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Center Grove and Carmel Losing gate revenue by staying in The MIC


Guest DT

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Just now, Footballking16 said:

Then I’ll gladly send you your very own “Proud winner of a gentleman’s bet” ribbon so you can wear with pride.

Awesome!

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28 minutes ago, Temptation said:

Both actually.  Thanks for asking.

So back to those numbers you were speaking of (as I just learned how to count)...

I get 15/16 odds in 6A north?  (93.8 percent)

I get 9/16 odds in 6A south?  (56.3 percent)

Carmel HAS to win 6A north or your whole bet is shot and even if they do, I get NINE of the 16 teams remaining in the south?

Man, I wish we'd actually put money on this one.  I bet @Coach Nowlinhas an idea...

@Coach Nowlin will let you guys bet a donation to the GID.. I did it in the past, and Coach OK’d it.. thanks to @rebeldad for that 1 year of Donor status 🙂 

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8 minutes ago, PHJIrish said:

It'll be interesting to see how CG travels to play Cathedral, at Tech, in the regular season finale.  It is a tough drive from and to Center Grove on any Friday night.

This isn’t Chicago, LA, Atlanta, etc. I could get to CG from Noblesville within an hour on a Friday night. That’s a piece of cake for such a long distance.

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6 hours ago, DT said:

0AA5239E-A74B-4ECD-9096-05896A305566.jpeg

 

The above photo shows the visitors side bleachers during the Pike at Center Grove game this past week.

Pretty pathetic

Center Grove has the most beautiful football facility in the state with a raucous atmosphere and the best hospitality you can ever find.  CG and Carmel both travel very well to opposing MIC schools.  Why wont the MIC schools return the favor?

This was a heck of a ballgame.  Pike is rapidly improving, and CG held on for a 24-21 win.  Why wont the Pike parents come out and support their kids?  

This has been going on for years.  Both CG and Carmel have lost hundreds of thousands of dollars in gate revenue due to poor MIC visiting crowds.

Both schools, IMO, should bolt the MIC and join the Hoosier Crossroads while there are still two open spots to take in the HCC.  

It's not right that CG pads the coffers of LN, LC, BD, WC and Pike, and those schools do not reciprocate in any way.

Time to bold trojans and Greyhounds.  Westfield, Fishers, HSE, Brownsburg, Avon, Zionsville, Franklin Central and maybe even Noblesville fans will fill the visiting CG bleachers for years to come.  

Take it a step further.  12 team HCC with north and south divisions.  Play the 5 in your division plus a week 9 crossover game for conference placing.  CG and Carmel moving out of the MIC would also make the MIC a 6 team conference.  That leaves 3 weeks open to schedule non-conference games for all 18 teams in the HCC and MIC, which gives them an opportunity to keep some existing rivalries (CG-Warren, Carmel-Warren, Carmel-BD).

HCC North

Carmel, Fishers, HSE, Noblesville, Westfield, Zionsville

HCC South

Avon, Brownsburg, Center Grove, Columbus North, Franklin Central, Southport

Week 9 championship and crossover games could see matchups like Carmel-Avon, CG-Fishers, Westfield-Southport, etc.  I am sure during some years, Carmel-CG would be a championship game.  An already established rivalry played for a conference championship to cap off the regular season.

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1 hour ago, HoopsCoach said:

Take it a step further.  12 team HCC with north and south divisions.  Play the 5 in your division plus a week 9 crossover game for conference placing.  CG and Carmel moving out of the MIC would also make the MIC a 6 team conference.  That leaves 3 weeks open to schedule non-conference games for all 18 teams in the HCC and MIC, which gives them an opportunity to keep some existing rivalries (CG-Warren, Carmel-Warren, Carmel-BD).

HCC North

Carmel, Fishers, HSE, Noblesville, Westfield, Zionsville

HCC South

Avon, Brownsburg, Center Grove, Columbus North, Franklin Central, Southport

Week 9 championship and crossover games could see matchups like Carmel-Avon, CG-Fishers, Westfield-Southport, etc.  I am sure during some years, Carmel-CG would be a championship game.  An already established rivalry played for a conference championship to cap off the regular season.

The MIC would not remain a 6 team conference and CG and Carmel would almost assuredly be replaced instantly with Avon and Brownsburg likely getting the first two calls. 

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1 hour ago, Boilernation said:

This isn’t Chicago, LA, Atlanta, etc. I could get to CG from Noblesville within an hour on a Friday night. That’s a piece of cake for such a long distance.

Exactly.  I-465 is a country road compared to the Bishop Ford, Dan Ryan, Edens, Eisenhower, and Kennedy Expressways not to mention the various toll roads in Chicagoland.

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1 hour ago, HoopsCoach said:

Take it a step further.  12 team HCC with north and south divisions.  Play the 5 in your division plus a week 9 crossover game for conference placing.  CG and Carmel moving out of the MIC would also make the MIC a 6 team conference.  That leaves 3 weeks open to schedule non-conference games for all 18 teams in the HCC and MIC, which gives them an opportunity to keep some existing rivalries (CG-Warren, Carmel-Warren, Carmel-BD).

HCC North

Carmel, Fishers, HSE, Noblesville, Westfield, Zionsville

HCC South

Avon, Brownsburg, Center Grove, Columbus North, Franklin Central, Southport

Week 9 championship and crossover games could see matchups like Carmel-Avon, CG-Fishers, Westfield-Southport, etc.  I am sure during some years, Carmel-CG would be a championship game.  An already established rivalry played for a conference championship to cap off the regular season.

Just thumbing through this delightful thread but came across this 

 

this likely will never happen. I say this because the PAC was looking into this potentially this past summer. 1 great point brought to everyone’s attention by some member here who I can’t remember their name pretty much shut down the entire thing. 
 

say you have your 5 conference games and 3 non conference. So you schedule a non conference with someone on the other end of the HCC.  Week 9 comes and cross over game means you now play them agains...and you also found out during week 8 or so that you play them round 1 of sectionals. You now have the possibility to play a team 3 times in a year. 
 

Cross over games can make an absolute mess of things. Idk how 6A sectionals work out but to make it happen you have a lot of jumping around to do.  Last minute scheduling for the cross over games...a scramble for getting games scheduled.....it’s a mess. 
 

the one thing 6A has going for this is the “bye” week for week 10. That could make a conference championship game viable.  
 

all together it’s probably best to avoid that scenario all together. Just play a conference schedule and roll into the playoffs. If you play a team a second time that year so be it. 

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23 minutes ago, Gipper said:

Exactly.  I-465 is a country road compared to the Bishop Ford, Dan Ryan, Edens, Eisenhower, and Kennedy Expressways not to mention the various toll roads in Chicagoland.

I don’t know if they made improvements over the years, but I used to have to sit through the madness of The Hillside Strangler back in the early 2000’s when I lived in Downers Grove and wanted to take the Eisenhower into the city at night.  That’s where 290, 88, and 294 traffic merges to form the eastbound Eisenhower in Hillside. Now that’s traffic! I once got stuck in standstill traffic at the 94 and Congress interchange in The Loop at 10 PM on a Sunday night. Friday night on 465 is a racetrack minus some congestion on eastbound 465 between Keystone and Allisonville. 

.

Honestly, for us Hamilton County folk, getting out to Avon is probably more time consuming than taking 465 around to the south side for CG, which is pretty easy to get to from 37 or Meridian via East Street/Thompson Road. Avon is about 100 stop lights on Rockville until you get to Dan Jones Road.

 

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16 minutes ago, Boilernation said:

I don’t know if they made improvements over the years, but I used to have to sit through the madness of The Hillside Strangler back in the early 2000’s when I lived in Downers Grove and wanted to take the Eisenhower into the city at night.  That’s where 290, 88, and 294 traffic merges to form the eastbound Eisenhower in Hillside. Now that’s traffic! I once got stuck in standstill traffic at the 94 and Congress interchange in The Loop at 10 PM on a Sunday night. Friday night on 465 is a racetrack minus some congestion on eastbound 465 between Keystone and Allisonville. 

.

Honestly, for us Hamilton County folk, getting out to Avon is probably more time consuming than taking 465 around to the south side for CG, which is pretty easy to get to from 37 or Meridian via East Street/Thompson Road. Avon is about 100 stop lights on Rockville until you get to Dan Jones Road.

 

The Ike sucks and will always suck, I avoid it at all costs.  Congress Parkway is now known as Ida B. Wells and I have no idea why.  It makes no sense as my office is a block east of Wells Street not Ida B. Wells Drive...

 

...oh yeah, it’s still the Sears Tower. 

But traffic has eased a bit.  I can get home from the Loop in a little over an hour in rush hour.

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1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

The MIC would not remain a 6 team conference and CG and Carmel would almost assuredly be replaced instantly with Avon and Brownsburg likely getting the first two calls. 

No way Avon and brownsburg leave the HCC with CG and CA coming on board.  

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1 hour ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

Just thumbing through this delightful thread but came across this 

 

this likely will never happen. I say this because the PAC was looking into this potentially this past summer. 1 great point brought to everyone’s attention by some member here who I can’t remember their name pretty much shut down the entire thing. 
 

say you have your 5 conference games and 3 non conference. So you schedule a non conference with someone on the other end of the HCC.  Week 9 comes and cross over game means you now play them agains...and you also found out during week 8 or so that you play them round 1 of sectionals. You now have the possibility to play a team 3 times in a year. 
 

Cross over games can make an absolute mess of things. Idk how 6A sectionals work out but to make it happen you have a lot of jumping around to do.  Last minute scheduling for the cross over games...a scramble for getting games scheduled.....it’s a mess. 
 

the one thing 6A has going for this is the “bye” week for week 10. That could make a conference championship game viable.  
 

all together it’s probably best to avoid that scenario all together. Just play a conference schedule and roll into the playoffs. If you play a team a second time that year so be it. 

You are correct that my suggestion of a 12 team HCC will absolutely never happen.  It is far too easy to keep things the way they are (the dream of most AD’s) and that is fine.

I think the issues you mentioned could easily be resolved.  1. Don’t schedule non-conference games against teams from the other division.  If you do, don’t schedule teams that are in your sectional or regional.  2. Crossover games do not have to be a mess.  Just have all the teams in the north division host them one year, then all the south division teams host the next year.  AD’s would know before the season starts if they are hosting a week 9 game, so they could schedule officials and workers well in advance.  Just like any other game that rotates between home and away each year.  The only difference is that you wouldn’t know the opponent until all the division games have been played.  Much easier than a sectional game or a game further into the tournament.  3. No need to use week 10.  Leave it as a bye week for the 6A teams.  It would also be impossible to use in the event that a conference member is in 5A and has a tournament game that week.

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1 hour ago, Gipper said:

Merge conferences!!!

Not stopping there: Duneland, NIC, & SAC—Yankee League

North Central, bigger Hoosier, Hoosier Heartland  & CIC schools—Centre Conference (note how I spelled Centre, pretty cool, huh?)

Conference Indiana, Hoosier Hills, and SIAC: Forest People League 

 

Everybody else should be contracted and wiped off the face of the Earth...

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2 minutes ago, BoomBoomMcGee said:

Wow! Conference consolidation coupled with Chicago traffic patterns and sports book style betting......and to think This whole thread started with selling hot dogs! 🌭🌭🌭 😁 

I do enjoy the banter tho! 

I have a lot of time in the train, thereby avoiding Chicago traffic...

5 minutes ago, Gipper said:

Not stopping there: Duneland, NIC, & SAC—Yankee League

North Central, bigger Hoosier, Hoosier Heartland  & CIC schools—Centre Conference (note how I spelled Centre, pretty cool, huh?)

Conference Indiana, Hoosier Hills, and SIAC: Forest People League 

 

Everybody else should be contracted and wiped off the face of the Earth...

Or just put them in the Cursed Earth League...

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8 hours ago, Justasportsfan said:

Carmel should just go independent..i know the forum has spoke of this before. They have the resources to compete and travel in every sport..the talent pool will only get deeper. If they can play top tier teams from not only the mic and hcc..why not?

Because then they’d be leaving “THE GREATEST CONFERENCE in the WORLD.”

Seriously folks, I know this is a football forum and football is the main revenue draw for an athletic department but this issue is much more complicated as there are 19 other sports to think about for an athletic department.

I do agree with the original premise though.  

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1 hour ago, Temptation said:

Because then they’d be leaving “THE GREATEST CONFERENCE in the WORLD.”

Seriously folks, I know this is a football forum and football is the main revenue draw for an athletic department but this issue is much more complicated as there are 19 other sports to think about for an athletic department.

I do agree with the original premise though.  

Carmel should go independent, Penn should go independent, South Newton should be contracted, and the Sectional assignments suck.  What’s next?  Will the players be riding the field on angry llamas?

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10 hours ago, DT said:

No way Avon and brownsburg leave the HCC with CG and CA coming on board.  

Why? Especially given the above-mentioned proposal of a 12 team HCC?

Brownsburg and Avon get screwed playing in a hypothetical HCC South with Southport, Franklin Central, Columbus North, and Center Grove, and not just in football either. Brownsburg and Avon both fit better in the MIC anyway with geographical rivals in Pike and Ben Davis. 

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4 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Why? Especially given the above-mentioned proposal of a 12 team HCC?

Brownsburg and Avon get screwed playing in a hypothetical HCC South with Southport, Franklin Central, Columbus North, and Center Grove, and not just in football either. Brownsburg and Avon both fit better in the MIC anyway with geographical rivals in Pike and Ben Davis. 

You don't get it.

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6 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

I'm not really advocating a conference change...just understand DT's point.  I also know AD's have to think beyond football and bball.  Its an interesting discussion when weighing out pros and cons.  The MIC has a strong reputation (well earned) with football and over the years in hoops and track.  Very heavy in those 3 areas.  Typically not as strong in the other sports....and that is why Carmel and CG is typically #1 and #2 each semester in the all sports category.  I believe (opinion only) that the HCC would offer better competition in all sports....and is that good or bad for a Carmel or CG....probably can debate that one both ways.

Football is the revenue generator for the athletic department.....So I understand DT's point about revenue.  I would like to see the MIC travel better....But he's right....it isn't just Pike that travels poorly.  I also believe the HCC would travel better in all sports.

My bias is with the MIC....and I agree with you...love the flexibility of non-conference games and don't want to lose them.  But I can certainly understand why AD's have to look at revenue and cost when aligning with conferences.

There is no such thing as a perfect world as there will always be arguments for and against basically everything.  Sometimes all we can do is let the cards fall where they may.

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18 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

I'm not really advocating a conference change...just understand DT's point.  I also know AD's have to think beyond football and bball.  Its an interesting discussion when weighing out pros and cons.  The MIC has a strong reputation (well earned) with football and over the years in hoops and track.  Very heavy in those 3 areas.  Typically not as strong in the other sports....and that is why Carmel and CG is typically #1 and #2 each semester in the all sports category.  I believe (opinion only) that the HCC would offer better competition in all sports....and is that good or bad for a Carmel or CG....probably can debate that one both ways.

Football is the revenue generator for the athletic department.....So I understand DT's point about revenue.  I would like to see the MIC travel better....But he's right....it isn't just Pike that travels poorly.  I also believe the HCC would travel better in all sports.

My bias is with the MIC....and I agree with you...love the flexibility of non-conference games and don't want to lose them.  But I can certainly understand why AD's have to look at revenue and cost when aligning with conferences.

Trust me, I get all that opposed to the blowhard above who doesn't think I do. But football and men's basketball are king in Indiana and that's what is attractive about the MIC. It would make little sense in my opinion to take a conference demotion which is exactly that if CG's moves to the HCC. The HCC is nowhere near the MIC's level in football and even further behind in basketball. It's like saying Alabama should leave the SEC for say the PAC 12 because the PAC 12 overall is stronger in all sports across the board. It would be preposterous.

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