US31

18 hours ago, BTF said:

That would mean 16 of 32 (possible). Furthermore, mid pack "at best" would imply 16-24 (hardly). I've got Carroll in that 8-12 range. We'll never know. What we do know is that four through sixteen is a crapshoot. Carroll had a good football team. They could beat anyone not named Brownsburg, Ben Davis, or Center Grove on any given night. Unfortunately though, they'll be remembered for the Warsaw game and not the battles they had with Snider, Hamilton Southeastern, and Warren Central. 

I had to check this....Sagarin had Carroll at 17 of 32 at end of last year.  (Interestingly, they had Warsaw at 19).

On 4/13/2024 at 10:50 AM, BTF said:

Warsaw waxed one of 6A's better teams last year. The potential is there. I personally don't see Jeff "steamrolling" them. They're a lot like Mishawaka. Bring your A game, or you're done. 

I'm an NLC homer and always want them to do well....but is this a reference to Warsaw beating Carroll?  Carroll was mid pack 6A at best last season.

I'm shocked by how much of the vote was against this. Over 70% against??

I'm curious if the IFCA proposal would have been so modest as to just be to "seed #1 and #2 in each 6A sectional" (which are only 4 teams to begin with)....would that have gotten more support than 70%+ against?

I've said it for football, looks like its more ture in Bball....

There should be no P/P in 1A

2 hours ago, WestfieldRocks said:

In Westfield's case, more likely a Freshman Center, such as Carmel and Zionsville have. I've heard that the HSE split in 2006 caused division in the community and that Westfield wants to avoid that. Then again, I've heard from someone that should know that the current super wants a second high school. I suppose time will tell.

There are discussions about a 3rd high school in the the SE corner of the county.  I have no idea how serious those are or if its likely to happen.  Geographically it would seem a 3rd school would probably have to be up near Lapel, off of 32 or 38...not much open land anywhere else.  HSE currently has 4 junior high schools, so how those would spread between  3 high schools would be interesing (unless the plan was to also add some Jr high schools or restrucure what they do with grades 5-8.)

Interesting thought problem about Indy Metro athletic confernces....If HSE and Westfield add another high school each in the next decade.....how will that change HCC/MIC/etc?

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=197NFgLcxNzY2NbagYL5uavc3RsRmrmiJ&scrlybrkr=180f3c06&ll=40.015709144062015%2C-85.9691205&z=12

22 hours ago, Boilernation said:

I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up capping out around 3,500 in the future. 

There is a demographic study on Westfield's website.....it projects 3900 in 33-34...slide 18

https://www.wws.k12.in.us/about-us/destination-westfield

9 minutes ago, CoachMack219 said:

This would make me think that maybe Coach Gilbert was possibly the teacher in the weight room and the other fella (Strength Coach) the aide. Would make sense that a school THAT GOOD would spend $200,000 on their strength program and student-athlete growth/ development. Almost like that stuff matters.  

Tavio Henson is the primary Strength Coach at Westifeld.  He is one of the best in the state at what he does, for all sports.  You will see him on the sidelines for football games as well as the bench at basketball games.  

2 hours ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

I saw that Penn was still like top 5 or 6 largest school in Indiana. That is still bigger than most Indy schools.  This isn't a size issue that has defeated Penn. It was complacency and at time the lack of buy in from the players. 3 of the last 5 years, on the field and sidelines you could tell, NO ONE seemed to care. Coaches wouldn't do anything and the players were stone cold silent. The D would ball out for three quarters and then get torched in the fourth because the O did not know how to sustain a drive. O-lineman would come to the bench and just sit there, no one would challenge one another. That changed two seasons ago and carried into last season. This past senior class cared and it showed. Players would hold each other accountable on the sideline. 

I am not saying yelling determines passion, but when things are not going well or things are hard, and no one says a word...that scares me.

I'm not disagreeing with you....but at least last cycle, Penn was near the bottom of the top ten (8 or 9th?)...but there are about 15 schools within a few hundred students over or under Penn.  I don't think that was the case back in the 80's & 90's....maybe I'm wrong. 

If I am...may there be no yellow moons in my next bowl of Lucky Charms.

When Penn was part of the elite...they were at the top of enrollment.  No one was their size save a few MIC schools (e.g. Carmel, BD).

Growth around Indy has outpaced Granger....Penn is a very middle of the pack Indy Metro school now.  I'm obviosly biased....but there a few OC/DC's at those Indy metro schools that would be an excellent choice for a program that wants to beat those same types of schools.  

And "No", I have no specific knowledge of any particular person applying for the Penn job.

1 minute ago, Bobref said:

Notre Dame has held to a particular set of values for over 180 years. Any practice, of any type, that is inconsistent with those values is a nonstarter. They will win their way, or they won’t win … and every true Notre Dame person is fine with that. Believe it or not, the University is bigger than any sport, TV contract, or national championship.

I have no argument with that....

What I will argue with, however, is if Coach Freeman is let go for "not winning the big one"...even though he is graduating players at a very high rate.  There have been a lot of good coaches shown the door at ND since Lou.  Willingham, Weiss, and Kelly were good coaches....(I know Kelly left more or less on his terms, but his frustrations with the above discussion were well known, and were what lead him to leave...his goals are a National Champtionship.)

Again, I'm not disagreeing with anything you or other posters have said.  Just pointing out that players and coaches who have realistic aspirations of winning a national title are likely to avoid ND.  Players in the program may have changing priorites and choose to leave.   This is the reality.

It would be interesting if the B1G, SEC, and Big12 choose to leave the NCAA in their dust and go completley separate in FB and MBB.  Would ND choose to be the torchbearer in going back to a more traditional college athletics model...along with the leftovers of Div1?  

Or do they want the money just as bad as everyone else?

On 2/23/2024 at 4:05 PM, BTF said:

My vote is for Notre Dame to not sell their soul to the devil. Getting to a high profile bowl game with a bunch of smart kids should suffice. 

I'm not saying its not the proper moral or ethical choice....but do admit you are not using full resources allotted to you by the current rulebook is to say you aren't really trying to win a national championship.

Do you think all of the coaches/players are going to be comfortable with "getting to a high profile bowl game with a bunch of smart kids"...or to they maybe want to be in position to actually win a national championship?  Which Notre Dame is fully capable of doing if they utilize the resources they have along with the current NIL and Transfer rules.  I suggest a lot of quality coaches would like to be at a place they can really win....some players may realize that ND is not actually playing to win and head for more competitive pastures.  

I'm not saying either choice is good or bad...but a poster had asked about ND using the transfer portal.  They really aren't compared to the other top programs.  And to use your quote....ND appears to be happy getting to a nice bowl with smart kids.

On 1/13/2024 at 12:27 PM, Whiting89 said:

Out of curiosity can ND get anyone out of transfer portal or do they still have to meet some academic criteria?

In theory...maybe.  In practice, No.

One of the primary reasons that, while the Holy fathers "say" they are a premier national program, all they are really trying to be is the best version of the Standfords and Northwesterns.  If you want to beat B1G and SEC premier teams...you need to recruit and accept the same players they are recruiting and accepting.

I love it

My guess is Columbus North, Bloom South, Bloom North, Southport....will end up in an "HCC South" conference within 10 years.

Members might include CG, Col North, BS, BN, Southport...

...maybe they pluck a few current HCC/MIC schools

Can't edit...the 5A (with 64ish) is Valpo thru NEW HAVEN....

"NW" is my fat thumb typo.  Should have been NH

Using WCGrad92's numbers above,  here is the disparity in schools size in the current split (6A & 5A 32 teams):

6A

• Carmel 5200
• Jeffersonville 2141

Carmel is 2.43 times bigger (Not much you can do about this, the top 16"ish" schools are just way bigger than the rest)

5A

• Valpo 2140
• FWNS 1460

Valpo is 1.47 times bigger

4A

• FWSS 1459 (anyone else find it interesting SS & NS are only 1 kid apart?)
• Wash 810

FWSS is 1.8 times bigger

3A

• Guerin 800
• Benton Central 513

GC is 1.56 times bigger

2A

• North Mont 513
• Busco 378

NM is 1.36 times bigger

1A (with 64ish teams)

• East Hancock 377
• Attica 160

EH is 2.36 times bigger (much larger disparity than any class but 6A...and I would agrue that effect is aggravated due to the smaller school size)

OR

1A (with 32)

• Cov 281
• Attica 177

Cov is 1.77 times bigger (very similar to what we get in the middle of the curve)

BTW a 64 class 5A (as WCGRad92 has above)

• Valpo 2140
• NW 1068

Valpo is ~2 times bigger

There are a few VERY good coordinators in the Indy area with Northern Indiana connections

44 minutes ago, foxbat said:

I watched Faith Christian take a 80-2 beating at the hands of Indiana School for the Deaf in 8-on-8 last season.  That should be the poster child citing for not having an automatic banishment from 1A if you are a p/p school.  If they get better, SF will take care of it.

I'm just sharing my opinion....some people will disagree.  I would suggest 8 man matchups probably aren't the best analogy to 11 man 1A football.

The reason I have my opinion is a desire to prevent the yo-yo effect that has occurred in larger classes from affecting 32 smallest 1A.  Especially as IHSAA has chosen to increase the point threshold for "staying up".

Looks like some p/p folks don't agree with me....they are free to do so and I'd still drink beer with them.🍻

23 minutes ago, tango said:

Why? The success factor is in place for a reason. Why punish a p/p school that hasn't had success?  

Punish is your word....not mine.😁

18 hours ago, WCGrad92 said:

This is what 1A would look like Last 32
and for reference, without Success Factor, Lutheran would still be in 1A at 267

Which is why a smallest 32 1A should also prohibit any P/P schols

2 hours ago, Bobref said:

The editor timed out before I finished.

A player who lines up and is neither a back nor a lineman, if he is not the QB, causes the formation to be illegal under 7-2-3. He can’t legally go downfield on a pass, he’s not an eligible receiver, he can’t legally touch a forward pass, and he can’t be in motion at the snap unless he fulfills the requirements of 7-2-7.

All of these are fouls. All routinely occur when the wingback lines up too close to the LOS. All are routinely ignored. Until now? Stay tuned.

@US31 does that answer your question?

Much appreciated!!

On 2/9/2024 at 12:00 PM, Bobref said:

There is a new Point of Emphasis on illegal formations. Depending on the guidance we get from the IHSAA on exactly what they want enforced, that could get sticky.

From a coaches perspective....I'm honestly curious about this statement, and what things you think would be "sticky".  First thing that comes to my mind would be OL not lined up on the LOS...or too many WR off the LOS.  But that may not be what you are referring to...

Would love to hear you elaborate👍

1A and 6A should be 32.  Divide 2A-4A up "evenly", handout the byes as you see fit.

My 2 cents😜

36 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

If you would say most coaches don't want to drive to 2 schools located on the south side, I would buy that.  But they already do it for FC.  With I-69 to be open late 2024, they will speed up things big time.  Can be at the HS school very quick off the 144 exit and the new access road connecting into Stones Crossing Rd.

Perhaps soon when Whiteland becomes 6A (and my guess eventually Franklin), that will lead to a new conference.  But its beyond unfortunate what CG is being forced to do in order to get a full schedule for football....and the additional impacts on the CG middle schools for football.  Funny how it doesn't seem to impact the other sports, that also play on week nights......

Perhaps if Coach West builds a top program at FC, the Flashes will find themselves looking for a new home......

I don't disagree with much anything you've said.  I'm just communicating what I hear from HCC perspective.

I also agree there will be change in conference alignment in the not so distant future, I've predicted before (and still feel this way)...I think we will see a realignment of MIC/HCC schools into a "North side" and a "South side" conference.  Particularly with the rise of schools like you have mentioned.

Only thing I would add is that the problems the MIC has went through aren't necessarily the HCC's to solve.  

My post above was specific to CG because that was the topic.  But I'll elaborate on Carmel, since I'm sure I've made these comments before elsewhere on this forum.  Caveat....I'm not a voting admin, and I'm also not saying the decision was right or wrong....but from discussions with several HCC coaches in a variety of sports....the reasons CG and Carmel were voted "no" were very differnet.  The short version....

Enough HCC schools didn't want a 5000+ school in their conference (espcially if it was already in their sectional).  You can guess for yourself which sports felt most strongly about this.

Enough HCC schools didn't want to drive almost all the way to Bargersville on week nights.  Again, it wasn't so long ago many of the HCC admin's decided Lafayette was too far and too often.

Personally I feel CG and Carmel would be great fits for the HCC in football.  But our contests are on Friday/Saturdays.  I don't feel its my place to tell coaches of the other sports with many weeknight contests, or in sports up against Carmel juggernaught teams, that they voted wrong.

Theoretically, if HCC went back to floating non-con weeks...most HCC schools that wanted to would be able to schedule one or maybe both of those teams in footbball right away.