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2024 6A Who can win it all?


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9 minutes ago, KmartGiant said:

Oh enrollment was mentioned and no that alone is not a key. As I have already stated, if enrollment is a major player in 6A football, then it should be in all sports. BD is marginal in most of their sports and they are a mega school. The fact is the program, commitment to youth leagues is the key. Great coaches and support from the school is vital. The 2 people who referred to my comments as "ignorance"  are people don't know me and show their maturity level. Pretty pathetic. Act like adults people. Don't talk down to someone you don't know. Respect their opinions or don't respond. I know you wouldn't call me ignorant to my face, so don't do it on here. Be an adult.

You are too funny. Maybe we can the DAC Monger back on here, like back in the old days of the forum.

I don’t like being misquoted…where did I call you “ignorant?”

Seems like you’re the one doing the name calling.

Edited by temptation
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6 minutes ago, KmartGiant said:

Oh enrollment was mentioned and no that alone is not a key. As I have already stated, if enrollment is a major player in 6A football, then it should be in all sports. BD is marginal in most of their sports and they are a mega school. The fact is the program, commitment to youth leagues is the key. Great coaches and support from the school is vital. The 2 people who referred to my comments as "ignorance"  are people don't know me and show their maturity level. Pretty pathetic. Act like adults people. Don't talk down to someone you don't know. Respect their opinions or don't respond. I know you wouldn't call me ignorant to my face, so don't do it on here. Be an adult.

You are too funny. Maybe we can the DAC Monger back on here, like back in the old days of the forum.

Based on 10th-12th grade statistics, roughly 75% of Ben Davis students quality for free or reduced lunches. I can't think of a single HS in Indiana that has ever been good at Golf, Tennis or Swimming with those statistics. Baseball, Softball, and Scoccer are a stretch as well. 

Community buy in for basketball and football is there. I've seen it myself at the grassroots level when Wayne Township teams come up to Hamilton County. The coaching and facilities for basketball/football at Ben Davis are also very good. It's OK to admit having that level of committment AND over 4,000 student is a huge advantage. 

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14 minutes ago, Boilernation said:

Based on 10th-12th grade statistics, roughly 75% of Ben Davis students quality for free or reduced lunches. I can't think of a single HS in Indiana that has ever been good at Golf, Tennis or Swimming with those statistics. Baseball, Softball, and Scoccer are a stretch as well. 

Community buy in for basketball and football is there. I've seen it myself at the grassroots level when Wayne Township teams come up to Hamilton County. The coaching and facilities for basketball/football at Ben Davis are also very good. It's OK to admit having that level of committment AND over 4,000 student is a huge advantage. 

Been awhile....but my wife is a BD graduate....won 2 state titles in swimming and individual titles...also swam on a full ride at the D1 level....had multiple D1 offers.

I just provided you several schools that have larger enrollments and I would contend solid coaches, yet are not rolling in football.  To KMartGiants point, there more in the equation of success in football that just enrollment.  If enrollment was king, many more top 10 to top 15 schools would be much more dominant.

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31 minutes ago, temptation said:

I don’t like being misquoted…where did I call you “ignorant?”

Seems like you’re the one doing the name calling.

I never said you did. I tend to agree with you on most conversations. Apologize if you thought I was referring to you. The ignorance is bliss comment is who I was referring to.

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2 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Been awhile....but my wife is a BD graduate....won 2 state titles in swimming and individual titles...also swam on a full ride at the D1 level....had multiple D1 offers.

I just provided you several schools that have larger enrollments and I would contend solid coaches, yet are not rolling in football.  To KMartGiants point, there more in the equation of success in football that just enrollment.  If enrollment was king, many more top 10 to top 15 schools would be much more dominant.

And my guess would be the demographics of Ben Davis were drastically different when your wife was a student. I didn't say it's all about enrollment. I also mentioned the buy in from the community for a given sport and coaching. A large enrollment is just icing on the cake when you already have the talent and coaching.

You've named quite a few schools where baseball is more important than football. And the results show (Lake Central / Noblesville). Besides, speaking as someone who is typically at a Hoosier Crossroads football game on Friday nights, we all know Noblesville football is more a victim of the Conference and Sectional they reside in. Crown Point is finally taking football serioiusly and brought in a great coach. It faired well for them last year until they met a team with FAR more superior talent and depth. I have a feeling Lake Central football will continue to struggle as they're in the middle of a baseball hotbed (Lake Central, Illiana Christian, Hanover Central, Andrean) and trying to compete at 6A in football.

I have no clue about Franklin Central. I'm not very familiar with the South Side. I have been to the Center Grove area a lot since the mid '90's. I would say a majority of their school district is white collar families. That helps tremendously. They also have community buy in at the feeder systems and one of the best HS football coaches the state has ever produced. Center Grove is an outlier. They are not the norm for any school of their size.

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2 minutes ago, Boilernation said:

And my guess would be the demographics of Ben Davis were drastically different when your wife was a student. I didn't say it's all about enrollment. I also mentioned the buy in from the community for a given sport and coaching. A large enrollment is just icing on the cake when you already have the talent and coaching.

You've named quite a few schools where baseball is more important than football. And the results show (Lake Central / Noblesville). Besides, speaking as someone who is typically at a Hoosier Crossroads football game on Friday nights, we all know Noblesville football is more a victim of the Conference and Sectional they reside in. Crown Point is finally taking football serioiusly and brought in a great coach. It faired well for them last year until they met a team with FAR more superior talent and depth. I have a feeling Lake Central football will continue to struggle as they're in the middle of a baseball hotbed (Lake Central, Illiana Christian, Hanover Central, Andrean) and trying to compete at 6A in football.

I have no clue about Franklin Central. I'm not very familiar with the South Side. I have been to the Center Grove area a lot since the mid '90's. I would say a majority of their school district is white collar families. That helps tremendously. They also have community buy in at the feeder systems and one of the best HS football coaches the state has ever produced. Center Grove is an outlier. They are not the norm for any school of their size.

Not one person has claimed it is solely enrollment and this is one of a handful of cyclical discussions on this board.

BD/Warren can overcome their socioeconomic disadvantage BECAUSE of their large enrollment.  However, eventually enrollment reaches a point of diminishing returns.  
 

Carmel, the other “mega school” discussed in this thread has both socioeconomics and enrollment on their side which is why I believe 2024 is a put up or shut up year for the Hounds.

Comparing 1990’s BD to 2024 BD is asinine by the way.

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6 minutes ago, KmartGiant said:

I never said you did. I tend to agree with you on most conversations. Apologize if you thought I was referring to you. The ignorance is bliss comment is who I was referring to.

My apologies. 

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54 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

If its all about enrollment...then explain why schools such as North Central, Avon and Franklin Central aren't winning more post season tournaments (sectional and above) in football.  All 3 schools are in the top 10 in terms of enrollment...FC has a great football coach that has won multiple state titles at the largest class.  Not buying completely in the social economic theory either, especially with these 3 schools.

Same question for Noblesville, Crown Point, Elkhart, Lake Central, etc.  (11-15th respectively)  

Meanwhile, CG's enrollment shot up from 17th to 16th......

If it's not about enrollment, I'd rather you explain to me why the three largest schools have 34 state titles combined. Each one of those schools have at least 11 titles and no one else in 6A or the former 5A is even close.

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The whole point of this conversation involved enrollment. No on said enrollment is the sole reason of the top 4 but it can't be ignored. The big 4 in 6A are the mostly the biggest. My whole point is you have to have a program. BD has the numbers to be good in swimming, tennis, golf, baseball, softball and soccer. However, the school isn't invested in those sports. Football and basketball is their bread and butter. Now if BD ever decided to put some resources into the other sports, then they could compete.  I remember the the days when BD girls swimming had Sherry Cartwright and Buffy Horlander.  One went to UM and one to USC if I recall. Sorry if I am wrong. The fact of the matter is this simply: Have a program, a feeder system and a coaching staff who can deliver your program to a top level. Anyone know why zero teams will never beat Carmel in girls swimming? I know the answer and it's beyond 30 years for anyone to have the answer. It's actually simple.  It's called a program and feeder system.

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1 minute ago, BTF said:

If it's not about enrollment, I'd rather you explain to me why the three largest schools have 34 state titles combined. Each one of those schools have at least 11 titles and no one else in 6A or the former 5A is even close.

Because their enrollment is SO much larger than the remaining schools in 6A.  You can combine 6A schools at the bottom of the class and still fall short of 4500-5000 (Carmel and BD).  Eventually that takes its toll as we discussed with Cathedral yesterday.

People get too caught up in their feelings and feel personally attacked as if these statistics are intended to diminish the other factors that are poured into a winning program.

 

3 minutes ago, KmartGiant said:

The whole point of this conversation involved enrollment. No on said enrollment is the sole reason of the top 4 but it can't be ignored. The big 4 in 6A are the mostly the biggest. My whole point is you have to have a program. BD has the numbers to be good in swimming, tennis, golf, baseball, softball and soccer. However, the school isn't invested in those sports. Football and basketball is their bread and butter. Now if BD ever decided to put some resources into the other sports, then they could compete.  I remember the the days when BD girls swimming had Sherry Cartwright and Buffy Horlander.  One went to UM and one to USC if I recall. Sorry if I am wrong. The fact of the matter is this simply: Have a program, a feeder system and a coaching staff who can deliver your program to a top level. Anyone know why zero teams will never beat Carmel in girls swimming? I know the answer and it's beyond 30 years for anyone to have the answer. It's actually simple.  It's called a program and feeder system.

It’s not that simple unfortunately.

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55 minutes ago, KmartGiant said:

Oh enrollment was mentioned and no that alone is not a key. As I have already stated, if enrollment is a major player in 6A football, then it should be in all sports. BD is marginal in most of their sports and they are a mega school. The fact is the program, commitment to youth leagues is the key. Great coaches and support from the school is vital. The 2 people who referred to my comments as "ignorance"  are people don't know me and show their maturity level. Pretty pathetic. Act like adults people. Don't talk down to someone you don't know. Respect their opinions or don't respond. I know you wouldn't call me ignorant to my face, so don't do it on here. Be an adult.

You are too funny. Maybe we can the DAC Monger back on here, like back in the old days of the forum.

Ben Davis will never compete with the suburban schools in Country Club sports, no matter the enrollment. It just won't happen. 

In all fairness. Referring to hard working programs as "irrelevant" and "chumps" isn't very mature either. It's one thing to have an opinion, entirely another to diminish programs that work their butts off. 

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1 minute ago, BTF said:

Ben Davis will never compete with the suburban schools in Country Club sports, no matter the enrollment. It just won't happen. 

In all fairness. Referring to hard working programs as "irrelevant" and "chumps" isn't very mature either. It's one thing to have an opinion, entirely another to diminish programs that work their butts off. 

Your first paragraph is spot on but can you expand on why for those in the back?

(Do it in ALL CAPS preferably.)

Edited by temptation
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18 minutes ago, Boilernation said:

And my guess would be the demographics of Ben Davis were drastically different when your wife was a student. I didn't say it's all about enrollment. I also mentioned the buy in from the community for a given sport and coaching. A large enrollment is just icing on the cake when you already have the talent and coaching.

 

Bingo.

Bingo.

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5 minutes ago, temptation said:

Your first paragraph is spot on but can you expand on why for those in the back?

(Do it in ALL CAPS preferably.)

SOCIOECONOMIC FACTORS. LEARNING TO PLAY TENNIS GOLF AND SWIMMING REQURIRES MONEY. SUBURBAN KIDS HAVE MORE OF IT........AND MORE FACILIITIES TO LEARN AT.

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18 minutes ago, BTF said:

Ben Davis will never compete with the suburban schools in Country Club sports, no matter the enrollment. It just won't happen. 

In all fairness. Referring to hard working programs as "irrelevant" and "chumps" isn't very mature either. It's one thing to have an opinion, entirely another to diminish programs that work their butts off. 

Sometimes the truth hurts. It's the reality of the situation. Don't ever talk to me about maturity. I called out the truth. Be a contender or a pretender, facts are facts.

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22 minutes ago, BTF said:

Ben Davis will never compete with the suburban schools in Country Club sports, no matter the enrollment. It just won't happen. 

In all fairness. Referring to hard working programs as "irrelevant" and "chumps" isn't very mature either. It's one thing to have an opinion, entirely another to diminish programs that work their butts off. 

So enrollment doesn't factor in HS sports. Just football and basketball. Country club sports are about wealthy, suburban schools then? Not about support and coaching? Funny BD had a golf state championship team in the 90's and a couple of CC boys team titles. Country club sports? Guess it was luck back then. It's about the program. Wake up people.  Develop a program and you can be successful.

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10 minutes ago, KmartGiant said:

Sometimes the truth hurts. It's the reality of the situation. Don't ever talk to me about maturity. I called out the truth. Be a contender or a pretender, facts are facts.

What if ignorance is also the truth? 

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6 minutes ago, KmartGiant said:

So enrollment doesn't factor in HS sports. Just football and basketball. Country club sports are about wealthy, suburban schools then? Not about support and coaching? Funny BD had a golf state championship team in the 90's and a couple of CC boys team titles. Country club sports? Guess it was luck back then. It's about the program. Wake up people.  Develop a program and you can be successful.

Temptation hit the nail on the head. You can't compare Ben Davis now to how things were in the 90's...................C'MON MAN.

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15 minutes ago, BTF said:

Temptation hit the nail on the head. You can't compare Ben Davis now to how things were in the 90's...................C'MON MAN.

1992 to be exact. Back when the population of Plainfield, Avon and Brownsburg were still cornfields away from the Wayne Township boundary of Raceway Road.

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1 hour ago, BTF said:

SOCIOECONOMIC FACTORS. LEARNING TO PLAY TENNIS GOLF AND SWIMMING REQURIRES MONEY. SUBURBAN KIDS HAVE MORE OF IT........AND MORE FACILIITIES TO LEARN AT.

u aint need money to learn how to swim

 

all you need is a body of water and a will to live

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22 minutes ago, Boilernation said:

1992 to be exact. Back when the population of Plainfield, Avon and Brownsburg were still cornfields away from the Wayne Township boundary of Raceway Road.

So explain to me what Plainfield, Avon and Brownsburg have won since the 90's. Your example is moot. Those schools are haven't won crap. May a few band titles.

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