BTF

On 2/15/2024 at 4:33 PM, Gipper said:

I'd love to see Pitt in the league. but still contend ND is a pipe dream at best.  Syracuse is a much more viable option, but if the B1G is to raid the ACC, I'd rather see them add North Carolina and Virginia

It's just a matter of time. I'll say 2-4 years. 

46 minutes ago, WestfieldRocks said:

In Westfield's case, more likely a Freshman Center, such as Carmel and Zionsville have. I've heard that the HSE split in 2006 caused division in the community and that Westfield wants to avoid that. Then again, I've heard from someone that should know that the current super wants a second high school. I suppose time will tell.

I'm all in for a second high school. More opportunities for kids. Think about it, double the number of kids playing in all athletics. I think these large mega schools are a disservice to the community. 

11 hours ago, Bobref said:

I mean, if it’s really “all about the kids,” 

When it comes to athletics, we all know that it's not "all about the kids" in most cases (yes, there are outliers). It's all about the egos. Anyone who thinks differently is just kidding themselves. 

20 minutes ago, temptation said:

Highly….unlikely.

They are not shy about wanting to become the next Carmel.

Which sport will they win 20+ state championships in a row? Carmel lays claim to swimming. 

6 hours ago, temptation said:

Spoiler alert:  It's not just Westfield. 

Another spoiler alert. Even worse, some people get paid a lot more to throw a ball in a little hoop. 

7 minutes ago, CoachMack219 said:

This would make me think that maybe Coach Gilbert was possibly the teacher in the weight room and the other fella (Strength Coach) the aide. Would make sense that a school THAT GOOD would spend $200,000 on their strength program and student-athlete growth/ development. Almost like that stuff matters.  

Do athletic revenues justify these salaries or is it more of a tax burden? And I don't mean "burden" in a bad way. I don't think you can put a price tag on the development of young people. 

2 hours ago, FridayNightLights said:

Gilbert

Jacob

A

Hamilton

Westfield-Washington School Corporation

High School Teachers

$118,760.03

2023

 

Hart

John

V

Hendricks

Brownsburg Community School Corporation

Teacher

$124,821.37

2023

I think I found my answer in what constitutes a Top 5 job. That excludes any team from FWCS being in the Top 100. 

33 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Didn’t I see that one of his assistants already has the job? My impression of Westfield is that one of the reasons for their execution and discipline is a great staff from top to bottom.

Could very well be. We'd all be naive to think that a head coach is a one man show in any sport. I guess we'll know the answer in a few years. I could name a few programs (but I don't care to) who had great coaches leave the program, but the next man up didn't maintain the same level of play. 

For now, I'll just stick to "kudos to Coach Gilbert for building one of the top 'pound for pound' programs in the state." And "good luck to the new coach."

1 minute ago, temptation said:

I know you may view this as me being some sort of hater but my admiration for Carroll, specifically is well-documented on this very website.  But eventually (and maybe its already happening) Carroll is going to get bored as they are trending in the opposite direction as the majority of their conference.  Hence, part of the reason they are scheduling Indy schools?  You'd know more than me.

Westfield does not have to travel more than 45-60 minutes from its own 50-yard line and can play heavyweights on a weekly basis, which is an extension of my #4.

I don't think you're a hater of schools outside of Indy. I think you genuinely welcome the outside competition as a fan. I don't see Carroll getting bored anytime soon. Schools like Snider, Homestead, and Dwenger (the Saints won't be down forever) fill three pretty good slots. Add two Indy schools, the remaining four games will be a combination of "rest" games (Northrop) and the occasional barn burner (Luers, North Side, Wayne, or Concordia). I honestly think Carroll is in a near perfect situation. 

I would agree that Westfield's conference separates them from many of the others I mentioned. I didn't think of that. 

Just now, temptation said:

He left for a college job man, hardly a lateral move.

Not sure what you're getting at, I don't recall saying leaving Westfield for Wabash was a lateral move. What am I missing?

2 minutes ago, temptation said:

1.  Money, great SES, two parent households, etc.

2.  One of, if not THE fastest growing area of population in the state.

3.  Facilities are top notch.

4.  Best conference in Indiana FORCES them to stay competitive (a rising tide raises all boats).

5.  Recent state championship appearance/success that can be sold as a cultural piece to the current crop of student athletes.

 

Just my opinion.

Your #4 gave me the answer I was looking for. 

3 minutes ago, Bobref said:

My 2 cents:

I first saw Westfield when they came up to play Merrillville in the semistate in November, 2020. Before the game even started, I knew Merrillville was in trouble. Even in the pregame, you could see Westfield was extremely well-organized and disciplined. And that’s the way they played. Not extraordinarily athletic, but no missed assignments, no bad body language, no stupid penalties. Their sideline ran as smoothly as I’ve ever seen in a great big game on the road. In that regard, I felt they were comparable to Center Grove. In my view, these are the signs of a very well-coached team: discipline and execution. In the times I’ve seen them after that, same thing.

 

I think that speaks volumes about their coach, but he's no longer there. What makes Westfield a Top 5 job for the new coach? Are you speaking of culture?  Carroll (Fort Wayne) for instance. Great facilities, great community, growing community. I have no clue about their pay structure, although I'm sure it's better than FWCS. I'm presuming Westfield boasts those things as well. Maybe the position is well compensated? 

2 hours ago, temptation said:

Top 5 job in Indiana...maybe better.

What separates Westfield from Carroll, Homestead, Fishers, Carmel, HSE, Zionsville, Brownsburg, Center Grove, Avon, Penn, Ben Davis, etc? Legitimate question. I'm counting 10-15 schools that are right up there. What makes them Top 5?

I know some posters don't like "pound for pound," but Gilbert's teams were right up there with the best. Good luck to the new coach. 

4 hours ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

Under Gees it was always about the man to your right and to your left. 

"Trust your teammates."

4 hours ago, US31 said:

When Penn was part of the elite...they were at the top of enrollment.  No one was their size save a few MIC schools (e.g. Carmel, BD).

Growth around Indy has outpaced Granger....Penn is a very middle of the pack Indy Metro school now.  I'm obviosly biased....but there a few OC/DC's at those Indy metro schools that would be an excellent choice for a program that wants to beat those same types of schools.  

And "No", I have no specific knowledge of any particular person applying for the Penn job.

Good points. Expanding on that:

In the past, for a team up north to win the large division state title, you just had to be better than Carmel, Ben Davis, and Warren Central. You basically had two northern teams, Penn and Snider, competing with those three. Now you have Center Grove, Brownsburg, Hamilton Southeastern, Fishers, Westfield, Cathedral, and Avon. That's ten powerful programs for the north to contend with. Ten years ago, with Snider bumping down, all that was left was Penn............good luck with that. Fast forward to 2024 with Snider bumping back up, now it's 4 vs 10, with the inclusion of Carroll and Crown Point. The odds are still stacked against the north. There won't be a balance of power until Homestead, Lake Central, and Elkhart up their game. 

3 hours ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

I saw that Penn was still like top 5 or 6 largest school in Indiana. That is still bigger than most Indy schools.  This isn't a size issue that has defeated Penn. It was complacency and at time the lack of buy in from the players. 3 of the last 5 years, on the field and sidelines you could tell, NO ONE seemed to care. Coaches wouldn't do anything and the players were stone cold silent. The D would ball out for three quarters and then get torched in the fourth because the O did not know how to sustain a drive. O-lineman would come to the bench and just sit there, no one would challenge one another. That changed two seasons ago and carried into last season. This past senior class cared and it showed. Players would hold each other accountable on the sideline. 

I am not saying yelling determines passion, but when things are not going well or things are hard, and no one says a word...that scares me.

Gameday moxie is important. Throw in a little swagger. Without it, you're done. Let the kids have fun. 

6 hours ago, BDGiant93 said:

Snider too!

Love the Warren Central pick-up. But after this year, no more Indy teams for at least a couple of years. I could be wrong, but I just don't think Snider cares for long road trips. 

53 minutes ago, WestfieldRocks said:

The HCC did not want another schedule against all conference teams. They had that back when the three Lafayette schools, pre Franklin Central, were in the conference. 

Mixing the schedule up a little bit could also be good for the gate?

5 hours ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

FWIW - Mishawaka has been to championship. They went in 2012, losing to Cathedral 56-29 in the 4A State Championship game. That was smack dab in the middle of the Irish's 5-year championship run between 2010-2014.

Good catch. Mishawaka's not new to success by any means. I think the Cavemen are one of those overlooked programs who've  been pretty stout for the last three decades. Not to mention 11 sectional titles over the past 15 seasons. They seem to reload at the coaching position with guys who stick around for awhile. 

10 hours ago, BDGiant93 said:

I like that Carroll is taking on Indy Metro teams. 

Love it. Go big or go home. 

9 hours ago, PDB26 said:

Unless I've lost it, it's four state runner ups for Cory. No need to qualify his success, but, to your point, there are plenty of good programs that would love a single state finals appearance. 

A Penn fan would know. Scrolling through past seasons, I believe I counted one of his five semi-state losses as a state finals appearance. 

9 Regional titles

4 Semi-state titles

Warren Central has high expectations again this year, so yeah, the 100th meeting with Ben Davis could be a dandy. Here's what I have out of the Northeast: 

Warren Central at Snider........Round 2

Hamilton Southeastern at Carroll........rubber match

Snider at Carroll........Carroll has that suburban Indy vibe. They've replaced Dwenger as Snider's fiercest competitor. 

Carroll at Center Grove........If you're going venture into Trojan country, might as well do it with a D1 quarterback. 

Leo at Luers...........4A Top 10 program takes on 2A's best. 

2 hours ago, Formerly Number 39 said:

Did Coach Yeoman win a title while HC?

He's 0-5 in state title games. Two of those games were competitive, so you could say he was close to winning twice. Nonetheless, the man took his team to the championship 5 times............impressive. There are some good programs out there who'd like to just go once............Merrillville and Mishawaka. 

2 hours ago, Formerly Number 39 said:

If the IHSAA created an "Open Class" that was intended to be comprised of the best 32 teams in the state, regardless of enrollment numbers, and inclusion was voluntary, would they be able to fill it? 

Absolutely not. Four teams have absolutely owned 6A. Doesn't leave a whole lot of hope for the other 28 teams. If a program like Cathedral won't bump up voluntarily, none of them will.