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Muda69

Lutheran at Shortridge football canceled due to referee shortage.

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On 9/14/2019 at 6:33 PM, slice60 said:

I expect more games to be scheduled for Saturdays in the future.

Old Uncle Mark would be very happy 

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On 9/14/2019 at 1:50 PM, BDGiant93 said:

I know Ben Davis has contracted officials years in advance. Is it possible something like that has fallen through the cracks?

 

I am already scheduling games in the '24 and '25 season!

 

I actually have a BD game in 21

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5 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

Doesn't Illinois play their JV games prior to Varsity games on Friday nights??  

To anyone-

If so, same crew used for both games?

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12 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

Doesn't Illinois play their JV games prior to Varsity games on Friday nights??  

Some states do this. Not sure about Illinois.

11 minutes ago, DannEllenwood said:

To anyone-

If so, same crew used for both games?

In some cases yes and some cases no. Depends on the state or region. It could be a difficult night physically to try to do both. Exhaustion can lead to poor mechanics and poor judgement so you have to be careful with that. I'll have 5-6 miles of steps for most high school games.

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43 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

Doesn't Illinois play their JV games prior to Varsity games on Friday nights??  

No in Southeast Illinois. Don't know about the rest of the state.

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On 9/14/2019 at 6:33 PM, slice60 said:

I expect more games to be scheduled for Saturdays in the future.

I wouldn't mind that at all, especially if at night.

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On 9/16/2019 at 9:48 AM, Coach Nowlin said:

Doesn't Illinois play their JV games prior to Varsity games on Friday nights??  

I live in the far SW Chicago burbs (Joliet area).  Prior to this year, most schools in this area, to my knowledge played two games Friday night, Sophomore game followed by Varsity. 

However, in this area, this year they switched from Varsity, Sophomore, Freshman model to Varsity, JV, and Freshman.  The change no or means Freshmen play Friday night before the Varsity, with JV playing Mondays.  I thought the change was made across the state, but I can't confirm that.  

I am not sure if the same crew does both games, but I suspect they do. 

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IMO moving high school games to Saturdays won't help. With weather delays causing games to be postponed to Saturday mornings, it's already very difficult to find crews to work Saturdays as it is, because many of them are already working small college games in Indiana, youth league, freshman games, etc.  Or they just want an actual 2-day weekend to get the house power-washed.

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5 minutes ago, gopher2 said:

IMO moving high school games to Saturdays won't help. With weather delays causing games to be postponed to Saturday mornings, it's already very difficult to find crews to work Saturdays as it is, because many of them are already working small college games in Indiana, youth league, freshman games, etc.  Or they just want an actual 2-day weekend to get the house power-washed.

Isn't that what rain is for?  🤣

I jest.  I am just waiting for the jackwagon builder to finish the 2 1600 sq foot homes by my house (been sitting there for months) to finish so I can power wash my house.

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17 minutes ago, gopher2 said:

IMO moving high school games to Saturdays won't help. With weather delays causing games to be postponed to Saturday mornings, it's already very difficult to find crews to work Saturdays as it is, because many of them are already working small college games in Indiana, youth league, freshman games, etc.  Or they just want an actual 2-day weekend to get the house power-washed.

It would definitely help with coverage because there are enough crews who could do both Friday and Saturday. But it wouldn't be an ideal situation, and I definitely prefer HS games on Friday night. There are only about 35 Indiana small college officials (D3/NAIA) and several of those don't work full time on a HS crew so that impact is small. The bigger issue is youth and freshman/JV games as well as other personal conflicts. We mainly just need more people interested in doing this! It really is a great avocation and while the abuse/violence issues are a concern, it doesn't happen every game. It's more prevalent at the youth/sub-varsity level where most people are starting, but on Friday nights it's pretty rare. And if it does happen we honestly don't hear it much unless it's someone greeting us as we walk off the field.

The biggest untapped market for potential officials...women! I think there are 4-5 licensed female officials in the state of Indiana. There is nothing about officiating that would preclude a woman from doing it as well as a man. There are many male officials who never played HS football. If you have a passion for the game and want to be involved, please consider it no matter your age or gender. Ideally we want younger adults, but someone in their 50s could still work 10-15 years and have a great experience.

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14 minutes ago, JustRules said:

It would definitely help with coverage because there are enough crews who could do both Friday and Saturday. But it wouldn't be an ideal situation, and I definitely prefer HS games on Friday night. There are only about 35 Indiana small college officials (D3/NAIA) and several of those don't work full time on a HS crew so that impact is small. The bigger issue is youth and freshman/JV games as well as other personal conflicts. We mainly just need more people interested in doing this! It really is a great avocation and while the abuse/violence issues are a concern, it doesn't happen every game. It's more prevalent at the youth/sub-varsity level where most people are starting, but on Friday nights it's pretty rare. And if it does happen we honestly don't hear it much unless it's someone greeting us as we walk off the field.

The biggest untapped market for potential officials...women! I think there are 4-5 licensed female officials in the state of Indiana. There is nothing about officiating that would preclude a woman from doing it as well as a man. There are many male officials who never played HS football. If you have a passion for the game and want to be involved, please consider it no matter your age or gender. Ideally we want younger adults, but someone in their 50s could still work 10-15 years and have a great experience.

It would be a paradigm shift in thinking if varsity games have to be played on Thursday's and Saturday's, along with Fridays, but one I think can be done.

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I do the odd Friday/Saturday V weekends. I'm not a fan, I have one coming up in a couple of weeks. 

One of the things I LOVE about playing V on Fridays and JV/Frosh games on Saturdays and the odd 7th/8th on Tuesdays, is I have a normal life thru the week. Versus back in the day when you had V on Friday, youth on Saturday/Sunday JV on Monday, 7/8 on Tuesday/Wednesday and frosh on Thursday. I feel like I'm more rested and my patience isn't nearly as short as the year wears on. Granted I take a pass on a lot of games today that years ago I worked. 

I'm not sure I'd be in on working V games on Thursday at all. And I know I wouldn't be working every Saturday either, I'm not sure I can afford it!

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How much does Shortridge pay per game and how much does Ben Davis(for example) pay per game.  In Northern Indiana I have seen officials take a contract to do a game for a school and when they are offered a contract at another school for more money they cancel the contract with the lower paying school leaving the lower paying school scrambling for officials.  

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8 minutes ago, johnny U said:

How much does Shortridge pay per game and how much does Ben Davis(for example) pay per game.  In Northern Indiana I have seen officials take a contract to do a game for a school and when they are offered a contract at another school for more money they cancel the contract with the lower paying school leaving the lower paying school scrambling for officials.  

Pay disparity is a real thing in Indiana with respects to varsity football officiating. I've seen as high as $110 and as low as $65 (this year, in 2019). 

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31 minutes ago, johnny U said:

How much does Shortridge pay per game and how much does Ben Davis(for example) pay per game.  In Northern Indiana I have seen officials take a contract to do a game for a school and when they are offered a contract at another school for more money they cancel the contract with the lower paying school leaving the lower paying school scrambling for officials.  

If, in fact, you have knowledge of this happening, I urge you to report it to the IHSAA. Rfaulkens@IHSAA.org. They are very interested in this kind of unethical behavior, and if it actually happened there are significant sanctions to be imposed. Officials who would do this give us a bad name. It should not be tolerated.

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7 minutes ago, Bobref said:

If, in fact, you have knowledge of this happening, I urge you to report it to the IHSAA. Rfaulkens@IHSAA.org. They are very interested in this kind of unethical behavior, and if it actually happened there are significant sanctions to be imposed. Officials who would do this give us a bad name. It should not be tolerated.

Why are all games (by level) not paid the same throughout the entire state?

Anyone, not just Bobref....

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6 minutes ago, DannEllenwood said:

Why are all games (by level) not paid the same throughout the entire state?

Anyone, not just Bobref....

Because for regular season games we are hired directly by the home school and not through a centralized state assigning service or something through our associations. I suppose the IHSAA could set an agreed upon fee schedule but I'm not sure how easy that would be to enforce if the state isn't involved with the scheduling or assigning of officials. The tournament fees are set but the IHSAA does that assigning and reimburses the schools for the expense. I know there are some as low as $65 and has high as $100, but for the past couple years we have always been paid $75-$85 for a varsity game. The others I believe are outliers.

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8 minutes ago, JustRules said:

Because for regular season games we are hired directly by the home school and not through a centralized state assigning service or something through our associations. I suppose the IHSAA could set an agreed upon fee schedule but I'm not sure how easy that would be to enforce if the state isn't involved with the scheduling or assigning of officials. The tournament fees are set but the IHSAA does that assigning and reimburses the schools for the expense. I know there are some as low as $65 and has high as $100, but for the past couple years we have always been paid $75-$85 for a varsity game. The others I believe are outliers.

Thank you.

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Last Friday we traveled about 2:15 for 70 bucks. This week we're driving about 20 minutes for $90.00 Last year I had a check for $72.00 and one for $78.50 Just curious how the come up with such odd amounts. 

1 hour ago, johnny U said:

How much does Shortridge pay per game and how much does Ben Davis(for example) pay per game.  In Northern Indiana I have seen officials take a contract to do a game for a school and when they are offered a contract at another school for more money they cancel the contract with the lower paying school leaving the lower paying school scrambling for officials.  

My experience has been that typically schools in metro areas pay less than more rural schools. 

Some conferences have set fees for officials. 

We have always accepted the first contract we received, regardless of game or paycheck. I'm not going to say what you're saying doesn't happen, but as an official, if you don't have your integrity, what do you have?

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Just now, Impartial_Observer said:

Last Friday we traveled about 2:15 for 70 bucks. This week we're driving about 20 minutes for $90.00 Last year I had a check for $72.00 and one for $78.50 Just curious how the come up with such odd amounts. 

My experience has been that typically schools in metro areas pay less than more rural schools. 

Some conferences have set fees for officials. 

We have always accepted the first contract we received, regardless of game or paycheck. I'm not going to say what you're saying doesn't happen, but as an official, if you don't have your integrity, what do you have?

We have done swaps before when a school specifically requested us for a game they considered a big game and wanted a crew they knew they could trust. Especially if the location of the game was more convenient we would consider it. But we always found a replacement crew and offered it to the original school. If they weren't interested in the swap for whatever reason we would honor the original contract. Nobody has rejected that. One instance was when we ended up with the same team in back to back weeks due to an opponent change in one of the contracted games. We don't like to do that, but didn't actively seek a replacement. One came up though and we were able to find a replacement crew for the original game.

I have heard of two instances where a crew double booked and didn't notify the original home school until the week of the game and left them hanging without a crew. In one instance the IHSAA found about it and suspended the license of the referee for life and the rest of the crew from the post season that year. In the other instance I'm not aware anyone reported them to the IHSAA. I don't have any respect for what those crews did.

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8 minutes ago, johnny U said:

Banned for life!  That harsh, especially when there is a shortage of officials.  I will slow up contacting the ISHAA.

That's known as "enabling."

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37 minutes ago, johnny U said:

Banned for life!  That harsh, especially when there is a shortage of officials.  I will slow up contacting the ISHAA.

You lie to an AD telling him your crew is unavailable and leave him hanging to try to find a crew at the last minute and then go work another game. How can you have any credibility on the field after that? Some things need very harsh punishments and that is one of them. There were so many other ways the crew could have handled it. I believe the double booking was an accident and he knew about it several months in advance. Even if he forgot about it, find another crew, contact one of the schools and be honest about the mistake, anything other than lying about it. That will only get you in trouble.

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