Jump to content
Head Coach Openings 2024 ×
  • Current Donation Goals

    • Raised $2,716 of $3,600 target

Would Luers Consider Leaving The SAC?


Guest DT

Recommended Posts

15 hours ago, BTF said:

Warsaw..............that's what I was thinking. I think I heard that scenario with Warsaw and HN before Homestead and Carroll came on board.

@DT and I have continuously smacked heads on this one. There has never been any legitimate thought of Warsaw joining the SAC. Never. Yes, Warsaw is the "big fish" in the NLC size wise. However, they have always received great competition in ALL sports in the NLC. Not a single school dominates across the board in all sports, men's and women's. Warsaw, Northridge, Concord and NorthWood all compete in just about every sport, while Plymouth, Goshen and Wawasee have their spots of competition. Adding Mishawaka will do nothing but enhance the football competition for Warsaw, while providing increased competition across the board. Warsaw to the SAC will never happen and was never a serious possibility in the slightest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

@DT and I have continuously smacked heads on this one. There has never been any legitimate thought of Warsaw joining the SAC. Never. Yes, Warsaw is the "big fish" in the NLC size wise. However, they have always received great competition in ALL sports in the NLC. Not a single school dominates across the board in all sports, men's and women's. Warsaw, Northridge, Concord and NorthWood all compete in just about every sport, while Plymouth, Goshen and Wawasee have their spots of competition. Adding Mishawaka will do nothing but enhance the football competition for Warsaw, while providing increased competition across the board. Warsaw to the SAC will never happen and was never a serious possibility in the slightest.

What happens if enrollment decreases at many NLC schools (which is the current trend) and continues to increase at Warsaw?

Does that change the thinking at all?

What about travel?  Isn't the straight shot down Rt 30 easier than trips to South Bend, Elkhart, etc?  

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

@DT and I have continuously smacked heads on this one. There has never been any legitimate thought of Warsaw joining the SAC. Never. Yes, Warsaw is the "big fish" in the NLC size wise. However, they have always received great competition in ALL sports in the NLC. Not a single school dominates across the board in all sports, men's and women's. Warsaw, Northridge, Concord and NorthWood all compete in just about every sport, while Plymouth, Goshen and Wawasee have their spots of competition. Adding Mishawaka will do nothing but enhance the football competition for Warsaw, while providing increased competition across the board. Warsaw to the SAC will never happen and was never a serious possibility in the slightest.

I would agree that there has never been a "legitimate" discussion. After losing Harding and Elmhurst..............which created some very interesting out of conference match-ups that I miss...............the SAC immediately had their sights set on Homestead and Carroll. It made the most sense. Huntington and Warsaw was just an opinion, a back option, an idea that someone from the media suggested...............nothing more, nothing less. In the end, the SAC got what they wanted..............Homestead and Carroll. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Justasportsfan said:

Luers can and will compete in the sac..you don't have alumni with the last name of Smith or Spencer by luck.. they beat 6a Carroll last year and just need 1 or 2 dominate classes to run the table in the sac..

The word is "dominant."  

Most misspelled and misunderstood word in the English language by you goofy millennials.

😁

 

Edited by DT
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Justasportsfan said:

Luers can and will compete in the sac..you don't have alumni with the last name of Smith or Spencer by luck.. they beat 6a Carroll last year and just need 1 or 2 dominate classes to run the table in the sac..

I have no doubt Luers can and will always be a factor in the current SAC.

The bigger question is, "what is the best fit for the Luers athletic program?"

Lets use Mishawaka High School as a case study.

Mishawaka was a founding member of The NIC, a conference blueblood soaking with tradition and community support.  The program was comfortable and at home in The NIC.

Yet, they bolted for the NLC.  Why?

Better long term fit.

More like minded schools in the NLC

More member stability in The NLC.

Better competitive balance in The NLC

Better "fit" in terms of average conference enrollment

Opportunity to forge new rivalries and visit new places.

 

Could any of these reasons apply to the Luers program?

Might they be interested in escaping from FW every once in a while, perhaps like Mishawaka might have been looking ahead to new ventures abroad.

NLC schools take great pride in their conference championship.  No school other than Penn has ever won a NIC title, so they dont understand the feeling.

I would hope that the NE8 wouldnt be so short sighted, provincial and myopic to overlook the possibility of adding a gem like FW Luers.  Luers shares the PP spotlight in The SAC with big brother Dwenger.  Mishawaka wanted out of Penn High Schools shadow.  .  Perhaps at some point, the long shadows of Snider and Dwenger will push Luers to greener pastures as well.

 

Edited by DT
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/9/2019 at 9:12 AM, DT said:

2A Luers has been outscored by 6A conference opponents Carroll and Homestead by the combined score of 93-0 this season

At what point do the overwhelming numbers advantage of the mega schools completely mitigate the inherent built in advantages enjoyed by the small private and disrupt the competitive balance sought after by conferences and the IHSAA?

This situation reminds of Hobart and The Duneland.   Hobart, by far the smallest school in the DAC, dominated conference play for two decades.  Size finally caught up with the Brick program and the school finally left for the smaller Lake athletic

Could Luers join a smaller conference, or go independent?    

Is the program happy to still compete against the big 5a and 6a schools despite the huge enrollment disparity?

 

 

Lol... WHAT????  

Um. Luers beat BOTH of those schools just last year.  In fact, if you want to make the "6A" schools a series against Luers, Luers is 3-3.   A 2A size school going 500 against 6As is perfectly respectable.  

Luers was in the SAC before half the teams currently in the league.  And Luers has their share of championships, too.  (The victory bell was last at Luers in 2015.  Wait... this is still just 2019, right?)  When actually was the last time Carroll or Homestead had it? 

Why in the heck would they leave??

Let's be clear: Luers has always been, still is, and will always be a "team to beat" in the SAC. 

They are having a rebuilding year.  (Small schools have those periodically.)  Also -- they have had 6-9 starters out for each game. There were a number of injuries were bad and... Luers doesn't let kids play if have pretty much any grades trouble at all or any referrals.  ("Student-athlete. The 'student" comes first for a reason.") A lot of those juniors and seniors are in high-level dual-credit and AP courses.  That can hamstring a smaller team at the beginning of the year ...especially a young one, if the seniors are sitting. 

Also, for whatever reason, Luers often seems to start slowly and build up to more success over the course of a season. 

 

But there is no way they will drop out of the SAC.  There were actually two-minds about dropping back down to 2A.  A lot of players and coaches wanted to get their first 3A ring. 

Anyway -- Luers is a top SAC team, overall, and there may be rebuilding years sometimes.  Luers is big on tradition, so they will stay in the SAC.  And... they will win beat both Carroll and Homestead again fairly soon.

Leave the SAC??  I was shocked when I read the question.  I promise:  such a thought has not even crossed the Knights' minds. Lol. 

Luers is big on tradition.

And win or lose... they love a good game and want to play good football. 

Plus... there is even one more young Knapke quarterback waiting in the wings. 

 

Edited by LuersLady
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/9/2019 at 10:24 AM, Mebuck said:

So where would they go? Concordia explored that option and the NE8 said no to private schools. Maybe they should get rid of the coaching staff? Seems that the last change is when the down hill slide started. That is my opinion. 

Kyle took over in 2012.  I know for a fact Luers had the victory bell in the building in the fall of 2015.  Luers made it to semi-state in a class above their official size just last year. 

Luers was 9-5-0 last year and didn't play one single school that was within a hundred students of their size.  Played several "6A"  schools that were larger by the THOUSANDS.   

Fine... 9-5-0 may not be up to the old 15-0 dome-or-bust 4-peat days of Luers yore....  But... Jaylon Freaking Smith was on that team.  

9-5-0 is hardly a terrible season.  Not by any stretch.  And last year is still within human memory, right? 

Come on... what is everyone here even talking about??

Edited by LuersLady
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/9/2019 at 10:35 AM, DT said:

Would be interesting to see Luers and Concordia go to The NE8 in a package deal.  

That would give the SAC the opportunity to schedule OOC games, which many of the schools apparently would like to do.  

I am shocked Concordia looked into it.  Luers did NOT. It has not crossed their minds.  They will stay in the SAC.  It is a great fit for Luers, and they will not leave. 

On 9/9/2019 at 11:16 AM, BLKnights7 said:

This wouldn't help luers very much. Playing the bigger schools helps them prepare for postseason play. I remember in 09 going 4-5 in conference play and turning around and winning state. Logistically wouldn't make sense either leaving the conference. 

One year they went 0-10.  I remember the weight room chants the next year... over and over... "Oh and Ten, never again!" 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/9/2019 at 12:12 PM, DT said:

Times and attitudes change.  15 years ago, the pp zealots were happy to take on all comers, of any size and color

Now, the pps have become more insular.  Take a look at the Circle city Conference as a prime example.   They are more and more competing amongst themselves.   

I think this attitude will continue to take hold as new leadership emerges within the group of pps

We do not see as many pp-public high level matchups like we used to.  

Center Grove - Roncalli.    Carmel - Cathedral.  Etc.  

It's unfortunate but it has happened.  

That is because there are so many privates that got so big in Indy that they could make their own league. ( IPS has closed a crazy number of schools.) 

That won't happen in Fort Wayne. 

The Catholics have a CYO league for parochial elementary schools to play each other in Fort Wayne, but the city isn't big enough to do that with High Schools.  

It is a totally different context than Indy. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/9/2019 at 2:43 PM, Frozen Tundra said:

If anyone would want to leave the SAC, it would be Northrop, Wayne, North Side, or South Side. They might have a good season once or twice a decade but it's hard to overcome the size and tradition of a Snider, Homestead, Carroll, or Dwenger or the advantages of being a private school like a Luers, Concordia, and Dwenger. I think Northrop has the potential to be on that level and compete due to their size, but there's just not a lot of wiggle room to move up unless you have the perfect storm of good players and coaches.

Wait.  What exactly are the supposed "advantages?"   

It cracks me up when people start talking about what they don't know about. 

You clearly don't know how the schools work in The Fort.  Lol.  I hear this nonsense and I automatically know I am dealing with someone who has no idea about Fort Wayne.  

 

Edited by LuersLady
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/10/2019 at 4:26 PM, DT said:

I have no doubt Luers can and will always be a factor in the current SAC.

The bigger question is, "what is the best fit for the Luers athletic program?"

Lets use Mishawaka High School as a case study.

Mishawaka was a founding member of The NIC, a conference blueblood soaking with tradition and community support.  The program was comfortable and at home in The NIC.

Yet, they bolted for the NLC.  Why?

Better long term fit.

More like minded schools in the NLC

More member stability in The NLC.

Better competitive balance in The NLC

Better "fit" in terms of average conference enrollment

Opportunity to forge new rivalries and visit new places.

 

Could any of these reasons apply to the Luers program?

Might they be interested in escaping from FW every once in a while, perhaps like Mishawaka might have been looking ahead to new ventures abroad.

NLC schools take great pride in their conference championship.  No school other than Penn has ever won a NIC title, so they dont understand the feeling.

I would hope that the NE8 wouldnt be so short sighted, provincial and myopic to overlook the possibility of adding a gem like FW Luers.  Luers shares the PP spotlight in The SAC with big brother Dwenger.  Mishawaka wanted out of Penn High Schools shadow.  .  Perhaps at some point, the long shadows of Snider and Dwenger will push Luers to greener pastures as well.

 

Lol.  Nope. Sorry.  I can see why some people might hope so.  But... 

  Luers prides itself on being an underfunded underdog and still coming out on top.  

Luers kids pride themselves on taking on the big boys. 

And, the coaches pragmatically understand that the SAC competition is the best way to prepare for post-season. 

And Luers athletes and fans don't need to drag themselves around the state for games.  They can play fantastic football on a regular schedule and parents and friends can attend every regular game with less than a 30min drive.  

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, LuersLady said:

Wait.  What exactly are the supposed "advantages?"   

It cracks me up when people start talking about what they don't know about. 

You clearly don't know how the schools work in The Fort.  Lol.  I hear this nonsense and I automatically know I am dealing with someone who has no idea about Fort Wayne.  

 

I'm a friend with someone who covers Fort Wayne area football, especially the SAC. Also, dozens of people read my post and never commented to say I was wrong. You're the only one. So maybe you don't know or just aren't understanding what I said.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Frozen Tundra said:

I'm a friend with someone who covers Fort Wayne area football, especially the SAC. Also, dozens of people read my post and never commented to say I was wrong. You're the only one. So maybe you don't know or just aren't understanding what I said.

Lol.  Okay. Please explain to be sure I can understand? What exactly is the p/p "advantage" in Fort Wayne? ???

Edited by LuersLady
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/9/2019 at 6:17 PM, BTF said:

If Luers and Concordia were to leave, the SAC would go after Huntington North and someone else.

Lol.  

Imagine they are talking that Luers can't hang in the SAC and then the talk turns to replacing "outmatched" Luers with Huntington North. 

What is going on?  And why ya wanna do that to poor Huntington North?? 

 

Look -- in The Fort, football is not about enrollment. 

It is mostly about tradition,  and... more recently it has started to become about who has the money to play 7v7 and have year-round professional football training.   

Which is why you are seeing the rise of the schools with moneyed families (ie Carroll, and Homestead... Luers and Snider are not actually moneyed schools, but they are carried by tradition... and Dwenger is dominant because they have both of those things.) 

Huntington North has neither tradition nor do they have moneyed families... and I think Northrop, North Side, and the others have made it clear how that goes over in the SAC.

  

 

Edited by LuersLady
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/10/2019 at 4:26 PM, DT said:

I have no doubt Luers can and will always be a factor in the current SAC.

The bigger question is, "what is the best fit for the Luers athletic program?"

Lets use Mishawaka High School as a case study.

Mishawaka was a founding member of The NIC, a conference blueblood soaking with tradition and community support.  The program was comfortable and at home in The NIC.

Yet, they bolted for the NLC.  Why?

Better long term fit.

More like minded schools in the NLC

More member stability in The NLC.

Better competitive balance in The NLC

Better "fit" in terms of average conference enrollment

Opportunity to forge new rivalries and visit new places.

 

Could any of these reasons apply to the Luers program?

Might they be interested in escaping from FW every once in a while, perhaps like Mishawaka might have been looking ahead to new ventures abroad.

NLC schools take great pride in their conference championship.  No school other than Penn has ever won a NIC title, so they dont understand the feeling.

I would hope that the NE8 wouldnt be so short sighted, provincial and myopic to overlook the possibility of adding a gem like FW Luers.  Luers shares the PP spotlight in The SAC with big brother Dwenger.  Mishawaka wanted out of Penn High Schools shadow.  .  Perhaps at some point, the long shadows of Snider and Dwenger will push Luers to greener pastures as well.

 

But... remember Luers played Penn as one of their "out of conference" games back in the day.  Luers doesn't try to dodge tough teams -- they seek them out! 

 

And Luers does not consider Dwenger a "big" brother.  Luers opened first.

Luers joined the SAC in '60.  Dwenger joined in '65. 

 

The kids *like* being considered an underdog.  They say "Let em sleep." 

 

Edited by LuersLady
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, LuersLady said:

Lol.  Okay. Please explain to slow little old me.  What exactly is the pp "advantage" in Fort Wayne? ???

Ok. So I fear you think I'm implying p/p schools (such as Luers) recruit. That's not what I'm saying at all. Most of that is just unfounded speculation. I only know of one p/p school in which evidence would suggest recruiting does take place but it's not located in Fort Wayne. That's another story though.

So when I talk about advantages, there are many kinds. School size is one. The bigger the pool of students the better your chances of fielding a team with good athletes. 

Coaching is another advantage. If you and I were to magically have two teams of equal playing ability but the head coach of your team was Urban Meyer and the coach of my team was Gerry DiNardo then you're going to have the advantage there.

Economic status is an advantage. Rich kids have more advantages than poor kids due to the wider amount of resources they're able to afford to help improve their playing abilities (i.e.- club athletics, personal trainers/coaches, etc.). Some communities in this state are known for their wealth and, therefore, the public schools within those communities contain a higher number of wealthy students/student-athletes in comparison to schools in other communities..

Tradition is an advantage. There's a reason why kids would rather play football at Michigan than at Rutgers.

P/P has advantages. 
1. Lord knows it's not cheap going to a school like that. It's definitely more expensive than a public school. Yes, I know there are scholarships available for some students but, overall, p/p schools have an economic advantage over a majority of public schools. 
2. That doesn't just include the students. A p/p school that isn't hurting for money can afford better coaches.
3. P/P schools also have the advantage of choosing what students attend their schools. Except in extreme circumstances, public schools can't deny a student that wants to enroll. This is especially advantageous for P/P schools when competing against public schools of a similar enrollment, most particularly if the P/P school has a smaller enrollment. A small, exclusive pool of wealthy students against a small school from a poor, rural area can be an ugly match-up.

There might be more advantages than what I listed but these are the big three that come to mind. Now there's no guarantee that these advantages listed above (or any others I missed) will lead a school (public or p/p) to success but at least the door is there for them. Not every school can say that. 

As far as my original post is concerned, I could've worded it a little better. I said: "...but it's hard to overcome the size and tradition of a Snider, Homestead, Carroll, or Dwenger or the advantages of being a private school like a Luers, Concordia, and Dwenger."
I should've said: "...but it's hard to overcome the size of a Snider, Homestead, or Carroll; the tradition of a Snider, Dwenger, or Luers; or the advantages of being a private school like a Luers, Concordia, or Dwenger."

To sum it all up, Luers has 11 state titles in football which is the third-most in Indiana behind two other p/p schools (Cathedral and Chatard). All 11 of Luers' state titles came at the 2A level so they are definitely a dominant force among the smaller schools in the state. But Luers is also successful in the SAC despite being the smallest school. If you were to replace Luers in the SAC with any other 2A school, do you think that school would succeed on a consistent basis? Maybe a handful would. Would they replicate or exceed Luers' success? Highly doubtful. That's because the advantages of being a private school and a traditional power has allowed Luers to succeed in a conference competing against much larger (school size) competition. As the bigger schools keep getting bigger, Luers is still able to compete. I know their football numbers have shrunk the last couple of years but here are the facts.

Over the last 15 years, Luers has averaged a fourth-place finish in the SAC. That's the fourth-best out of the 12 schools that have been in the SAC during that time frame (behind Snider, Dwenger, and Homestead). If you only include the eight schools that have been in the SAC over the last 15 years then Luers is the third-best. So the smallest school in the conference has been better than two-thirds of its SAC competition. 

So please don't tell me Luers doesn't have advantages. It's not a bad thing. A lot of schools have them, public or p/p. And these advantages are why I believe Luers belongs in the SAC, despite whatever @DT says. He's only looking at a small sample size. And in the sample size he's looking at, Luers has never finished in the bottom half of the conference.

Edited by Frozen Tundra
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Turnovers really hurt the Knights.  THey may match up well until Regionals in 2A, especially if they keep the ball on the ground or throw to the receivers that can get by slower defenses.  I'm trying to be careful, but when will the next Knapke make some appearances?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/14/2019 at 12:18 AM, LuersLady said:

But... remember Luers played Penn as one of their "out of conference" games back in the day.  Luers doesn't try to dodge tough teams -- they seek them out! 

 

And Luers does not consider Dwenger a "big" brother.  Luers opened first.

Luers joined the SAC in '60.  Dwenger joined in '65. 

 

The kids *like* being considered an underdog.  They say "Let em sleep." 

 

http://ifca.zebras.net/ifca/candler/foot-history/nei/fw_luers.htm

 

 

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
On 9/14/2019 at 3:10 AM, Frozen Tundra said:

Ok. So I fear you think I'm implying p/p schools (such as Luers) recruit. That's not what I'm saying at all. Most of that is just unfounded speculation. I only know of one p/p school in which evidence would suggest recruiting does take place but it's not located in Fort Wayne. That's another story though.

So when I talk about advantages, there are many kinds. School size is one. The bigger the pool of students the better your chances of fielding a team with good athletes. 

Coaching is another advantage. If you and I were to magically have two teams of equal playing ability but the head coach of your team was Urban Meyer and the coach of my team was Gerry DiNardo then you're going to have the advantage there.

Economic status is an advantage. Rich kids have more advantages than poor kids due to the wider amount of resources they're able to afford to help improve their playing abilities (i.e.- club athletics, personal trainers/coaches, etc.). Some communities in this state are known for their wealth and, therefore, the public schools within those communities contain a higher number of wealthy students/student-athletes in comparison to schools in other communities..

Tradition is an advantage. There's a reason why kids would rather play football at Michigan than at Rutgers.

P/P has advantages. 
1. Lord knows it's not cheap going to a school like that. It's definitely more expensive than a public school. Yes, I know there are scholarships available for some students but, overall, p/p schools have an economic advantage over a majority of public schools. 
2. That doesn't just include the students. A p/p school that isn't hurting for money can afford better coaches.
3. P/P schools also have the advantage of choosing what students attend their schools. Except in extreme circumstances, public schools can't deny a student that wants to enroll. This is especially advantageous for P/P schools when competing against public schools of a similar enrollment, most particularly if the P/P school has a smaller enrollment. A small, exclusive pool of wealthy students against a small school from a poor, rural area can be an ugly match-up.

There might be more advantages than what I listed but these are the big three that come to mind. Now there's no guarantee that these advantages listed above (or any others I missed) will lead a school (public or p/p) to success but at least the door is there for them. Not every school can say that. 

As far as my original post is concerned, I could've worded it a little better. I said: "...but it's hard to overcome the size and tradition of a Snider, Homestead, Carroll, or Dwenger or the advantages of being a private school like a Luers, Concordia, and Dwenger."
I should've said: "...but it's hard to overcome the size of a Snider, Homestead, or Carroll; the tradition of a Snider, Dwenger, or Luers; or the advantages of being a private school like a Luers, Concordia, or Dwenger."

To sum it all up, Luers has 11 state titles in football which is the third-most in Indiana behind two other p/p schools (Cathedral and Chatard). All 11 of Luers' state titles came at the 2A level so they are definitely a dominant force among the smaller schools in the state. But Luers is also successful in the SAC despite being the smallest school. If you were to replace Luers in the SAC with any other 2A school, do you think that school would succeed on a consistent basis? Maybe a handful would. Would they replicate or exceed Luers' success? Highly doubtful. That's because the advantages of being a private school and a traditional power has allowed Luers to succeed in a conference competing against much larger (school size) competition. As the bigger schools keep getting bigger, Luers is still able to compete. I know their football numbers have shrunk the last couple of years but here are the facts.

Over the last 15 years, Luers has averaged a fourth-place finish in the SAC. That's the fourth-best out of the 12 schools that have been in the SAC during that time frame (behind Snider, Dwenger, and Homestead). If you only include the eight schools that have been in the SAC over the last 15 years then Luers is the third-best. So the smallest school in the conference has been better than two-thirds of its SAC competition. 

So please don't tell me Luers doesn't have advantages. It's not a bad thing. A lot of schools have them, public or p/p. And these advantages are why I believe Luers belongs in the SAC, despite whatever @DT says. He's only looking at a small sample size. And in the sample size he's looking at, Luers has never finished in the bottom half of the conference.

1. Luers is not a private school with money.  Luers is VERY POOR.  Luers is Title I eligible!  Well over 80% of Luers students are on scholarship. 

2. The Luers coach gets paid less than the public school coaches in Fort Wayne.  He is the Luers coach because he is a Luers grad.  In fact, all or darn-close-to-all of the Luers football coaches are Luers grads. And several are volunteers...

( For that matter, it is not just coaches who make less at Luers;  Luers teachers make just over 60% of what they would make at a public school.)

3.  Refer back to my response to #1. But, long story short: I think you have the wrong idea about the Luers demographics.  

 

Also -- I understand that you are not talking about "recruiting" but I still want to point out that Fort Wayne has fully open enrollment in all public schools...  so SNIDER can (and does!) pull athletes from anywhere in Fort Wayne, just as much as Luers/Dwenger/Concordia can, without charging any tuition!  

Edited by LuersLady
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...