Guest Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 1 hour ago, FastpacedO said: Marion had to travel to Evansville Central for the 4A South Semi-State last year. A 3 hr 51 min 9 or 4 hrs 9 min depending on which way was taken to get there.. SEMI-STATE... Not a SECTIONAL contest. We DO know that the term “sectional” means being the best in your AREA of the state, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastpacedO Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 33 minutes ago, Temptation said: SEMI-STATE... Not a SECTIONAL contest. We DO know that the term “sectional” means being the best in your AREA of the state, correct? The seeding given didn't have a Sectional. It looked like a standard playoff bracket to me. Much like D-2, D-3, and NAIA use. What is the difference in long travel in round 1 compared to round 5. Travel is travel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, FastpacedO said: The seeding given didn't have a Sectional. It looked like a standard playoff bracket to me. Much like D-2, D-3, and NAIA use. What is the difference in long travel in round 1 compared to round 5. Travel is travel. Travel in round 1 most likely leads to travel in another round of the tournament. In the 6A bracket proposed, the 16/17 matchup of Carroll/LC means a Carroll upset means travel to LC for round 1 and AVON for round 2. Same bracket: Franklin Central over Lafayette Jeff (not too far fetched) has the Flashes traveling to Fort Wayne the following weekend. Just a couple of examples. As a fan these things are fun to look at and they pop up this time of year EVERY October as the tournament approaches as people start to compare how "unfair" their potential draw may be. I just don't get too caught up in them because they'll never happen. The IHSAA has said this about multiple sports: 1. The goal is to crown the STATE CHAMPION in each sport. The current system does that. The "meat grinder" that is 6A south has still produced the champion the past two seasons and 5 of the 6 years since 6A was established. BD had to go through Warren twice and vice versa last year. If you aren't good enough to beat them in the sectional, what is the difference when playing them weeks later in the semi-state? You want your best teams playing as long as possible, I get that but cry me a river on "fairness." Look at the enrollments of the bottom 6A schools and cry to me about "fair". 2. The IHSAA wants all areas of the state represented. Yes, Hamilton County is a bit of an exception as no one really views Carmel as a "northern powerhouse" but when you have 32 teams, the dividing line has to be somewhere. What are we REALLY arguing here? That a couple of teams should get extra trophies because they face a fellow ranked team too early? The system has worked in terms of crowning the correct state champion as the supposed gauntlet has been survived on every occasion. Now if you want to say that some "undeserving teams" have earned runner up trophies/rings, I'll listen but who really cares? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 Seeding seems to make sense in every sport at every level with the exception of Indiana high school sports. That being said, it's hard to claim that our system is the best. Let's be real here. The reason we do the blind draw is because it's easy.................it requires little thought and hardly any work. Name another sport at another level where the regular season means nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, BTF said: Seeding seems to make sense in every sport at every level with the exception of Indiana high school sports. That being said, it's hard to claim that our system is the best. Let's be real here. The reason we do the blind draw is because it's easy.................it requires little thought and hardly any work. Name another sport at another level where the regular season means nothing. MLB: The Dodgers just won 106 games, clinched home field advantage throughout the playoffs, lost game 5 at home. The Braves got rewarded with home field advantage against the Cards for winning their division (probably the toughest in the NL) and lost game 5 at home. They played a 7 month, 162 game season when anyone with any sort of common sense could have correctly picked 6-7 of the 10 playoff teams. NBA: The NBA finals went 5 games and the battle for "home court" advantage was tight. The Raptors won in 5 and the ROAD team WON 4 of the 5 NBA Finals games. Star players use "load management" and take nights off and rarely play back-to-backs because getting into the playoffs fresh and healthy trumps having home court. (I firmly believe the 73-9 Warriors team that busted their tails to go after the record and then lost in the finals are the reason this is now commonplace.) NFL: The Saints and Chiefs had home field advantage throughout the playoffs last year and BOTH lost their respective conference title games on their home field. In pro sports, its all about revenue and money so nothing will be done. But a relatively "meaningless" regular season is not just a deal in high school sports. Edited October 11, 2019 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhpatriot04 Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 I've always favored seeding the tournament similiar to the way it's done for wrestling. Sectionals - Lock the coaches in a room after Week 8 and seed their sectional Regionals - Use coaches, IHSAA or Sagarin to seed 1v4, 2v3 in each of the four sectionals (Classes A-4A) Semistate (neutral sites) - Use coaches, IHSAA or Sagarin to seed 1v4, 2v3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 (edited) 27 minutes ago, hhpatriot04 said: I've always favored seeding the tournament similiar to the way it's done for wrestling. Sectionals - Lock the coaches in a room after Week 8 and seed their sectional Regionals - Use coaches, IHSAA or Sagarin to seed 1v4, 2v3 in each of the four sectionals (Classes A-4A) Semistate (neutral sites) - Use coaches, IHSAA or Sagarin to seed 1v4, 2v3 Sagarin has had the SAC teams jacked up all fall. Homestead for example, has had a rating as high as 107 and as low as 67 TWO weeks apart. There is no perfect system. Edited October 11, 2019 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MICFan34 Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Temptation said: Sagarin has had the SAC teams jacked up all fall. Homestead for example, has had a rating as high as 107 and as low as 67 TWO weeks apart. There is no perfect system. How come the MaxPreps rankings are never really discussed? Don't they account for out of state opponents? Edited October 11, 2019 by MICFan34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustRules Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Temptation said: MLB: The Dodgers just won 106 games, clinched home field advantage throughout the playoffs, lost game 5 at home. The Braves got rewarded with home field advantage against the Cards for winning their division (probably the toughest in the NL) and lost game 5 at home. They played a 7 month, 162 game season when anyone with any sort of common sense could have correctly picked 6-7 of the 10 playoff teams. NBA: The NBA finals went 5 games and the battle for "home court" advantage was tight. The Raptors won in 5 and the ROAD team WON 4 of the 5 NBA Finals games. Star players use "load management" and take nights off and rarely play back-to-backs because getting into the playoffs fresh and healthy trumps having home court. (I firmly believe the 73-9 Warriors team that busted their tails to go after the record and then lost in the finals are the reason this is now commonplace.) NFL: The Saints and Chiefs had home field advantage throughout the playoffs last year and BOTH lost their respective conference title games on their home field. In pro sports, its all about revenue and money so nothing will be done. But a relatively "meaningless" regular season is not just a deal in high school sports. But the regular season determined who would be in the playoffs in each of those instances. And it gave the Dodgers and Braves the opportunity to have home field advantage. I guarantee that was important to them in late season games. The fact they didn't capitalize on it is a separate discussion. I will agree with the argument MLB and NBA seasons are way too long, but they do play a major factor in who makes the playoffs and seeding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastpacedO Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Temptation said: Travel in round 1 most likely leads to travel in another round of the tournament. In the 6A bracket proposed, the 16/17 matchup of Carroll/LC means a Carroll upset means travel to LC for round 1 and AVON for round 2. Same bracket: Franklin Central over Lafayette Jeff (not too far fetched) has the Flashes traveling to Fort Wayne the following weekend. Just a couple of examples. As a fan these things are fun to look at and they pop up this time of year EVERY October as the tournament approaches as people start to compare how "unfair" their potential draw may be. I just don't get too caught up in them because they'll never happen. How is your example any different than what can happen in 4A Sectional 23? East Central could draw to play at Martinsville first round of sectionals and then play at Greenwood or at Mooresville in second round of Sectionals. My point was the travel was what you mentioned in your first post, that already could be a possibility. I don't see any harm in the original post giving a hypothetical on a seeding. It shows interesting match-ups, really no need to rip into each post on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustRules Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 7 minutes ago, FastpacedO said: How is your example any different than what can happen in 4A Sectional 23? East Central could draw to play at Martinsville first round of sectionals and then play at Greenwood or at Mooresville in second round of Sectionals. My point was the travel was what you mentioned in your first post, that already could be a possibility. I don't see any harm in the original post giving a hypothetical on a seeding. It shows interesting match-ups, really no need to rip into each post on it. Travel overall would be much more significant if they went to north/south or statewide seeding top to bottom compared to the current sectional model. For the most part today's sectionals are geographically close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 30 minutes ago, JustRules said: But the regular season determined who would be in the playoffs in each of those instances. And it gave the Dodgers and Braves the opportunity to have home field advantage. I guarantee that was important to them in late season games. The fact they didn't capitalize on it is a separate discussion. I will agree with the argument MLB and NBA seasons are way too long, but they do play a major factor in who makes the playoffs and seeding. But did the seeding ultimately MATTER? Over half of the teams in the MLB were non-factors and basically eliminated from playoff contention by the ALL-STAR BREAK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 42 minutes ago, Temptation said: But did the seeding ultimately MATTER? Over half of the teams in the MLB were non-factors and basically eliminated from playoff contention by the ALL-STAR BREAK. Baseball is different than football. How often does the team with the best record win the World Series? If seeding didn't make any sense, no one would do it. It makes tons sense, which is why everyone does it. Indiana high school sports is the exception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 1 hour ago, FastpacedO said: How is your example any different than what can happen in 4A Sectional 23? East Central could draw to play at Martinsville first round of sectionals and then play at Greenwood or at Mooresville in second round of Sectionals. My point was the travel was what you mentioned in your first post, that already could be a possibility. I don't see any harm in the original post giving a hypothetical on a seeding. It shows interesting match-ups, really no need to rip into each post on it. That's a forced hand in my opinion as New Pal's bump up to 5A has a couple of 4A sectionals (which I actually pointed out in a thread a couple of weeks ago) all over the place. It's temporary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, BTF said: Baseball is different than football. How often does the team with the best record win the World Series? If seeding didn't make any sense, no one would do it. It makes tons sense, which is why everyone does it. Indiana high school sports is the exception. 2018 NFL Playoffs: Wild Card Round: Road teams were 3-1. Divisional Round: Road teams were 0-4. Conference Championship Round: Road teams were 2-0. That's 5-5 if my math is correct. What was the 17 week regular season schedule for? The playoffs were seeded based on regular season record, correct? Road teams (worse in the regular season) won half of the games Edited October 11, 2019 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteEstonia Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 On 10/9/2019 at 6:46 PM, FWfootball10 said: The problem I can think of with not letting everyone in the tournament is the unbalanced schedules. You can easily have a team in any class go 4-5 and be better than a 9-0 team because of playing a much more challenging schedule. How do other states go about that? I’ve never looked into it. Some States make schools play a set schedule to determine who makes the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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