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Shelbyville on the brink of Contraction?

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1 hour ago, DT said:

Contraction is a decision that is based on the future, not the past.

The negative trends that are impacting the game will become MORE negative as time goes by.  Failing programs will become more difficult to resuscitate due to dwindling resources   Alexandria was able to rebuild while football was still on a growth trajectory.  The game has peaked and is now in downsizing mode.  Shelby will have a very difficult time rebuilding in the current climate.  It then becomes a local administrative decision relative to allocation of resources.  What activities serve the greater good?  Every community is different.  

 

Can you confirm this? I apologize for putting words in your mouth, but it's hard for me to believe if this conversation/topic wasn't occurring exactly 10 years ago during the 2009 season when Alexandria was sitting around a 20+ game losing streak that you wouldn't have been talking about the tigers being on the brink of contraction. I'm not saying that wouldn't have been warranted either, but my point is things did not look so great just 10 years ago for Alexandria and they've turned it around. I would argue they were in a MUCH worse place then than Shelbyville is now (the Golden Bears had a record of 23-8 from '15-'17). This seems a lot more like a small blip than a code red contraction meltdown.

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10 minutes ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

Can you confirm this? 

High School Football Participation Is On A Decade-Long Decline: https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobcook/2019/08/29/high-school-football-participation-is-on-a-decade-long-decline/#3404ecef33de

Quote

You can blame it on concussions, the demise of the three-sport athlete, social-climbing parents, video games, cell phones, the need for instant gratification, kids' lack of desire to work, Andrew Luck's retirement, whatever you want. At this point, the only reason for that kind of exercise is to think seriously about why high school football participation is in a decade-long demise that shows no sign of ending, and think seriously about what to do about it.

According to the National Federation of High School Association's (NFHS) latest participation survey, released in late August, 11-player tackle football, numerically speaking, is solely responsible for the first decline in boys' high school sports participation since 1988-89, and mostly responsible for the first decline in overall high school participation since that same school year. (The NFHS gathers the numbers from its member associations in each state, which consist, in most cases, the overwhelming majority of high schools.)

In 2018-19, year-over-year 11-player football participation by boys fell by 30,829, or 3%, from 1,036,842 to 1,006,013. (There are more than 2,000 girls who play 11-player tackle football, but I'm focusing on boys because their numbers are small, stable and not statistically relevant to this conversation. Also, while the number of participants in 6-, 8- and 9-player football, which small schools often adopt when they don't have enough students for 11-player teams, is going up, it's also still only about 30,000 players nationwide.) Meanwhile, overall boys high school sports participation declined by 30,822, or 0.7%, from 4,565,580 to 4,534,758. Total participation by boys and girls dropped to 7,937,491, down 0.5% year-over-year. (One participant in one sport counts as 1, so a three-sport athlete would count in the overall stats as 3.)

...

So back to boys in 11-player football. I'm not always sure the sport's backers appreciate how much the numbers are starting to work against them. At a lot of schools, maybe you're not seeing quite the numbers you used to, but you still have more than enough people -- and talent -- for a team. If you're at a school with a successful program, you might even see them going up. But the NFHS numbers on boys in 11-player tackle football show some trends that football's supporters shouldn't ignore:

  • Participation is at its lowest level since 1999-2000 (1,002,734).
  • At this rate, participation could fall below 1 million next year. 1998-99 (983,625) was the last year that happened.
  • About 22% of boys in high school sports participation in 11-player tackle football. In the 1998-2000 period I reference in the first two items, that participation rate was more than 26% -- meaning where once one in four boys played, now we're moving toward one in five.
  • The average number of boys per school in 11-player football in 2018-19 was 70.6. At the sport's participation peak in 2008-09, that average was 79. (That includes all levels -- varsity, junior varsity and freshman.)
  • In 42 states, the number of players went down year-over-year. In 25 of those states, the number of football schools went down as well. In seven, the number of players declined even though the number of schools in the survey increased.
  • In the eight states, plus the District of Columbia, where participation was the same or increased, four of them (DC, Nevada, Texas, Vermont) had more schools playing as well. (The other states: Alabama, Colorado, Hawaii and Oregon.)
  • Texas is the No. 1 state for participation (of course), but its participation-per-school rate is dropping quickly. In 2016-17 it was 153.3; in 2017-18, 135.3; and in 2018-19, 125.6. Meaning, its growth is coming from more schools offering football, not more boys showing up to play at every school.
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42 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Kind of hard to detect in a 100% written environment.

 

 

K

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1 hour ago, Muda69 said:

There are many other outlets and "lifelines" in rural areas besides football.

 

It is a known fact that those who participate in extracurricular activities are more likely to stay in school, graduate, et al. 

Football provides opportunities for some students that might not be available to them in other areas. A kid who might be an offensive lineman is probably not playing soccer or running cross country. Denying them the opportunity to perform in front of their friends and family, learn teamwork, because of some nebulous "goal" might seem like a good thing, but in reality, it's making things worse. You're not going to improve things by denying people opportunities to participate in an activity where participation is paramount. Football is still THE flagship sport and thus the primary extracurricular activity at just about every school. 

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1 minute ago, crimsonace1 said:

It is a known fact that those who participate in extracurricular activities are more likely to stay in school, graduate, et al. 

Football provides opportunities for some students that might not be available to them in other areas. A kid who might be an offensive lineman is probably not playing soccer or running cross country. Denying them the opportunity to perform in front of their friends and family, learn teamwork, because of some nebulous "goal" might seem like a good thing, but in reality, it's making things worse. You're not going to improve things by denying people opportunities to participate in an activity where participation is paramount. Football is still THE flagship sport and thus the primary extracurricular activity at just about every school. 

Again, why do these activities have to be official government school sponsored 'extracurriculars'?

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Again, why do these activities have to be official government school sponsored 'extracurriculars'?

 

 

I don’t think the Student Council teaches jet sweeps or safety blitzes, etc.

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3 minutes ago, Gipper said:

I don’t think the Student Council teaches jet sweeps or safety blitzes, etc.

Hmm. And you accuse me of missing the point..................

 

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As far as Shelbyville goes, the middle school situation has improved, as both 7th and 8th grades had teams this year.  And from what I've heard, the youth system is up and running again.  There will be an HHC all star tournament, and I have been told they will field teams in all grades.  So it does seem the football situation there is on the upswing.

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2 hours ago, Muda69 said:

Again, why do these activities have to be official government school sponsored 'extracurriculars'?

 

 

You'd have to go back and figure out why.  A lot of things are not as the forefathers have written up.  As usual, I still fail to find a well regulated militia, but that's for another place. 

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4 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said:

@Coach Nowlin I'd say this thread has run it's course. 

Indeed.  Take it out back and shoot it...

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We all have our own viewpoints as to the way things should be.  But enough of this crap...

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Why yes,  viewpoints which conflict with those of the masses must be locked and hidden away.  They represent danger to the status quo.

 

 

Edited by Muda69
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Need I say more?  Attention brainiacs, this is high school football...

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10 hours ago, Muda69 said:

I wasn't talking necessarily about extracurricular athletics.

 

Whether you were talking about it or not...the lure of athletics as an extracurricular activity still holds a higher value than other extra curricular activities for teenagers.  Community being involved, recognition for participating in, friends playing, etc...is likely higher in athletic extra curricular activities than non-athletic extra curricular activities....I am assuming this holds even more weight in rural communities.  Right or wrong...that is simply how it is.  

You bring up Frankfort quite a bit...is the pull to not play football currently outweighing the pull to play it?  Basketball? Baseball?  If the district is currently trending to not play football, then that is up to Frankfort to adjust...but other districts still choose to play it and are currently increasing participation and that is their choice.  

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Other factor to bring up in regards to this that weigh heavily into contraction of a football program versus continuing a programs existence is how do we evaluate where a program where be 2, 5, 10 years from now??  And that has no easy answer....Alexandria has been brought up in this topic, Frankfort (which MUDA has been down on) I believe has their numbers up....and are a couple of examples that contracting might be have been a worthwhile opinion at one point...but currently is contraction in the best interest of the kids on the roster??  I cannot answer it...It is up to those individual schools....how do they value football participation?  Does it outweigh participation in an activity not deemed relevant by the community?  Enough said...live with the choices those districts make or take it up with them.

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So if an Indiana high school football program at say the 4A enrollment classification consistency has numbers in the 40-65 range for grades 9-12,  consistently posts 2-8, 1-9, 0-10 season records, and consistently has point differentials of around 300 points allowed vs. 50 points scored  then that is a "successful high school football program".  Got it.

 

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8 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

So if an Indiana high school football program at say the 4A enrollment classification consistency has numbers in the 40-65 range for grades 9-12,  consistently posts 2-8, 1-9, 0-10 season records, and consistently has point differentials of around 300 points allowed vs. 50 points scored  then that is a "successful high school football program".  Got it.

 

Two years ago they were 7-3 and the year before that 7-3. Shelbyville has been a good competitive team over the years. This has became an issue the last two years. The reason behind the recent drop can maybe be answered by a Shelbyville person

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16 hours ago, Muda69 said:

Why yes,  viewpoints which conflict with those of the masses must be locked and hidden away.  They represent danger to the status quo.

 

 

No, when it wanders into the weeds of 2A, it's time to move one.

17 hours ago, Robert said:

You'd have to go back and figure out why.  A lot of things are not as the forefathers have written up.  As usual, I still fail to find a well regulated militia, but that's for another place. 

Pretty much all of these threads go down the same path:

1.DT wants less football playing schools. Gee this is a high school football forum, I wonder how that will be perceived?

2. Muda doesn't want government schools. Gee this a high school football forum, I wonder that will be perceived? 

3. Virtually everyone else wondering why you two post on a high school football forum. 

This thread has run it's course. It's game day, lets move on. Everyone needs to make sure they're drinking plenty of water today, it's going to be a hot one tonight. 

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4 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said:

No, when it wanders into the weeds of 2A, it's time to move one.

Pretty much all of these threads go down the same path:

1.DT wants less football playing schools. Gee this is a high school football forum, I wonder how that will be perceived?

2. Muda doesn't want government schools. Gee this a high school football forum, I wonder that will be perceived? 

3. Virtually everyone else wondering why you two post on a high school football forum. 

This thread has run it's course. It's game day, lets move on. Everyone needs to make sure they're drinking plenty of water today, it's going to be a hot one tonight. 

They can post all they want, free speech and all.  I just think they’re being a little too political and/or self-righteous.  In their hearts of hearts, I’m sure they mean well, but most posters on here (myself included)  are here for information related to the game, which I have a unrequited love for, as opposed to some of their musings.  Am I telling them to take there talents elsewhere?   No, but a toning down in rhetoric would be a refreshing change.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said:

No, when it wanders into the weeds of 2A, it's time to move one.

?  Why do you hate 2A sized schools?

9 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said:

1.DT wants less football playing schools. Gee this is a high school football forum, I wonder how that will be perceived?

2. Muda doesn't want government schools. Gee this a high school football forum, I wonder that will be perceived? 

3. Virtually everyone else wondering why you two post on a high school football forum. 

This thread has run it's course. It's game day, lets move on. Everyone needs to make sure they're drinking plenty of water today, it's going to be a hot one tonight. 

1.  Which is preferred, quality or quantity?  Which is better for the sport of Indiana High School football?  Because I'm sorry, in a state where basketball is still king you can't have both.  Indiana is not Ohio, Florida, or Texas.

2. Correct, I don't.   What is wrong with tackle football going the club route and becoming dissociated with the government schools?

3. So this place doesn't become an circle jerk echo chamber, which is what you appear to prefer.

 

 

Just now, Gipper said:

They can post all they want, free speech and all.  I just think they’re being a little too political and/or self-righteous.  In their hearts of hearts, I’m sure they mean well, but most posters on here (myself included)  are here for information related to the game, which I have a unrequited love for, as opposed to some of their musings.  Am I telling them to take there talents elsewhere?   No, but a toning down in rhetoric would be a refreshing change.

 

 

Political?  In this forum of the GID?  Please elaborate.   The same for your "toning down the rhetoric" comment.  You appear to really be saying "shut up and keep your ideas/comments to yourself if it has the chance to upset the status quo."

 

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1 hour ago, Muda69 said:

Because I'm sorry, in a state where basketball is still king you can't have both.  

Basketball still KING......?

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1 hour ago, Muda69 said:

?  Why do you hate 2A sized schools?

1.  Which is preferred, quality or quantity?  Which is better for the sport of Indiana High School football?  Because I'm sorry, in a state where basketball is still king you can't have both.  Indiana is not Ohio, Florida, or Texas.

2. Correct, I don't.   What is wrong with tackle football going the club route and becoming dissociated with the government schools?

3. So this place doesn't become an circle jerk echo chamber, which is what you appear to prefer.

 

 

Political?  In this forum of the GID?  Please elaborate.   The same for your "toning down the rhetoric" comment.  You appear to really be saying "shut up and keep your ideas/comments to yourself if it has the chance to upset the status quo."

 

Right on cue.  No talk of jet sweeps, safety blitzes, even fumblerooskis or any other type of gadget play.  Got a cool nickname?  Let’s hear it!  What did you think of the Packers-Eagles game last night?  I think the refs were next-level bad, but that’s just me.  Any insight for any games tonight?  I like Lowell over Highland, South Newton or Covington, and Zionsville to come out victorious (but forget their opponent).  That's my contribution to this forum, have a good day. 

3 minutes ago, Sailors said:

Basketball still KING......?

It is?  Hadn’t noticed😁

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no need to lock it

however you can not respond...... then it fades into the dungeons of GID 

Don't worry folks we are soon to be the yearly rinse and repeat of the 2019 IHSAA FOOTBALL TOURNAMENT PAIRING SHOW.....   stay tuned, that horse is still got a heartbeat.....

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I stand corrected: Zionsville plays Hamilton Southeastern this evening.  HSE happens to be nicknamed the Royals, which is a pretty swell handle.  Others include the Mount Vernon Marauders and Tri-County Cavaliers which I consider unique.  As for college ball, I’m a little concerned with tomorrow afternoon’s Purdue-Minnesota tilt for the following reasons: A) Sindelar’s status is unknown, B) Minnesota’s running game could harm the Boilers, and C) Purdue’s relative youth remains a concern 

 

 

 

 

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