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swordfish

The Democrat's roster for a Trump - beater in 2020

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45 minutes ago, swordfish said:

Welcome to identity politics.....

Mayor Pete is very intelligent, so it is sad (but it was pretty predictable) to see him sink into the mire of national politics like he is doing.  The City of South Bend and him (professionally) have benefited immensely due to his previous relationship first with Governor(s) Pence and now Holcomb and the Republicans that pretty much controlled Indiana politics.  It was amazing to see him work effectively and successfully in that environment.  I had hoped he would avoid identity politics and point to his bipartisanship working with the other side, but he is falling into the role the DNC would like him to play - the alter-ego to Mike Pence - who will absolutely crush him if he continues this path.

 

Mike Pence will crush him? Or are you referring to something/someone else? Didn't follow that statement....

In what I have seen of him so far, Mayor Pete (not gonna commit to trying to spell that last name accurately) seems to be minimizing the identity politics aspects of his sexual orientation and positioning himself more broadly as the candidate who is "just as progressive, but also much more practical" than Bernie,  or Corey, or Kamala, or Elizabeth, etc., with a "plus, I'm a millennial, so I think like you" ("you" as in second largest voting bloc demographically) kicker, to separate himself from the other (older) candidates with executive office experience. 

I see his recent statements related to Pence's purported view of gay people as a framing mechanism for the pitch he eventually has to make successfully to the many Americans who are still uncertain in how they "feel" about homosexuals: the folks who 20 to 15 years ago firmly believed gay people were "perverts", equivalent to pedophiles, but who have come to discover in the last decade or so that there seem to be a heck of a lot of "normal" gay people.

He has to convince those people that he's gay because that's how God made him, and while he is not ashamed or embarrassed of it, it is also just one of many components of the person God made him to be; it is not the animating "force" of what he is about, as a person or as a politician, any more than the fact that God made them heterosexual defines who they are.  

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Bernie Sanders Is a Millionaire. That’s Great!: https://reason.com/2019/04/15/bernie-sanders-is-a-millionaire-thats-great/

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If I had a dollar for every time Bernie Sanders has inveighed against “millionaires and billionaires,” I’d be…well, still probably not as rich as Bernie Sanders, who revealed last week that he is now a millionaire. Sanders’ newfound wealth is due in part to the success of his book, Our Revolution, which earned him roughly $885,000 in 2017 after hitting number three on the New York Times best-seller list, a fact about which Sanders is justly pleased.

“I wrote a best-selling book,” he said, explaining how he ended up at the high end of America’s wealth spectrum. “If you write a best-selling book, you can be a millionaire, too.

That’s right—and that’s how it should be.

Sanders spent years building himself and his name into a successful national brand by identifying and filling a relatively unique niche in the market for national politics. Based on the success of that brand, he then negotiated a deal with a publisher to bring a product—his book—to market. The product sold well, and Sanders, who had invested a significant amount of personal time in conceiving and producing the product, reaped the financial rewards. Now he’s better off, and I suspect that he, at least, would argue that the people who bought his book are better off too. Everyone wins.

Sanders, in other words, was acting as an entrepreneur, a person who made something new in the world, something for which there turned out to be considerable market demand. And Sanders clearly feels no shame about earning a large return on his labor as a result.

Folks, that’s capitalism. Whether he means to or not, Bernie is making an argument for the existence of rich capitalists, and for the value they bring to the world. And it’s an argument that both could and should extend beyond book writing to, say, the founders and inventors behind some of the nation’s most successful businesses, some of whom have made a lot more than $885,000. If, just for example, you start an online bookstore that eventually revolutionizes the entire retail sector, making it incredibly easy to download Sanders’ book to a convenient digital device for just a few bucks, you can be a multi-billionaire too. (Sanders, who blasted Amazon for paying low wages to its distribution center workers, probably made a significant chunk of his book earnings off of Amazon sales.)

But wait a minute—is Sanders really arguing against the existence of millionaires and billionaires? Maybe not explicitly. But by repeatedly singling them out, he was certainly implying that there was something unsavory, something vaguely illegitimate about their existence. And some of Sanders’ fellow democratic socialists have certainly suggested that the very existence of a billion-dollar personal fortune is a moral problem, or a “policy failure.” (The Sanders brand was, in many ways, first to market. But as with many popular products, his success has led to a legion of imitators.)

Maybe, then, there’s a difference between millionaires and billionaires, with the former being a little less objectionable? It’s hard to make a coherent argument that there’s a clear line at which some amount of wealth suddenly becomes unacceptable—that at some point, you’ve sold so many books, and made so much money from doing so, that it’s immoral.

For Sanders, at least, that line seems to be moving. As the folks at ThinkProgress recently noticed in a video, Sanders appears to have become less focused on millionaires and more interested in the problems with billionaires at the same time his own income increased. Perhaps that’s just a coincidence. (Sanders objected to the ThinkProgress video, suggesting it was influenced by corporate money.)

In any case, I think it’s genuinely great that Bernie Sanders is a millionaire, and that in becoming a millionaire, our nation’s most well-known democratic socialist politician has, however inadvertently, started defending one of the core tenets of capitalism—that if you come up with an idea for a product, make that product a reality in the world, and sell it to lots of willing buyers, it’s perfectly just and reasonable for you to earn a lot of money as a result. One can only hope that there are more best-sellers, and more millions, in Sanders’ future.

Congratulations to the capitalist Mr. Sanders on the success of his book and his subsequent millionaire status.     Now which of our GID socialists out there will automatically discount Mr. Sanders as a potential POTUS due to his capitalist success?

 

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On 3/11/2019 at 11:45 AM, Muda69 said:

 

17 hours ago, Wabash82 said:

Mike Pence will crush him? Or are you referring to something/someone else? Didn't follow that statement....

In what I have seen of him so far, Mayor Pete (not gonna commit to trying to spell that last name accurately) seems to be minimizing the identity politics aspects of his sexual orientation and positioning himself more broadly as the candidate who is "just as progressive, but also much more practical" than Bernie,  or Corey, or Kamala, or Elizabeth, etc., with a "plus, I'm a millennial, so I think like you" ("you" as in second largest voting bloc demographically) kicker, to separate himself from the other (older) candidates with executive office experience. 

I see his recent statements related to Pence's purported view of gay people as a framing mechanism for the pitch he eventually has to make successfully to the many Americans who are still uncertain in how they "feel" about homosexuals: the folks who 20 to 15 years ago firmly believed gay people were "perverts", equivalent to pedophiles, but who have come to discover in the last decade or so that there seem to be a heck of a lot of "normal" gay people.

He has to convince those people that he's gay because that's how God made him, and while he is not ashamed or embarrassed of it, it is also just one of many components of the person God made him to be; it is not the animating "force" of what he is about, as a person or as a politician, any more than the fact that God made them heterosexual defines who they are.  

SF predicted back that when the Mayor started posturing like the VP was a problem for him when as Governor because he came out as gay, that would not be a wise move for the Mayor.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  Those of us in this area know how the former Governor treated the Mayor, before and after he came out, and how the Mayor was able to work with him and now Governor Holcomb was impressive, more impressive than most of the former Mayors of South Bend.  The Mayor to his credit got a lot accomplished, but would have never been able to do that without help from the State level.  Him making these moves now to find favor within the DNC and the younger voters (IMHO) will come back to bite him and that is where I think the VP relationship will go.

SF thinks his mistake is assuming that any Christian is going to hate him for being gay.  Christians like myself who I feel make up the larger christian voting block can easily forgive what we consider sin.  I believe it's between him and God, and it's his choice.  Him having the line of thinking that God made him that way and advertising that belief will hurt him more in the bible belt than just being gay.  I think THAT is where the DNC wants him to be, and he is falling into that position easily.

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4 hours ago, Muda69 said:

Bernie Sanders Is a Millionaire. That’s Great!: https://reason.com/2019/04/15/bernie-sanders-is-a-millionaire-thats-great/

Congratulations to the capitalist Mr. Sanders on the success of his book and his subsequent millionaire status.     Now which of our GID socialists out there will automatically discount Mr. Sanders as a potential POTUS due to his capitalist success?

 

I think the question Muda is which GID member(s) will hold his/her breath waiting for Bernie to share his new wealth.........and sign up for Obamacare........

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35 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

I think the question Muda is which GID member(s) will hold his/her breath waiting for Bernie to share his new wealth.........and sign up for Obamacare........

It's obvious Mr. Sanders should now be taxed at 70%.

 

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18 hours ago, TrojanDad said:

I think the question Muda is which GID member(s) will hold his/her breath waiting for Bernie to share his new wealth.........and sign up for Obamacare........

Probably the same ones waiting for resident "libertarians" to pay their fair share of free market road access, etc., Evangelicals to put their vote where their Bible really is, and fiscal conservatives to hold their presidential leader beholden to the party platform.

17 hours ago, Muda69 said:

It's obvious Mr. Sanders should now be taxed at 70%.

 

Sure, why not?  I don't think he'd argue with you.

 

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1 hour ago, foxbat said:

Probably the same ones waiting for resident "libertarians" to pay their fair share of free market road access,

I would happily pay my "fair share" for private, free market road access.  Especially here in Frankfort where the city streets are falling apart while the Mayor and City Council spend millions of taxpayers dollars on a new park,  new pool,  and probably a new police station.

What is the highest income tax rate you are freely willing to pay, foxbat? 

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3 hours ago, Muda69 said:

I would happily pay my "fair share" for private, free market road access.  Especially here in Frankfort where the city streets are falling apart while the Mayor and City Council spend millions of taxpayers dollars on a new park,  new pool,  and probably a new police station.

What is the highest income tax rate you are freely willing to pay, foxbat? 

Fair market or whatever keeps me out of jail  ... whichever is lowest.

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5 hours ago, foxbat said:

Probably the same ones waiting for resident "libertarians" to pay their fair share of free market road access, etc., Evangelicals to put their vote where their Bible really is, and fiscal conservatives to hold their presidential leader beholden to the party platform.

 

 

sometimes the voting options are really limited....but nice stereotype.

Guessing fiscal conservatives are more concerned about "everything is free" approach from Sanders, AOC and the other socialists on the left.  They know that not to be true.

Do you think Bern is going to give up his 70% from his book proceeds? 

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1 minute ago, TrojanDad said:

sometimes the voting options are really limited....but nice stereotype.

Guessing fiscal conservatives are more concerned about "everything is free" approach from Sanders, AOC and the other socialists on the left.  They know that not to be true.

Do you think Bern is going to give up his 70% from his book proceeds? 

 

Perhaps that's the exact same thing that the "socialists on the left" are thinking.

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1 minute ago, foxbat said:

 

Perhaps that's the exact same thing that the "socialists on the left" are thinking.

17 choices this time around....get out and vote

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2 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

17 choices this time around....get out and vote

Likewise ... GOP had about the same last time around ... ended up with a non-fiscal conservative, non-Evangelical, non free-trade candidate.  Had nothing to do with "socialists." 

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1 hour ago, foxbat said:

Fair market or whatever keeps me out of jail  ... whichever is lowest.

Please define/explain "Fair Market" as it relates to income tax rates.

 

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Just now, Muda69 said:

Please define/explain "Fair Market" as it relates to income tax rates.

 

Yep.

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2 minutes ago, foxbat said:

Yep.

dodge-duck-dip-dive-and-dodge.jpg

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On 4/15/2019 at 4:53 PM, Wabash82 said:

Mike Pence will crush him? Or are you referring to something/someone else? Didn't follow that statement....

 

Mayor Pete may not make it far enough in this race to reach Pence......He is playing the role the dems want him in perfectly - which (IMHO) is not the role best suited for him.....

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3 hours ago, Muda69 said:

dodge-duck-dip-dive-and-dodge.jpg

Thank you for your support.

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Andrew Yang: The Capitalist Candidate Championing a Universal Basic Income: https://reason.com/2019/04/19/andrew-yang-a-capitalist-who-proposes-universal-basic-income/

Quote

Andrew Yang wants you to know: he's not a socialist.

The businessman is among the crowded field of 2020 Democratic presidential contenders and is campaigning almost solely on a universal basic income (UBI) proposal. Nicknamed his "Freedom Dividend," it promises to give $1,000 a month to every adult between the ages of 18 and 64.

It's a plan that reeks of pie-in-the-sky idealism. But, perhaps ironically, Yang's campaign is colored by his affinity for capitalism, particularly as the founder of a nonprofit—Venture for America—that trains young entrepreneurs. And he touts his pragmatism in what is almost certainly an attempt to sway skeptics.

"I've looked at the numbers…" Yang said repeatedly at a rally in Washington, D.C., on Monday evening, eliciting loud cheers from supporters who fervently waved signs that said "MATH."

The presidential hopeful told Reason that his Freedom Dividend would put "more people in a position where they can actually participate in a free market," making for a "much more dynamic" economy.

UBI has a bevy of full-throated critics on both sides of the aisle. In 2016, Oren Cass wrote in National Review that it is "a logical successor to the worst public policies and social movements of the past 50 years." Eduardo Porter of The New York Times saidit provides a "non-negligible disincentive to work" and that government aid would become "less generous over time."

But it's also had an unlikely array of supporters over the years, like Thomas Paine and Martin Luther King, Jr.—not to mention famed libertarian economists Milton Friedman, Friedrich Hayek, and Charles Murray.

"The good news is that a well-designed UBI can do much more than help us to cope with disaster," Murray wrote in The Wall Street Journal in 2016. "It also could provide an invaluable benefit: injecting new resources and new energy into an American civic culture that has historically been one of our greatest assets but that has deteriorated alarmingly in recent decades."

Murray and Yang approach the UBI discussion from a similar vantage point: Automation is picking up speed, and it's coming for your job. "We are approaching a labor market in which entire trades and professions will be mere shadows of what they once were," says Murray. Similarly, Yang calls his Freedom Dividend a "tech check"—an homage to the retail workers, call center employees, and truck drivers who may increasingly find themselves without work in the coming years.

But Murray and Yang diverge considerably when it comes to how they would pay for a UBI—as well as how it would interact with the welfare system. Murray champions the burn-it-all-down approach, financing the stipend by eradicating all social safety net programs, including Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, as well as housing and agricultural subsidies.

Yang sees it differently. He proposes centralizing health care costs and taxing tech giants like Amazon, who he says are automating jobs into oblivion and driving some stores across the country into the ground. Emboldened by the Freedom Dividend, recipients would spend their money in their local communities, facilitating a "trickle up economy."

And while he pictures welfare dependence waning, Yang maintains that it has its rightful place in society. "You don't want to take away benefits that hundreds of thousands of Americans are literally relying upon for their very survival," he told Reason. "The goal is to create more positive incentives." Over time, he says that welfare enrollment would decline with a rise in empowered consumers, "because many people in the Dividend would never find themselves in those programs."

The jury is certainly still out on UBI, and objections to Yang's Freedom Dividend are not without merit. Some research lends credence to the idea that a guaranteed check will discourage employment and overall productivity. Others counter that those fears are unfounded, citing Alaska's Permanent Fund: The state sends a yearly stipend to residents and has not experienced significant dips in aggregate employment. The latter claim is a bit harder to stomach, as Alaska paid residents $1,600 in 2018—hardly enough to quit your day job. Yang proposes $1,000 per month, although some argue it will help people pursue their professional goals by lowering barriers to entry.

Yang is also backing Medicare for All, the decriminalization of opioids (including heroin and fentanyl), as well as the regulation of social media companies to encourage healthier habits.

"We have the smartest engineers in the country trying to turn supercomputers into dopamine delivery systems for teenagers," he told Reason. To address this, he suggests that developers be required to promote moderation; according to Yang, an alert system that tells users to "find a human" or "go outside" would be a start. "Financial incentives of their companies will never suggest that they do this, and so they need a hand," he said—although the long-term benefit of such initiatives would likely be dubious.

Although Yang's candidacy is a long shot by most standards, he considers himself the perfect foil to President Trump.

"Donald Trump is our president today because he got a lot of the fundamental problems right," he said at his Monday night rally. "When he was going around saying, 'Hey things are not great,' and then the counter was 'Things actually are great,'—that was not the right response."

But Yang says that, while Trump may have diagnosed the problem, he's prescribing the wrong medicine. "His solutions are that we have to turn the clock back," he said. "Time only moves in one direction. I want to accelerate our economy and society. I want to prepare us for the true challenges of the 21st century.

"And I'm the right man for the job, because the opposite of Donald Trump is an Asian man who likes math!"

As one of the comments to this story states:

Quote

A) Lets make it $2500, and B) do away with all welfare, SNAP, minimum wage laws, and 2/3s of the government bureaucracy that goes towards administering the nanny state.

I somehow doubt B) ever happens

 

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On 4/17/2019 at 9:39 AM, TrojanDad said:

Do you think Bern is going to give up his 70% from his book proceeds? 

Do you understand how marginal tax rates work?

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On 4/17/2019 at 5:19 AM, Muda69 said:

I would happily pay my "fair share" for private, free market road access.  Especially here in Frankfort where the city streets are falling apart while the Mayor and City Council spend millions of taxpayers dollars on a new park,  new pool,  and probably a new police station.

What is the highest income tax rate you are freely willing to pay, foxbat? 

Have you ever heard of Marcus Licinius Crassus?

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