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Mercy Rule? No thanks


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43 minutes ago, Huge Football Fan said:

I’ve seen teams use the same kid for all freshman game (starter played all 4 quarters) jv game (starter played all 4 quarters) and on special teams on varsity. What’s the punishment? You forfeit the jv and freshman games? Who cares?

I believe the either school would report the infraction to the IHSAA 

If it is determined that the quarter rule was broken, the team that broke the rule would forfeit the game where the quarter limits were exceeded.  In your scenario would be the Freshman game.   

Special Team Downs do not count toward quarters.   You can play every special team on Friday night and not use any quarter.  

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21 minutes ago, Bobref said:

You completely misread the intent of my post. If a team is going to be demoralized by a running clock, they are very likely already demoralized by being behind so far that the running clock kicks in. Not saying there aren’t a few exceptions. But you don’t make a rule for the few exceptions, you make it for the overwhelming majority of cases. The good the mercy rule does: takes the onus off of the coaches who will be second- and third-guessed whatever decision they make, minimizes the risk of injury when a team is just physically outclassed, reduces some of the hard feelings that might otherwise arise in a blowout, and which tend to escalate as time winds down in the game, far outweighs the few and far between exceptions.

I understand your point i just disagree with what you think. You can word it any way you want.  I don't like the rule, and i don't think that its only a few occasions where it hurts a team, i think the fact its used at all is counter productive.  MY opinion. I don't like the idea of a gentler kinder approach. You can call me heartless or uncaring or blind to the injury problem, i don't feel like i am any of those things. I simply do not think the rule is good for football. I Understood the intent of your post, I don't agree with it.

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17 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

I believe the either school would report the infraction to the IHSAA 

If it is determined that the quarter rule was broken, the team that broke the rule would forfeit the game where the quarter limits were exceeded.  In your scenario would be the Freshman game.   

Special Team Downs do not count toward quarters.   You can play every special team on Friday night and not use any quarter.  

I know you can play all the special teams q. My point was the kid played every q of the freshman game every q of the jv game and every q of the varsity q(on special teams)

 

so so last night if you had played one of these kids that you needed to okaybwhat would of happened? Can you play a high school game with 13 as center?

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I went up to the Official, stated that I was going to be putting #13 at Center for the last 8 mins of a JV game,  He was ok with it, he then went to the opposing coach to let them know, they were ok with it.  We moved forward to finish the game. 

If a kid played 8 quarters in a week that is a violation.

I can tell you in my 16 years coaching JV games, when I see quarter rules broken, I do exactly NOTHING.   I could care less.   Not my monkey, not my circus.    We at Rensselaer choose to NOT break the quarter rule.  

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59 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

?  So this is some kind of "payback", and therefore justified?  Is that your moral argument?

 

 

Never said running up the score is justified. I did infer that there is little difference in a fan being raw(never forget) about losing 96-0 and then that same school beating someone 61-0. Neither one is justifiable in my opinion. 

There are teams that clearly back off yet still overwhelm the competition. It happens. In my opinion the coach shouldn’t ask his players to fall down when touched instead of tackled, run 3 yards and stop, kneel down 3 times and punt, etc. 

i agr

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Just now, SenatorFan said:

Never said running up the score is justified. I did infer that there is little difference in a fan being raw(never forget) about losing 96-0 and then that same school beating someone 61-0. Neither one is justifiable in my opinion. 

There are teams that clearly back off yet still overwhelm the competition. It happens. In my opinion the coach shouldn’t ask his players to fall down when touched instead of tackled, run 3 yards and stop, kneel down 3 times and punt, etc. 

i agr

But yet I am not a "fan" of either team involved.  Just a supporter of Indiana High School football.

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3 minutes ago, SenatorFan said:

Hit submit too soon.

Coach Nowlin has an excellent point the 6 quarter rule needs to be tweaked. Otherwise you may have no choice but to leave your starters in a game that they are dominating.

Not true:    Your dominating and play all you JV the entire 2nd half.   They still have 4 quarters on Saturday or Monday.  

My issue is not Varsity to JV/Freshman

It is the fact that we cannot play 5 quarters a week with our Freshman/JV teams anymore.   So we played last night with 13 and will play Thursday with 14.   Instead of 27 JV kids where I picked better freshman to play a quarter each.  

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1 minute ago, Coach Nowlin said:

Not true:    Your dominating and play all you JV the entire 2nd half.   They still have 4 quarters on Saturday or Monday.  

My issue is not Varsity to JV/Freshman

It is the fact that we cannot play 5 quarters a week with our Freshman/JV teams anymore.   So we played last night with 13 and will play Thursday with 14.   Instead of 27 JV kids where I picked better freshman to play a quarter each.  

Coach you are right! Sorry, misinterpreted your concern with the rule. This issue does need correcting. 

Don’t want any trouble with the “Mayor”. 😂

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2 hours ago, Coach Nowlin said:

I went up to the Official, stated that I was going to be putting #13 at Center for the last 8 mins of a JV game,  He was ok with it, he then went to the opposing coach to let them know, they were ok with it.  We moved forward to finish the game. 

If a kid played 8 quarters in a week that is a violation.

I can tell you in my 16 years coaching JV games, when I see quarter rules broken, I do exactly NOTHING.   I could care less.   Not my monkey, not my circus.    We at Rensselaer choose to NOT break the quarter rule.  

Based on the few conversations I've had with coaches, most of them don't worry about a couple extra quarters by players in the JV/freshman games under those circumstances. If they are playing the stud freshman who starts at QB in the JV game in the freshman game just so they can win, that's a different story.  But I doubt that is a common occurrence. Even if you are turned in and have to forfeit a freshman game is that such a bad thing?

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3 hours ago, Coach Nowlin said:

I went up to the Official, stated that I was going to be putting #13 at Center for the last 8 mins of a JV game,  He was ok with it, he then went to the opposing coach to let them know, they were ok with it.  We moved forward to finish the game. 

If a kid played 8 quarters in a week that is a violation.

I can tell you in my 16 years coaching JV games, when I see quarter rules broken, I do exactly NOTHING.   I could care less.   Not my monkey, not my circus.    We at Rensselaer choose to NOT break the quarter rule.  

Enforcement of the quarters rule is not within the purview of game officials. I assume you were talking about the use of #13 as an interior lineman.

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According to the Evansville Courier, Kentucky’s mercy rule kicks in at 36. 

I kind of like that. It’s more than 5 scores, so something else had to happen besides 5 TD’s. Either a 2 pt, a safety, FG, etc. 

The idea of a team trailing by 35 and receiving the 2nd half kickoff still having a chance - at least one possession before it kicks in seems reasonable to me. 

 

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Gordon Engelhardt (https://twitter.com/EngGordon) of the Evansville Courier & Press wrote about this issue affecting Week 1. Interesting insight from coaches.

"It’s about time. Indiana finally joined neighboring Illinois and Kentucky by implementing the mercy rule in high school football. It was utilized immediately, going into effect in eight of the 16 season-opening games Friday night and Saturday afternoon across Southwestern Indiana..."

https://www.courierpress.com/story/sports/2019/08/26/area-football-coaches-agree-time-has-come-mercy-rule/2084812001/

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2 hours ago, Muda69 said:

So never forgetting the tragedy of 9/11 is being "butt hurt" about it .  Got it.

 

So you are really comparing a team loss one game to thousands of people losing their lives.  from some one that 9/11 change  my live and it change millions of people’s lives if you think that this two things are the same thing you are a special kind of Person a need to seek professional help

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16 hours ago, JustRules said:

Based on the few conversations I've had with coaches, most of them don't worry about a couple extra quarters by players in the JV/freshman games under those circumstances. If they are playing the stud freshman who starts at QB in the JV game in the freshman game just so they can win, that's a different story.  But I doubt that is a common occurrence. Even if you are turned in and have to forfeit a freshman game is that such a bad thing?

Correct as well,  even Monday, AD and Coaches said they are not sweating it.    However, if a serious injury would occur when I knowingly played a kid more than allotted number of quarters, I sure would be held liable.  

Listen we make do, we do not care about Wins or Losses at Freshman/JV level, our philosophy has always been getting gets reps and learn how to compete which we feel helps them mature through the program and hopefully help us on Friday nights.   I just believe wholeheartedly that the quarter rule has hurt Freshman/JV teams.  

I feel sometimes when new rules are enacted, they are focused on the 4a and above and forget about the little guy.    The quarter rule has zero affect on schools with rosters over 80 

15 hours ago, Bobref said:

Enforcement of the quarters rule is not within the purview of game officials. I assume you were talking about the use of #13 as an interior lineman.

You are correct 

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1 hour ago, Trojanmp52 said:

So you are really comparing a team loss one game to thousands of people losing their lives.  from some one that 9/11 change  my live and it change millions of people’s lives if you think that this two things are the same thing you are a special kind of Person a need to seek professional help

Depends on one's perspective.

96-0. Never forget.

 

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19 hours ago, Coach Nowlin said:

I went up to the Official, stated that I was going to be putting #13 at Center for the last 8 mins of a JV game,  He was ok with it, he then went to the opposing coach to let them know, they were ok with it.  We moved forward to finish the game. 

If a kid played 8 quarters in a week that is a violation.

I can tell you in my 16 years coaching JV games, when I see quarter rules broken, I do exactly NOTHING.   I could care less.   Not my monkey, not my circus.    We at Rensselaer choose to NOT break the quarter rule.  

Two separate issues here. Using #13 at center in a lower level game, at least in our area, we usually give teams some latitude with numbers. Particularly in JV/frosh games when available personnel might be an issue. Make sure both coaches are aware, and lets play some football. 

On the quarter issue, as Bob stated, we have no jurisdiction over that. I often hear coaches complain about it, and I tell them there's nothing I can do about that. @Coach Nowlin I appreciate your sentiments, and pretty much feel the same way, but knowing this is going on is really disappointing to me. Lets call it what it is, it's cheating, what else are they cheating at? Is your integrity really worth a W on the JV schedule? 

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I can think of only twice in all the Ben Davis games that I've covered that the mercy rule would have been a problem for a team coming back from a deficit. In 2000, Ben Davis led Warren 35-0 before Warren scored 30 straight points. BD scored 30 straight to win, 65-30. Also, I believe BD got a big lead on Avon one time to have the Orioles come back before BD pulled away and won in MAYBE the 2011 Sectional.

Other than that, I really can't think of another time in all the blowouts I've seen (whether benefiting BD or otherwise) that a mercy rule would have hampered a comeback. I love the new rule. It will speed up non-competitive games and perhaps even prevent injuries.

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The rule has a bit of a tee ball feel to it.  Having said that, I’m all for limiting injuries and 73-0 games.    I do wish the rule had a few alterations to it.  

1.  I think the same thing could be accomplished if the clock started running at 42-0 and only runs in the second half no matter the score.  

2.  If the score dips back below say 28, the rule goes away and now stops like normal.  

3.  Coaches should be the ones to decide if the clock runs.  No team should be forced into it.  

 

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I don’t think the mercy rule should be in effect until the 4th quarter or a a higher point deferential. We went into a game on Friday up 36 so the mercy rule in effect entire second half (good for our team) but the other team did have a good effort to try to make a comeback and possibly could have had this rule not been in place.

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