Whats wrong with Lawrence Central?

[Guest DT]

Sounds like LC is getting hit from every angle.  The Bears won the state title primarily due to the exploits of Tre Roberson.  He was a once in a lifetime talent for LC.

Perhaps Rodenberg didn't quite do his homework.  LC might have more strong schools picking over their talent than any other school in the state.

Is there any possibility that the current WC staff might be doing some subtle cross township recruiting?  Just sayin'   😁

 

[Footballking16]

5 minutes ago, DT said:

Sounds like LC is getting hit from every angle.  The Bears won the state title primarily due to the exploits of Tre Roberson.  He was a once in a lifetime talent for LC.

Perhaps Rodenberg didn't quite do his homework.  LC might have more strong schools picking over their talent than any other school in the state.

Is there any possibility that the current WC staff might be doing some subtle cross township recruiting?  Just sayin'   😁

 

That and I just think Lawrence Township is capped with 2 schools. Geist isn't growing or getting bigger and families are moving into Hamilton and Hancock County. Better school districts.

[JustRules]

The district is divided so theoretically they are equal socio-economically and ethnically. There are Geist neighborhoods that go to LC and some that go to LN. Both schools have plenty of students from that area. Both schools also draw students the poorer areas of the district. It's not a solid north/south or east/west line. Families do have some level of school choice and will choose one school over the other. LC has a phenomenal performing arts program so some families chose them for that reason. Students in the Spanish Immersion program attend LN regardless of where they live.

LN tends to do better in other sports. I remember hearing a couple years ago they won sectional in 9 of the 16 sports where they participate. I would say that's a pretty good ratio. I'm also sure they are losing students to HSE/MV and private schools but overall the district is growing. They have an outstanding superintendent and administrative staff in both schools. They have strong academic programs and the McKenzie Career Center is the envy of most other districts in the state. It has everything from auto body to culinary arts to engineering to bio-medical and one of the top robotics teams in the country.

The MIC is very competitive. The teams at the bottom of the MIC are still very good and deserving of their top 20 Sagarin ratings. Just because LC didn't look very good against WC doesn't mean they aren't a very good team. If they played in almost any other conference except the MIC or HCC they would likely compete for the conference championships. 3 of LC's losses were by a combined 10 points. All of LN's losses have been within 2 scores. They aren't that far off.

[Guest DT]

4 minutes ago, JustRules said:

The district is divided so theoretically they are equal socio-economically and ethnically. There are Geist neighborhoods that go to LC and some that go to LN. Both schools have plenty of students from that area. Both schools also draw students the poorer areas of the district. It's not a solid north/south or east/west line. Families do have some level of school choice and will choose one school over the other. LC has a phenomenal performing arts program so some families chose them for that reason. Students in the Spanish Immersion program attend LN regardless of where they live.

LN tends to do better in other sports. I remember hearing a couple years ago they won sectional in 9 of the 16 sports where they participate. I would say that's a pretty good ratio. I'm also sure they are losing students to HSE/MV and private schools but overall the district is growing. They have an outstanding superintendent and administrative staff in both schools. They have strong academic programs and the McKenzie Career Center is the envy of most other districts in the state. It has everything from auto body to culinary arts to engineering to bio-medical and one of the top robotics teams in the country.

The MIC is very competitive. The teams at the bottom of the MIC are still very good and deserving of their top 20 Sagarin ratings. Just because LC didn't look very good against WC doesn't mean they aren't a very good team. If they played in almost any other conference except the MIC or HCC they would likely compete for the conference championships. 3 of LC's losses were by a combined 10 points. All of LN's losses have been within 2 scores. They aren't that far off.

LC failed the eyetest Friday night against CG.  That looked more like a coaching - leadership - discipline issue than anything else.  

[JustRules]

3 minutes ago, DT said:

LC failed the eyetest Friday night against CG.  That looked more like a coaching - leadership - discipline issue than anything else.  

When you have 15-17 year olds you never know how they will behave/react. I've worked LC games and never had any issues with the coaching, leadership or discipline. That includes the current coaching staff and team. I'm not saying you are wrong with what you saw Friday night because I didn't see it, but it's easy to be critical from afar. I believe they may have lost their starting quarterback so their backup may not have been as good. And Center Grove can make a lot of teams look bad. But they are also 2-4 because the MIC is very good!

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, JustRules said:

The district is divided so theoretically they are equal socio-economically and ethnically. There are Geist neighborhoods that go to LC and some that go to LN. Both schools have plenty of students from that area. Both schools also draw students the poorer areas of the district. It's not a solid north/south or east/west line. Families do have some level of school choice and will choose one school over the other. LC has a phenomenal performing arts program so some families chose them for that reason. Students in the Spanish Immersion program attend LN regardless of where they live.

LN tends to do better in other sports. I remember hearing a couple years ago they won sectional in 9 of the 16 sports where they participate. I would say that's a pretty good ratio. I'm also sure they are losing students to HSE/MV and private schools but overall the district is growing. They have an outstanding superintendent and administrative staff in both schools. They have strong academic programs and the McKenzie Career Center is the envy of most other districts in the state. It has everything from auto body to culinary arts to engineering to bio-medical and one of the top robotics teams in the country.

The MIC is very competitive. The teams at the bottom of the MIC are still very good and deserving of their top 20 Sagarin ratings. Just because LC didn't look very good against WC doesn't mean they aren't a very good team. If they played in almost any other conference except the MIC or HCC they would likely compete for the conference championships. 3 of LC's losses were by a combined 10 points. All of LN's losses have been within 2 scores. They aren't that far off.

With the growing suburbs, LN travels east and avoids most Marion County schools in the sectional round of many sports, so I would hope they'd win sectionals in 9 of the 16 sports...

Great post though.  Thanks for the insight.  I was unaware of the Lawrence Township boundaries.

[Footballking16]

6 minutes ago, Temptation said:

With the growing suburbs, LN travels east and avoids most Marion County schools in the sectional round of many sports, so I would hope they'd win sectionals in 9 of the 16 sports...

Great post though.  Thanks for the insight.  I was unaware of the Lawrence Township boundaries.

Lawrence Township is now open enrollment I believe. There used to be 3 middle schools Belzer (LC), Fall Creek Valley (LN), and Craig (split LC/LN depending on address). Craig closed awhile back. General rule of thumb is that most kids that go to Belzer go to LC and Fall Creek Valley go to LN. There's a section of Geist, southwest part of the reservoir out to 600 between 86th and 96th street that feed into the Belzer. That area is the most affluent part of Lawrence Township and the area LC/Lawrence Township lose most of their kids. 

[JustRules]

14 minutes ago, Temptation said:

With the growing suburbs, LN travels east and avoids most Marion County schools in the sectional round of many sports, so I would hope they'd win sectionals in 9 of the 16 sports...

Great post though.  Thanks for the insight.  I was unaware of the Lawrence Township boundaries.

I wasn't sure who they competed with in most sectionals so I looked up the boys sectionals from last year. It's almost always other Marion County schools. It was a heavy dose of Tech, North Central, Cathedral, Chatard, and Warren Central. Brebeuf, Heritage Christian, Scecina showed up a couple times. The only non-Marion County schools I found were New Pal (Baseball), Shelbyville (Swimming) and Mount Vernon (Track and Wrestling). Track was the one real oddball. It was the only sport where LN and LC were split. LN was with a bunch of small schools in Hancock, Madison, and east. LC was with most of the same other Marion County schools. I didn't look at the girls sports, but I assume they are similar.

[Footballking16]

2 minutes ago, JustRules said:

I wasn't sure who they competed with in most sectionals so I looked up the boys sectionals from last year. It's almost always other Marion County schools. It was a heavy dose of Tech, North Central, Cathedral, Chatard, and Warren Central. Brebeuf, Heritage Christian, Scecina showed up a couple times. The only non-Marion County schools I found were New Pal (Baseball), Shelbyville (Swimming) and Mount Vernon (Track and Wrestling). Track was the one real oddball. It was the only sport where LN and LC were split. LN was with a bunch of small schools in Hancock, Madison, and east. LC was with most of the same other Marion County schools. I didn't look at the girls sports, but I assume they are similar.

Not lost in all this, but LC should be a heavy favorite to win the 4A basketball title this year.

[JustRules]

13 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Lawrence Township is now open enrollment I believe. There used to be 3 middle schools Belzer (LC), Fall Creek Valley (LN), and Craig (split LC/LN depending on address). Craig closed awhile back. General rule of thumb is that most kids that go to Belzer go to LC and Fall Creek Valley go to LN. There's a section of Geist, southwest part of the reservoir out to 600 between 86th and 96th street that feed into the Belzer. That area is the most affluent part of Lawrence Township and the area LC/Lawrence Township lose most of their kids. 

Open enrollment to an extent. You are assigned to an elementary, middle and high school depending on neighborhood. There is some ability to choose schools, but I believe there is a process to it if you want to go where you aren't assigned.  You can't have 1200 students at one elementary school and 200 at another. If you don't attend the school where you are assigned you are responsible for transportation. They do offer a shuttle between the high schools so students who live in an LC neighborhood but attend LN can take the bus to LC and then shuttle to LN. The issue is they miss the first 20 minutes of the first period and last 15 minutes of the last period. I've heard most kids try to carpool with others in their neighborhood. I think the middle schools have a similar shuttle.

[Footballking16]

3 minutes ago, JustRules said:

Open enrollment to an extent. You are assigned to an elementary, middle and high school depending on neighborhood. There is some ability to choose schools, but I believe there is a process to it if you want to go where you aren't assigned.  You can't have 1200 students at one elementary school and 200 at another. If you don't attend the school where you are assigned you are responsible for transportation. They do offer a shuttle between the high schools so students who live in an LC neighborhood but attend LN can take the bus to LC and then shuttle to LN. The issue is they miss the first 20 minutes of the first period and last 15 minutes of the last period. I've heard most kids try to carpool with others in their neighborhood. I think the middle schools have a similar shuttle.

I was more so just eluding to the high schools.

[gaby]

14 hours ago, CaptainHook said:

If combined, as most of the MIC school are, LC and LN would have enrollment of 4886, which would place them second in 6A.   As is, LN has an enrollement of 2596, and LC has an enrollment of 2290, which is #16 and #23 in 6A respectively.  Carmel is #1.  Ben Davis is #2.  Warren is #3. North Central is #5. Pike is #8. Center Grove is #17.  LN is #16. LC is #23!

Seeing this made me wonder what HSE would look like had they not carved out Fishers HS.  Looks like both have around 3,200 kids, so 6,400 combined!  Makes Carmel look small, LOL.  I'm sure the HCC is grateful for the division!

[JustRules]

19 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

I was more so just eluding to the high schools.

Even then it's not automatic choice. You are pre-assigned to one of the schools and have to go through some process to attend the other one unless you in the immersion program. You are already mapped to LN. But you still don't have a direct bus route to LN. You either have to arrange your own ride or take the shuttle to and from LC.

[Boilernation]

10 minutes ago, gaby said:

Seeing this made me wonder what HSE would look like had they not carved out Fishers HS.  Looks like both have around 3,200 kids, so 6,400 combined!  Makes Carmel look small, LOL.  I'm sure the HCC is grateful for the division!

And they have plenty of room for growth. Their district is enormous. All of the farmland east of Summer Road in Noblesville out to the Madison County Line is HSE schools. Noblesville has a lot of newly developed neighborhoods on the east side that feed into HSE.

[Footballking16]

1 minute ago, JustRules said:

Even then it's not automatic choice. You are pre-assigned to one of the schools and have to go through some process to attend the other one unless you in the immersion program. You are already mapped to LN. But you still don't have a direct bus route to LN. You either have to arrange your own ride or take the shuttle to and from LC.

Sure. That’s how open enrollment works just about everywhere. But LC is hurt/impacted in a worse way than LN. The faction of Geist (the most affluent part of Lawrence Township) is seeing its kids go to private schools or HSE/Mt. Vernon.

[Footballking16]

24 minutes ago, gaby said:

Seeing this made me wonder what HSE would look like had they not carved out Fishers HS.  Looks like both have around 3,200 kids, so 6,400 combined!  Makes Carmel look small, LOL.  I'm sure the HCC is grateful for the division!

Give it 10-15 years, I wouldn't be shocked to see Lawrence Central consolidate back to one school. With a stagnant population growth and trends of more and more families moving east into Hancock County (Mt. Vernon and New Pal), it wouldn't surprise me to see this happen. Property value and re-sale value of homes in Lawrence Township compared to those of sections of Hancock County suggest this.

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Give it 10-15 years, I wouldn't be shocked to see Lawrence Central consolidate back to one school. With a stagnant population growth and trends of more and more families moving east into Hancock County (Mt. Vernon and New Pal), it wouldn't surprise me to see this happen. Property value and re-sale value of homes in Lawrence Township compared to those of sections of Hancock County suggest this.

Would that qualify as contraction?  Asking for a friend...

[gonzoron]

57 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

I was more so just eluding to the high schools.

This is also happening with Girl's sports there. We have a friend who transferred to North Central and started on their GBB team.

[Guest DT]

1 minute ago, Temptation said:

Would that qualify as contraction?  Asking for a friend...

Yes.  Anything that contributes to the move to the magic number of 280 is considered contraction.

 

[Lysander]

51 minutes ago, gaby said:

Seeing this made me wonder what HSE would look like had they not carved out Fishers HS.  Looks like both have around 3,200 kids, so 6,400 combined!  Makes Carmel look small, LOL.  I'm sure the HCC is grateful for the division!

2-3 years ago I had lunch with the director of a not-for-profit whose organization was responsible for promoting development among the various municipalities in Hamilton County.  I was surprised when he told me that if you combined those various municipalities (Fishers, Noblesville, Carmel, etc., etc.), the population measured only 4-5,000 less than the Ft. Wayne area.

It was a bit jaw-dropping to me at the time to learn of this.

[Footballking16]

10 minutes ago, Lysander said:

2-3 years ago I had lunch with the director of a not-for-profit whose organization was responsible for promoting development among the various municipalities in Hamilton County.  I was surprised when he told me that if you combined those various municipalities (Fishers, Noblesville, Carmel, etc., etc.), the population measured only 4-5,000 less than the Ft. Wayne area.

It was a bit jaw-dropping to me at the time to learn of this.

Wait till Westfield is fully developed

[BDGiant93]

1 hour ago, gonzoron said:

This is also happening with Girl's sports there. We have a friend who transferred to North Central and started on their GBB team.

LN was state runner-up last year.

[gonzoron]

4 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

LN was state runner-up last year.

She would have gone to LC. Went to MS at Belzer

[JustRules]

1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

Give it 10-15 years, I wouldn't be shocked to see Lawrence Central consolidate back to one school. With a stagnant population growth and trends of more and more families moving east into Hancock County (Mt. Vernon and New Pal), it wouldn't surprise me to see this happen. Property value and re-sale value of homes in Lawrence Township compared to those of sections of Hancock County suggest this.

As a district Lawrence Township grew more than any district in Marian County last year. I don't know where they are coming from because there isn't a ton of new development in the district, but the superintendent alluded to the fact that students are transferring back from private schools and moving in from other districts. It's one of the most diverse districts in the state in many measures with tons of success stories.

I found this demographic information. From 2013-14 to 2018-19 the district grew from 14,871 to 16,035, an 8% growth.

https://www.ltschools.org/about/district-profile/demographics

[hhpatriot04]

Why and when did Lawrence Township split into two school systems? For the record, I was born in Indianapolis and would've gone to Carmel. However, at a young age my family moved to Santa Claus, which is comprised of two townships (Clay and Carter). The entirety of Spencer County with a population of just over 20,000 has two high schools and school systems, South Spencer (HS by the same name) and North Spencer (Heritage Hills HS). 

I bring this up because school districts in Indiana are based on townships, not counties. In the case of Marion, we have many exceptions, but little coordination on definining boundaries. Unfortunately political gerramdering comes into play, but the IHSAA has the ability to limit a program size... Let's say they put the 6A maximum at 2,500 enrollment. What're the ups and downs? 

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