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Week 4 in the MIC/HCC


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13 hours ago, Warren05 said:

For some team in the MIC this is a true statement. CG vs. Warren 2010 is a great example of 2 teams beating th holy dog snott out of eachother week 9 then both losing in the 1st round of sectionals. 

 

Then you could take center Grove 2015. They had 5 game they won by 7 or less points including a 1 point OT win over Avon to claim and undefeated state championship season. 

 

The MIC can be both a blessing and a curse some years for teams in the conference. 

That brutal SEC schedule sure has doomed Alabama 6 times over the past decade and is also probably why they lost to Clemson handily last January too huh?

Can't have it both ways and try to tell the story AFTER the fact...

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17 minutes ago, Temptation said:

That brutal SEC schedule sure has doomed Alabama 6 times over the past decade and is also probably why they lost to Clemson handily last January too huh?

Can't have it both ways and try to tell the story AFTER the fact...

In the last 10 year the SEC has had 2 teams win National championships. In the past 10 year the MIC has had 4 different teams win state titles. Each year any of those 4 teams has the ability to win a state title but only 1 does because the schedule prepares that 1 team to win it all. The other 3 teams most the time gets knocked out by another MIC team. 

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39 minutes ago, Warren05 said:

In the last 10 year the SEC has had 2 teams win National championships. In the past 10 year the MIC has had 4 different teams win state titles. Each year any of those 4 teams has the ability to win a state title but only 1 does because the schedule prepares that 1 team to win it all. The other 3 teams most the time gets knocked out by another MIC team. 

The schedule preparing/not preparing a team is an overrated idiom used way too frequently in my opinion.  At the college level, Boise State, and UCF football have done well for themselves and shown well on the big stage.  Butler basketball in the mid 2000's along with Wichita State, Loyola (IL), Gonzaga, etc.. have done just fine for themselves.

Pioneer and Linton football were ridiculed for years about "not being prepared in the regular season" due to a lack of schedule strength and have both won state title recently.

Football is a contest that comes down to a handful of plays and there is a lot of luck involved.  It's about executing, staying penalty free, etc...

ONE missed tackle can cost a team a game.  Was that tackle missed because the team did not see enough regular season competition?  You'd have a hard time convincing me.

ONE holding call can cost a team a game.  Get an official who is willing to throw the flag that another may not have been?  You lose.

  The "schedule preparing" statistic is often overrated.

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38 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

Boise State and Central Florida are excellent programs....but they don't play for titles.  Its a true blessing if they earn a Jan 1 bowl game.  

Drop them both in the SEC or Big 10 and let's see if they run the table. I think we all know that answer.  Doesn't mean they won't pull occasional upsets, but day in and day out, they will not be at the top of those conferences.

Iron does sharpen iron....when its not broken first.

BTW, what has Butler done since Brad Stevens moved on?  Your examples, other than Gonzaga which is a longer-term power, are outliers.

In the current college system, they never get a chance though UCF beat an SEC school when given the opportunity and Boise beat Oklahoma when given the opportunity.

Butler leaving for the Big East was the problem, not Stevens.  A separate argument.  

 

 

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MIC:

Ben Davis @ Center Grove - Center Grove gets the 2019 label of "best 0-3 team in the state" and meets a BD team that needed one stop to hold off an improving Pike squad last week, and got it.  Still no word on Steele though I can tell you based on what I saw, he is not on crutches, so I think he'll be back at some point this season.  I like CG either way.  Gimme Trojans 30-17.  Trojans Win here, its gonna be a long year for the Giants.

Carmel @ Pike - Pike CAN keep this one close as they showed tremendous resolve and pushed BD to the limit last week.  Carmel is coming off of an emotional rivalry win and has to hit the road.  I think the Hounds prevail but its closer than many think.  Carmel 24-13. Carmel wins here in a blowout......

Lawrence North @ North Central (Indy) - I can't figure either of these teams out but both are coming off of disappointing losses.  I think the winner here may honestly be the best of the second tier, depending on how LC progresses.  I'll give a slight edge to North Central (Indy) at home.  20-17.   Toss up game here, Ill take LN by 3

Warren Central @ Lawrence Central  - The Warriors hit the road for the first time this season and LC is coming off of a big rivalry win last season.  Strength vs strength as the LC offense can score and the Warren D is stout.  Taking Xs and Os out of the equation completely here, I smell an upset.  Give me Lawrence Central 31-27.  Warren wins 28-7

HCC:

Brownsburg @ Avon - The game of the week and my top two teams in 6a at this point.  Avon has run roughshod through three opponents and last week may have been their most complete game of the season at HSE.  They will be jacked up in Hendricks County for this time as Avon is hitting its home turf for the first time.  Brownsburg has weapons upon weapons and is seeking revenge after last season's sectional disappointment.  Winner here is the favorite in the conference.  Taking the easy way out.  I think Brownsburg is the better team but the home crowd propels Avon 34-31.  Avon on a Mission: Wins by A TD

Hamilton Southeastern @ Fishers - The annual "Mudsock game" should be a classic.  Fishers has been a nice surprise and could challenge for the conference title should the Brownsburg/Avon winner slip up elsewhere.  I expect this one to be a low scoring street fight.  Fishers 20-14.   Fishers in a close one. 

Noblesville @ Westfield - The 'Rocks are climbing the polls and continue to impress.  Noblesville still looking for its breakthrough.  Gimme Westfield big.  37-14. THis game is always close regardless of Records... We don't like eachother:)   Rocks by a TD.

Zionsville @ Franklin Central - This one looks to be a good one which I am not sure many would have said 4 weeks ago.  Zionsville is still licking its wounds from last weekend as is Franklin Central.  The Flashes are improving at this one would be a statement win but I am going to go with Zionsville 24-20.    FC has some key injuries on Defense, but Zionsville is porous on Defense as well.   Z'ville by a TD.

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1 hour ago, TrojanDad said:

Sure UCF and Boise can win some big games...never said they couldn't.  But it also doesn't mean they would consistently be at the top of those conferences.

According to 247 in 2017, Boise was 20-21 against Power 5 conferences lifetime.  Respectable yes....upper echelon of those conferences....no.  Many of these wins against Power 5 schools were not against the elite of Power 5 conferences.  They were 0-2 against the Big 10, and 1-5 against the SEC.

We will agree to disagree about the impact of Brad Stevens on Butler's bball program.

Its not like UCF and Boise NEED to win consistently in those conferences.  Its a one game, winner take all format, not a best of 7.  Give them a chance.

It was even quoted above as many times the regular season MIC winner got bounced in the tournament while the 2-3rd place team won the trophy.  Would those teams trade their state title for a conference one?  Some people watch ESPN and blindly follow these story lines about conference strength and games meaning more etc...

And Butler was making deep runs before Stevens got there.  Great coach who took Butler to the next level but once again, in a winner take all/one game format, things happen.  Then their heads got too big and they are an "also ran" in the Big East (once again, another argument for another forum), which is a decision I'm sure they don't regret financially, but do so athletically.

 

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1 hour ago, Temptation said:

 

And Butler was making deep runs before Stevens got there.  Great coach who took Butler to the next level but once again, in a winner take all/one game format, things happen.  Then their heads got too big and they are an "also ran" in the Big East (once again, another argument for another forum), which is a decision I'm sure they don't regret financially, but do so athletically.

 

I know we’re straying off subject but Butler’s 2020 class is already top 20 in the country and could end up top 10. 

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1 hour ago, Coach P said:

MIC Central 31-27.  Warren wins 28-7

HCC:

Brownsburg @ Avon - The game of the week and my top two teams in 6a at this point.  Avon has run roughshod through three opponents and last week may have been their most complete game of the season at HSE.  They will be jacked up in Hendricks County for this time as Avon is hitting its home turf for the first time.  Brownsburg has weapons upon weapons and is seeking revenge after last season's sectional disappointment.  Winner here is the favorite in the conference.  Taking the easy way out.  I think Brownsburg is the better team but the home crowd propels Avon 34-31.  Avon on a Mission: Wins by A TD

 

What “mission” is Avon partaking?

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11 hours ago, Temptation said:

Whatever fits the narrative that particular year...

The narrative is that the MIC is the best conference hands down until someone else can beat them when it matters. Actually, that's not a narrative, it's fact. Brownsburg was undefeated last year, they get hammered by Avon, who in turn gets handled by a team that finished 4th in the MIC a year ago. 

Your Alabama example isn't relevant because they don't play everyone in their conference a second time. Perhaps a more relevant example would be 2017 Georgia. They won the SEC, but lost the national title to a team in their conference. 

The MIC has been toppled twice since 2001. All the good programs in Indiana and most of them hardly stay competitive in the tournament vs the MIC with the exception of 2 years. Oh, and one of those years the team joined the MIC a year later and was coached by a guy who is 62-17 at the job he left them for. 

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Also, there isn't a narrative that when you lose in the tournament, it's because the schedule grinds you down. It's because there's been an imbalance in the way the draw goes. Carmel goes North while the other 7 go south. But that's changing next year which means the MIC will cannibalize itself even more. They've eliminated the possibility of an all MIC title game because they see it mostly inevitable every year unless Carmel has had a down year.  

Until proven otherwise, beginning next season, the 6A state championship game could effectively be the south semi state 

Edited by WarrenGrad12
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13 minutes ago, WarrenGrad12 said:

Also, there isn't a narrative that when you lose in the tournament, it's because the schedule grinds you down. It's because there's been an imbalance in the way the draw goes. Carmel goes North while the other 7 go south. But that's changing next year which means the MIC will cannibalize itself even more. They've eliminated the possibility of an all MIC title game because they see it mostly inevitable every year unless Carmel has had a down year.  

Until proven otherwise, beginning next season, the 6A state championship game could effectively be the south semi state 

I don’t disagree with any of your points.  Just pointing out the “coach spin” that takes place every October.

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21 minutes ago, Temptation said:

I don’t disagree with any of your points.  Just pointing out the “coach spin” that takes place every October.

I get it. I'm sure every coach will spin it "We had a great season, won the MIC, did good." One convo I had with someone well involved with a MIC team and he said, "Winning the MIC shows you are capable of winning state but once week 9 ends, it's back to 50-50 unless you have one of those real special teams."

And under the current format, that's correct. Whether you go 7-0 in the MIC or 0-7, you're starting from the same place come tourney time. 

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2 hours ago, Temptation said:

Evens out.  I thought LC could keep up with Warren.

LC looked miles better than they did last year. They have some legit speed and playmakers. Their defense has a long way to go, however. But LC did return 2 kicks for TDs, so that's something Warren has to absolutely clean up. 

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14 hours ago, WarrenGrad12 said:

Well I'm the genius who thought BD might have a shot vs Center Grove. 🤦🏻‍♂️

BD is not responding to adversity very well. Had the chance to be in the lead at halftime, but the pick six on the first possession of the second half seemed to devastate the team. Friday night will be a major challenge...hoping we have something for WC.

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22 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

BD is not responding to adversity very well. Had the chance to be in the lead at halftime, but the pick six on the first possession of the second half seemed to devastate the team. Friday night will be a major challenge...hoping we have something for WC.

I'm sure the Giants will get up for a long standing rivalry game. I'll be there next week

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2 hours ago, BDGiant93 said:

BD is not responding to adversity very well. Had the chance to be in the lead at halftime, but the pick six on the first possession of the second half seemed to devastate the team. Friday night will be a major challenge...hoping we have something for WC.

Rivalry games are always different animals. Especially at BD. Coming off a tough loss, I'm sure they'll be ready to play. 

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I think it's pretty obvious that the "grind of the MIC" doesn't apply this year, nor does it apply every year like alot of MIC schools and supporters like to claim.  Let's be honest about it. This year Warren, Carmel and Center Grove are very good teams, no one else is any more than average at best.  

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1 hour ago, dmizers3 said:

I think it's pretty obvious that the "grind of the MIC" doesn't apply this year, nor does it apply every year like alot of MIC schools and supporters like to claim.  Let's be honest about it. This year Warren, Carmel and Center Grove are very good teams, no one else is any more than average at best.  

That's 3 teams of an 8 team league. And this is in a down year. Last year there were 4 very very good teams and this is in a stretch where Ben Davis is down. 

15 of the last 17 with just one school managing to repeat in that span. Last 4 years, 4 different winners. Same conference. But yeah, totally not a grind every year. 

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8 minutes ago, WarrenGrad12 said:

That's 3 teams of an 8 team league. And this is in a down year. Last year there were 4 very very good teams and this is in a stretch where Ben Davis is down. 

15 of the last 17 with just one school managing to repeat in that span. Last 4 years, 4 different winners. Same conference. But yeah, totally not a grind every year. 

Thank you for making my point in regards to this year.  And different winners year after year doesn't equal a grind, nor does it mean 5 or 6 teams in the league are tough year in and year out.  You can get defensive all you want.  But facts are facts and my point stands, definitely not a "grind" this year nor is it every year.  Some years sure, maybe even quite a bit, but more often than not I'd say it's no more than 3 deep.  Which is still better than most but 2 tough conference games in a 9 game regular season hardly constitutes a grind.

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The HCC seems to have much better balance from top to bottom.  More competitive games week to week.  And honestly, if your not connected to the BD- WC game, the matchup has gotten somewhat stale.  Not sure why, just has.  Maybe they play too often, taking the tournament into account.  The MIC could really use a shakeup.  It needs some fresh blood or something new to regenerate interest.  Maybe the Lawrence schools should be asked to leave like the Terre Haute schools were and some new programs like Avon, Cathedral or Brownsburg added.  

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15 hours ago, dmizers3 said:

Thank you for making my point in regards to this year.  And different winners year after year doesn't equal a grind, nor does it mean 5 or 6 teams in the league are tough year in and year out.  You can get defensive all you want.  But facts are facts and my point stands, definitely not a "grind" this year nor is it every year.  Some years sure, maybe even quite a bit, but more often than not I'd say it's no more than 3 deep.  Which is still better than most but 2 tough conference games in a 9 game regular season hardly constitutes a grind.

Great points.  Even the 2-3 “bottom feeders” (for lack of a better phrase) usually come up and snatch a victory or two from the top tier but it just hasn’t happened this year.

Pike’s doors certainly were not blown off by Carmel yet the game was never really in doubt.

Its a three team league this year with some mediocrity beyond that.  I’m still waiting for that big upset in the league but this may be the year where the top three simply roll.

2-3 tough games hardly insinuates a “grind” but the other 5 are not door mats.

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About 5 tears ago the MIC wanted the HCC minus the Lafayete schools to join them. At that time, there was not interest by the HCC. It did go for a vote though.  I do not think there would be an interest now either  by any of the HCC teams. It doesn't make economic sense or does it make sense across all sports. The HCC is probably the second best Conference in football and gaining, the second best in basketball and probably the best baseball conference in the state. 

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