players don’t mentally check out, and fans don’t leave early, when it’s 35-0 at halftime? I beg to differ.

    I'm saying they do these things when it's 35-0 at half and there's a running clock, are you saying they don't? I'm confused.

  9. On 6/17/2022 at 6:12 PM, DT said:

    And Im the guy with the bad ideas.  LOL.  

    At least my bad ideas are ways to reallocate money while getting more kids involved with football then taking it away from them.

    21 hours ago, MarshallCounty said:

    I think you have a better shot of selling a catsup flavored popsicle to a lady in white gloves than you would have asking a few of those communities give up their local schools. 

    I know it will never happen, but honestly having some of those schools still open is a waist of money and resources. Just looking at Decatur county, it employs 2 superintendents, 3 principals, 3 assistant principals, 3 athletic directors. That's a lot of administrative pay for one county with fewer than 1,300 students. And I'm not trying to bad mouth any of the supers, principals, or ADs, I'm sure they all do a great job.

    Additionally think about the money spent on keeping all three of those high schools running with annual building & grounds maintenance, heating & AC, basic utilities, etc. Again a lot of money that could be spent for athletics or other extra curriculars that would enrich the high school experiences of students. 

    Pipe dream . . . yeah, but still makes fiscal sense. 

  10. Ok so I know that DT/HHF brings up contraction every chance he gets. In very, very few cases I believe he makes some good points. But there is another "C" word that I believe would be more of a beneficial talk, consolidation.

    I know in the southeastern part of the state there are quite a few football programs that would benefit from this. Now I know school corporations make decisions based on a thousand other things then athletic programs but some of these smaller schools that are still out there I think would benefit from either consolidating with other small schools or a big school.

    I think a great example of this would be the schools in Decatur County. Currently those include Greensburg, North Decatur & South Decatur. These are three schools that are all within a 20 minute drive of each other (Greensburg & North Decatur are literally on the opposite sides of 74).

    According to the last enrollment numbers if all three of these schools combined they would have a student population of 1,278. This would make "Decatur County High School" a lot more competitive as a 4A school, maybe even a good team to play with Greensburg conference opponent East Central. In recent years South Decatur has had number issues and both North & South have had conference issues.

    Other schools in southeastern Indiana that could benefit from this:

    Milan + South Ripley + Jac-Cen-Del = "Ripley County High School" with 950 kids (South Ripley & Jac-Cen-Del do not have football teams)

    Madison + Southwestern Hanover = "Jefferson County High School" with 1,114 kids (Southwestern Hanover doesn't have a football team)

    Connersville + Union County = "Fayette-Union High School" with 1,374 kids

    Switzerland County + Rising Sun = "Switz-Ohio High School" with 657 kids (Rising Sun doesn't have a football team)

    Personally I think consolidation has a lot of benefits when it comes to the actual classroom and educational experience a student has. Small school generally means small resources. But when it comes to all the problems DT/HHF talks about I think this could be an answer. It creates schools with large enough enrollments to field football teams and gives even more kids opportunity to play football.

    I don't have enough knowledge about other parts of the state but I'm sure there are similar situations across the state.

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1
  11. 2 hours ago, BDGiant93 said:

    What's the incentive for a scout team guy to keep getting his head knocked in during practice? The chance to play in a varsity game under the lights on a Friday night. 

    Which like I said before turns into nothing but a glorified JV game. Playing on Friday night doesn't mean anything when everyone is trying to get the game over as quickly as possible, coaches & players are mentally checking out, and fans are emptying the stands. 

  12. 1 hour ago, Bash Riprock said:

    I respect various opinions and see both sides.

    I have a very different perspective on the reps impact.  Many years ago, had a son that was a soph on a 5A state championship team.  Because they were very good and opened up leads sometimes pretty quickly, he got tons of experience getting friday night reps in the 2nd half against starting lineups and second string players.  There is no doubt that experience helped him prepare to be a 2 years starter for that program his junior and senior years.  Playing against freshman and other sophs during Saturday's JV game did not offer that caliber of experience.  Was it essential?  Perhaps not, as the majority of his development came in practice against older state championship caliber players.  But was it a plus for his development beyond playing JV ball?  Absolutely.

    I guess I am old school and during my days, played on both ends of wide score margins.  I survived and wasn't harmed long term to experience some beat downs.  We all know life itself will offer some beat downs, and calling time out or simply ending it early isn't always or even typically an option.  

    I thought your 10 run rule in baseball was a good comment....but unless things have changed, I believe both teams still have to play 5 full innings.

    I can respect this side of the argument as well. Totally understand this perspective and used to 100% agree. But on the teams I've been involved with when we were on the winning side of the mercy rule we immediately subbed down, which is something I think you'll start to see more of as the rule continues. Honestly now I think it's a bad look if you get to the mercy rule and don't start to sub down. 

    I don't think I'd ever be in favor of a "run rule" for football like baseball. Still think you should finish out the game. 

    • Like 1
  13. 4 hours ago, crimsonace1 said:

    Remember, you're getting reps for guys, too. A team that has a lot of mercy-rule games won't get a ton of Friday-night reps - and a struggling team needs those reps to get better (while a good team may need them to fine-tune some things).

    If you're going to invoke it in the first half, then the points threshold needs to be something like 42 or 49 points. 

    The mercy rule basically means each team gets one possession (maybe two) once it's invoked. I'm fine with the way it's used. It provides an opportunity to get the games over quicker while still allowing players to get a reasonable number of snaps on each side of the ball. 

    I don't buy into the reps thing. I've been on both sides of the mercy rule. The winning team is hoping to get the game over without getting any of their guys injured and the losing team is just wanting to get out of there. Most teams sub down anyways once it starts, that's what JV & Frosh games are for.

    A team getting mercy ruled multiple games who wants more Friday night reps is a team that needs to get more reps in the off season so that it doesn't happen. Never hear the argument that baseball teams getting 10 run ruled are losing at bats.

    I don't care what the point total is but there are still too many games ending in 50 plus, 60 plus, 70 plus win margins to not get it going in the first half.

    • Like 3
  14. I was sitting in the stands for a game last season where parents of players on the winning team were literally yelling at their own sons to fall down so they wouldn't score again so quickly! The current rule should be expanded to any time in the game. I don't think I've ever seen a team down by 35 come back and win it. 

    If we're trying to end blowouts quicker there's no reason to wait. Lawrenceburg beat Rushville 91-12 last year! And that's not even the game I was referencing above. If you want to make it 42 instead of 35 doesn't matter to me. But we need it in the first half.

     

    • Like 1
  15. 2 hours ago, crimsonace1 said:

    *-Shelbyville - I figure it's a matter of when, not if, the Golden Bears go to the EIAC. 

    This won't happen. 

    1 hour ago, crimsonace1 said:

    Connersville & Rushville fit well geographically and school-wise in the EIAC. There's really no place else for either to go. 

    Connersville & Rushville are a terrible fit for the EIAC, geographically & otherwise. 

  16. 18 hours ago, Frozen Tundra said:

    Because the feeling is that if he doesn’t have the time and ability to coach at Jennings County then he shouldn’t have the time and ability to coach elsewhere. Basically, I think the real issue at the root of the problem is that people here are burnt out from having so many different football coaches. This will be the sixth different football coach in 11 seasons and the indecision of Vasilchek only exacerbated it.

    I understand the frustration of a high turnover rate but there's a big difference between being a head coach and a coordinator. Now if he left to be the head coach at another school in the area, I could understand being like "ok guy", but he's demoting himself. Not something a lot of coaches who want to climb the ladder are up for.

    And a HUGE difference living an hour away from the help your daughter needs. Coach Sharp is making an adult decision, if people can't see that they need to get over themselves. 

    As far as the hiring of this coach, I think it's a huge gaffe for the administration. Making the decision to hire a guy from the literal other side of the country? Plus one who didn't seem to be anywhere for the long haul (like most coaches). Not a smart move, especially if you're worried about the turnover rate of head football coaches. 

  17. 9 hours ago, Frozen Tundra said:

     

    And to add insult to injury, the previous head coach (Justun Sharp) took a defensive coordinator position at Guerin Catholic for next year. He’s the guy who quit coaching Jennings County after two years because of his young daughter’s health. 

    Granted, Sharp was taking his daughter to her appointments in Indy and I believe he and his family just moved back up there. So while it makes sense for him to take the job given the circumstances, it was still seen as a slap in the face by some folks around here.

    Not sure how that can be seen by them as a slap in the face?

    A father trying to build a historically bad program and driving 2 hours to get his daughter to the doctors she needs decides to take a lesser role at a program that's practically in the city his daughter's doctors are in, sounds like a guy being a good dad.

    • Like 1
  18. 1 hour ago, RetiredCoach91 said:

    Jennings County listed on IHSAA Job Postings again, with 4/28 date stamp. So I would guess the out of state coach backed out again. Feel for the kids, having a coach back out twice before ever getting to campus. Maybe they have other candidates they interviewed that may still be interested. 

    True Story Behind the 2016 Election Dumpster Fire GIF

  19. 1 hour ago, Lysander said:

    I’ve said it for years but 4A “was” most years consistently the best class pound for pound.  With that, its best teams have generally gone on to consistently be the dominant players in 5A and, on occasion, break into 6A…which has watered down 4A from its prior glory.

    4A was a meat grinder prior to the success factor. 

  20. 2 hours ago, 812 Observer said:

    If EC was to change conferences would the rest of their sports follow? I think that's the reason they haven't left yet. The other EIAC schools are competitive if not better than EC in other sports. I think the out of conference schedule is working well for them now. More times than not they make a deep playoff run in football. 

    East Central will never fully leave the conference and I don't think they should. Outside of football mostly every other sport is competitive. 

    • Like 1
  21. 5 hours ago, Lysander said:

    I actually just wrote 5 paragraphs explaining why EC should bail on the EIAC and apply for entrance to the Circle City Conference and just now deleted them.

    It seemed so obvious after writing it that I was embarrassed having written a case for it at all.

    "Res Ipsa Loquitur"....or somesuch that they mentioned to us back in law school.

    In any event, if my wonderful 9th grade hoops coach Kim Simonson...and East Central Hall of Famer...and erstwhile EC Principal was still in charge I'd make the Pitch to him myself.  

    Circle City seems like a bit of a drive but there are a couple conferences over in Cincinnati that I think they'd be a great fit for. But if you think that has a chance of happening I also have a bridge to sell you.

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