Footballking16

17 minutes ago, temptation said:

Westfield has 2400 students and a free and reduced rate well under 20 percent.

CG roughly the same amount of students and a free and reduced rate of just over 20 percent.

That's how.

 

So it's not really about enrollment then? 

15 minutes ago, DT said:

I think we need a translator.  LOL

Not hard to understand. 20 years ago Center Grove was no different than Warsaw, LC, Southport, Perry Meridian, etc. playing in a class with schools that had twice their enrollment. They figured it out. They didn't used to be an outlier.

1 hour ago, Bears62 said:

Anyone else find it it strange all the people against DT’s proposition are fans of schools like BD, CG, Cathedral and Carmel? These people act like schools like Chesterton and Lafayette Jeff are on the same playing field as Ben Davis. How hard headed and stubborn do you need to be to deny the huge population disadvantages these schools have? This is strictly about giving these 8 programs a more fair shot at a deep tourney run. That’s all. The IHSAA can’t stop the big 4 from putting the best teams on the field and passing the trophy back and forth, but they can at least do their best to balance it as best they see fit. The bullcrap response about participation trophies from Grover is so lame. Talk about being narrow-minded. We get it dude, CG can win it all with 2500 students. They are an outlier. Outliers exist. Do you get off by having schools that have good football programs that could compete with the best in 5a stuck at the bottom of 6a? Or do you just really like the number 32 for some reason? Really weird

There's an unlevel playing field in literally every class. The state tournament is designed to crown the best team, not cater to individual schools. As for Center Grove, Center Grove wasn't an outlier until they were. 

31 minutes ago, Frozen Tundra said:

Conference Indiana did back when it was a 10 team league from 1998-2005. They always played a seven game conference schedule.

The North Central Conference always plays a seven game schedule despite having ten teams.

Fair enough. I know the Summit is locked with 10 teams and the SIAC is now. Not sure how you crown a true champion without playing a round robin schedule. 

15 minutes ago, Frozen Tundra said:

Even if a merger did occur, I highly doubt they’d play a nine game conference schedule. Columbus North wouldn’t want that because they wouldn’t be able to play Columbus East.

Then I don't understand the point of the merger? How many conferences that have at least 10 teams have open weeks to schedule non-conference opponents? 

17 minutes ago, fenderbender said:

And Roncalli-Cathedral just started again.  (Two seasons from now?)  Depends if they are going to keep it going.

Believe it starts next year but could be wrong. Amazing it takes a resurgence in the program to get Cathedral back on the schedule. I believe Columbus North gets Cathedral and Roncalli back to back this year.  

1 hour ago, DT said:

 

With the recent shocking news of Texas and Oklahoma taking their skills from the Big 12 to the SEC, conference realignment talk is once again front and center at football roundtables across the country.

That conversation drips down to the high school level as well, as realignment and individual conference moves happen more often than we might realize.

After talking with high school football coaches from across the state over the past month, most have nothing but praise for their conference homes, applauding the coaching staffs and administrative support their fellow conference members recieve. In a few cases, some schools may not be completely happy with their current conference homes, and maybe shopping for a new address.

One school that could be in the middle of any realignment/expansion/merger talk is Columbus North.

CN, currently a member of Conference Indiana, is a high value property that would bring great value to whichever conference it were to be affiliated with. The school has state championship trophys in multiple sports including golf, cross country, track and swimming.

What CN does not have is long term conference stability, as Conference Indiana has hemorraged members over the past 15 years, losing Martinsville, Franklin Central, Perry Meridian, Decatur Central, Pike and Lawrence Central , who all bolted for greener pastures in Indianapolis metro conferences.

The Terre Haute schools, North and South, likely saved CI from extinction when they joined the conference, in affect swapping places with LC and Pike. However with just 6 member schools, out of conference scheduling can be a nightmare for athletic directors, and that simple fact keeps the conference on edge over the possibility of further defections.

North Coach Tim Bless stated in our recent interview that he would like to see CI expand and invite additional members, or possibly seek a merger to strengthen the league and reduce its dependence on 4 non conference games every year. A possible merger with the larger private schools of the Circle City Conference has been mentioned as a possibility.

So if you are Columbus North and you are looking to secure a long term conference home, what are your options?

1. Hoosier Crossroads

The HCC recently added Franklin Central, expanding its reach to the south side of Indianapolis. Extending that reach all the way down to Columbus might be more travel than HCC members want to bear. Remember how 10 years ago the HCC booted the Lafayette schools over non competitive and travel related issues.

2. Hoosier Hills

CN has a strong connection to Indianapolis, and jumping to the Hoosier Hills would end those connections and disrupt the Bulldogs access to the states largest media market. It is likely that rival Columbus East would attempt to block the move , as the Olympians call the HHC their home and they would likely rather secede from the IHSAA than share a permanent home dwelling with the hated Bulldogs.

3. Metropolitan (MIC)

North just does not have the enrolment to compete consistently in the revenue sports in The MIC. The school would be a great addition in the country club sports, girls sports, baseball and soccer, and would give Carmel and Center Grove some much needed competition as the other MIC schools are weak in many of these non revenue sports. Bottom line, North is used to being the big fish in the pond. Becoming the smallest school in The MIC just doesn't seem to suit their personality.

4. Mid State Conference

Potentially a very good fit. The MSC is a rock solid conference from top to bottom. its core schools are on the south end of Indy, making travel to Columbus on 65 quite simple and convenient. Perry Meridian, an awful football school, just grabbed the open 8th spot in the conference, weakening the leagues football profile, but adding a 6A school that is solid in most sports on the athletic menu. The MSC however is likely not looking to expand past 8 members, and CN might view the league as a slight step down in competition from its current home in Conference Indiana.

5. Expanded Conference Indiana

Coach Bless seemed to lean towards this option as possibly the most attractive for CN, and I agree. CI and The Circle City have had a scheduling arrangement for several years, with the two leagues hooking up for some very interesting interconference matchups. While the Circle City has had the upper hand recently, the games are generally competitive and all the schools have the resources to improve and continue to increase the level of play. A merger of the Big 4 private schools of the Circle City (Roncalli/Chatard/Brebeuf/Guerin) with the 6 public schools of Conference Indiana (Columbus North/Southport/Bloom North/Bloom South/TH North/TH South) creates a very solid 10 team public/private conference that provides for a very high level of play in all sports, reasoable travel, as these schools are used to being on the road, and a group of schools with great history and relavence in Indiana high school sports, both past and future.

How about we just call it The Big Ten?

Columbus North 6A

Terre Haute North 5A

Southport 6A

Terre Haute South 5A

Bloomington North 5A

Bloomington South 5A

Bishop Chatard 4A

Indianapolis Roncalli 4A

Indianapolis Brebeuf 3A

Guerin 3A

7a3e1bd6-7d8b-472a-9b56-d1803183f019.webp 51.85 kB · 0 downloads

Expanding Conference Indiana makes some sense although you're not going to get a commitment from Chatard. A locked regular season means no Cathedral and that just isn't going to happen. But Roncalli would be a solid addition. 

Guessing the HCC and MIC are off the table considering it's borderline unsafe to play schools with that enrollment disparity according to previous comments. 

8 minutes ago, temptation said:

Have you ever considered that getting your blood pressure up is his actual goal?

If so, mission accomplished.

You know, I don’t think that’s the case with Muda.

Had you said trying to sound the smartest in a room full of people talking about high school football, I’d agree.

26 minutes ago, DE said:

Thank you for your response.  

Interesting.  Almost like his "incessant ********" got noticed.

Always enjoy reading your content FB16

He posted the same drivel even after the mercy rule was enacted. That was never his primary or even secondary goal.

1 hour ago, DE said:

One HUGE difference I see here is, @Muda69has continually went directly to the source with his “complaints”.   That, I respect the heck out of!

Muda literally went almost an entire decade posting scores of “blowouts” week after week and only offered a solution of taking a knee for the rest of the game once the deficit threshold reached 35. 
 

Applaud you for being able to get past his incessant bitching. I for one haven’t.

16 minutes ago, Grover said:

I feel like I'm in a Twilight Zone episode where Muda is calling out somebody else for incessant bitching.  

I spit out the imaginary coffee I wasn't drinking. It's literally his only schtick on this board that's gone on for well over 15 years. 

15 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Yes, contact Mr. Bless with your concerns regarding "contradictory and hypocritical statements" and report back to us your dialogue.

 

I'm good. 

16 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Yet you are the one incessantly complaining in this thread about Mr. Bless's scheduling strategy, are you not?  Perhaps Mr. Bless would be open to another interview surrounding this particular topic.

 

Don't really care about his scheduling habits as much as I do about his contradictory and hypocritical statements in the interview on this very thread in which the interviewer happens to be present and respondent to questions about said interview. Anything else I can do for you Muda?

15 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

We all hear you FK16,  why don't you take your complaints/concerns to the source of your consternation? I'm sure you could have a productive dialog with Mr. Bless, don't you?

 

I'm not the one that gave the interview. 

14 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Then why do you keep bitching about it on the GID? It is getting rather repetitive, IMHO.

 

Irony here?

Why do you bitch about half the things you do on the GID, most that have nothing to do with high school football?

17 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Send Mr. Bless an email with your concerns:  https://columbusnorthathletics.org/main/staff/id/3603592/seasonid/4236085/staffid/100064

 

Actions speak a ton louder than words. I understand where he is coming from perfectly. 

16 minutes ago, DT said:

Im not defending his scheduling philosophy.  I do however completely understand it.  Guerin and GS are not your typical 700 student high schools.  

CN has 4 open dates to fill.  You simply cannot call all of the shots with that many open dates.  Sometimes you have to settle.

Did we beat up Chesterton last year when they agreed to go play at Pioneer?

I remember being worried for the Benton Central kids when thy had to go play at West Lafayette and line up against Big G and his burly gang of Red Devils.  I was genuinely worried about their physical safety.  

Each situation is different.  The 'last" thing I would ever accuse CN of is taking the easy road 

Check in with Bless after he goes back to back with Roncalli and Cathedral in mid September.  

I don't understand his innocuous comment in regards to the discrepancy in enrollment in 6A. It's never affected one of his Columbus North teams as he can't ever beat the like-sized public school 20 miles up the road. Hell, he can't beat Franklin Central or Jeffersonville for that matter. It reeks of sour grapes. No coach who has willingly scheduled Carmel and continually schedules schools that are 3x smaller really has a leg to stand on in regards to player safety if we're simply talking raw numbers. It would be hypocritical in nature. 

15 minutes ago, DT said:

perhaps Bless developed his attitude on the mega schools after completing the Carmel series.  

And yet continues to schedule schools that are 3x smaller than Columbus North's enrollment? 

27 minutes ago, DT said:

First, I have great respect for the coach and for the Bless family.  Tim Bless has been at CN for 21 years.  That kind of committment deserves some recognition and respect.

Second, Center Grove is a beast from another time.  Many coaches in Northwest Indiana lost their jobs over the years, including Rick Wimmer at Merrillville, because they could not beat the "smaller Hobart Brickies."  CG is a modern day Hobart.  They beat everyone and they do it soundly and routinely.  CG does not beat CN with a two or 3 platoon system, ike he suggests a carmel or a BD or a WC would due to their size advantages.  CG beats small, medium and large alike because they out execute people on a regular basis.  

You do bring up some good points about CN scheduling smaller schools.  I think the philosophy at CN is to get Catholic schools on the schedule whenever and wherever possible.  Sometimes its smaller PPs, sometimes, like this year with Roncalli and Cathedral, its the bigger ones.  

Nick Hart is the reason that CN is playing Gibson Southern.  Hart wanted to challenge his team to go beyond the normal 2A, 3A competition they see so they scheduled Columbus North for a two years series, knowing they would have a Big Ten QB to take them onto the field in Brady Allen.  GS picks up Terre Haute South next year.  

Columbus North, in my view, is one oif the more interesting schools in the state, and one of the prime reasons I want to see Class 6A reduced to the Top 24 schools in enrollment.  These schools with 2000 students are completely missing out on the post season due to the fact that they are buried at the bottom of 6A in enrollment.  Merrillville, Warsaw, Chesterton, Valpo, Lafayette Jeff , Jeffersonville are several others.  Great schools, no chance to get to LOS without a "MIlan Miracle" set of circumstances.  

From an outsiders perspective, North and East are very different schools.  East is southern Indiana, Hoosier Hills, a football juggernaut in hoops country.  North is more connected to Indy, a big suburban mindset, and a school with a broader perspective on scheduling and travel.  Youve literally got Yankees and Rebels on separate sides of Columbus.  Thats probably why east will always fight against Norths entry into the Hoosier Hills.  (I dont think North wants anything to do with it frankly)

That doesn't answer any of my questions/issues with what Coach Bless said.

In your interview, Coach Bless specifically said, "The enrollment discrepancy from the top of 6A to the bottom is ridiculous and in some cases, borderline unsafe". Carmel (being at the very top of 6A) and Columbus North (bottom of 6A) scheduled games in back to back years in 2013 and 2014. If Coach Bless truly believed that was "borderline unsafe" why schedule those games in the first place? Would that be negligence on his part if he truly believed that statement to be true? (I personally don't believe he thinks that).

I get why a school like GS is wanting to play up in competition, it happens every year, but if safety is the primary concern as Coach Bless states in your interview, isn't a school with 2100 kids playing a school with 700 kids unsafe? The enrollment disparity between Columbus North and Gibson Southern is greater than the enrollment disparity between Columbus North and Carmel. It's very hypocritical if you ask me. 

16 minutes ago, Grover said:

CG is what...2600 students?  He wants to be sheltered from them but it's okay for CG to play Carmel.  This is the typical BS I've read on this forum for years.  Surprised to see a coach say the same thing.

 

He’s virtue signaling. Clearly. Had no problems scheduling Carmel in 2013 and 2014, in a non-elimination game, and routinely schedules schools with nearly 3x smaller enrollment. It has nothing to do with safety.

It’d be more honorable if he just came out and said, “We need to do something about 6A, I’m tired of losing to Center Grove”, although that wouldn’t gain any attraction. But drum up a non-issue that doesn’t affect the CN program and through safety issues in there, will definitely turn heads.

2 minutes ago, DT said:

Let's keep it respectful fellas

Do you agree with his comments?

2 minutes ago, DanteEstonia said:

Columbus North had a series against Carmel a few years ago.

Oh.

So he voluntarily scheduled Carmel despite the fact that it is “borderline unsafe”? Seems logical.

This reeks of sour grapes, similar to Jon Broughton and the multiplier campaign despite losing to a p/p twice in 30+ years. If the like-sized public that knocks his team out every year wasn’t the face of 6A, he might have a leg to stand on.

On 7/31/2021 at 8:36 PM, temptation said:

I was ridiculed for making this exact same statement on this very message board back in May.

Its great to see someone who walks the front lines and is tuned in with the sport and the youth that play it say the same.

(Willing to bet he doesn’t get throttled for saying it though.)

Serious question, has Columbus North ever played Ben Davis, Carmel, or Warren Central in their mega-enrollment days? I find his comments extremely hypocritical if not flat out embarrassing as he has no problem scheduling schools like Gibson Southern and Guerin Catholic who have 700-800 kids compared to his 2100 students. Let's not throw stones here. I have no problem calling him out. 

18 minutes ago, Indiana Fan said:

Carmel it’s perfect. CG to Westfield or noblesville, or fishers/HSE. Those are some drives!! Carmel and CG are a long drive as is. 

It makes sense for Carmel. Center Grove it doesn't. I get that the average HCC team travels better than the average MIC team, but a lot of that has to do with the proximity of the schools. Most HCC schools are centrally located whereas the MIC is represented well throughout all corners of the city. It's an hour drive from Noblesville/Westfield/Zionsville to Center Grove without traffic. At 5pm on a Friday night? Look out.  

17 minutes ago, temptation said:

Agree on both accounts but like we always say with the HCC schools, no one will believe it until they SEE it.  Last year's Warren team was mediocre by past standards and shut down LN's two offensive juggernauts in the sectional.

North Central, on the other hand actually had the 2018 Warren team on the ropes and gave them one hell of a game.

Both programs definitely have reason for optimism but the bottom four in the MIC will not garner statewide respect until they break into the top half of the conference on a consistent basis.

Definitely fair, respect is earned.

Still not buying a move to the HCC is an upgrade for Carmel and Center Grove in terms of competitiveness from a football standpoint. 

16 minutes ago, DT said:

Its my believe that the CG ahletic and admistrative hierarchy put a higher emphasis on gate revenues and better competition for non revenue sports than they do on maintaining annual egular season rivalries with BD and WC.  The 20 year chase is over.  CG has caught and passed both, and is now the hunted.  Its the natural law of competitive sports.  Reminds me of what Clemson has done in The ACC.  Dabo came out of nowhere and built them into a powerhouse, supplanting Miami and Florida State in the process.  

Totally get that. That has a chance to backfire as well. With a landlocked 9 game HCC schedule, there's going to be years where CG only gets 4 home games and they have no control as to who that opponent is. I'm guessing the CG athletic department is going to be disappointed when opponents like Noblesville, Franklin Central, HSE, and Fishers come to town. Those schools don't travel like you think especially down to Johnson County.