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If 5A Tournament was Seeded by Sagarin Rankings

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Posted (edited)

You lost me 20 seconds in when I saw...

Munster to New Albany

Evansville to Elkhart

Bloomington to LaPorte

Jeffersonville to West Lafayette

Bedford to Fort Wayne

 

No thanks...

 

 

Edited by Temptation
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Interesting. Could you separate north/south then re-seed? 

i’ve always thought 5A and 6A would benefit the most from seeding 

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You know the sectional draw is approaching and the tournament is getting closer when these sort of hypothetical posts pop up... waiting on the incoming outrage that ranked teams have to play one another so early.

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2 minutes ago, Temptation said:

You know the sectional draw is approaching and the tournament is getting closer when these sort of hypothetical posts pop up... waiting on the incoming outrage that ranked teams have to play one another so early.

Well there are 2 things that make zero sense:

1 - Everyone gets in the tournament 

2 - Not seeding the tournament

There are ZERO good arguments against seeding.  And in my opinion there are ZERO good arguments for the all in format.

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I actually like the post. The travel for some teams would be excruciating, but it would be fun to see some of these North/South match-ups that would otherwise never happen. 

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6 minutes ago, BTF said:

I actually like the post. The travel for some teams would be excruciating, but it would be fun to see some of these North/South match-ups that would otherwise never happen. 

Fun, but not practical.  When the goal of the tournament is to reward the state champion, the IHSAA doesn’t care “when” you play...

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3 minutes ago, Temptation said:

Fun, but not practical.  When the goal of the tournament is to reward the state champion, the IHSAA doesn’t care “when” you play...

Can't argue with any of that. I just get tired of watching rematches from a few weeks prior. I'd much rather see Snider draw Merrillville or Laffayette Jeff than a potential rematch with Homestead. Or how about Homestead vs Carmel. The greyhounds had their way with Homestead several years in a row. I'm sure Homestead would LOVE a crack at them this year. 

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20 minutes ago, BTF said:

Can't argue with any of that. I just get tired of watching rematches from a few weeks prior. I'd much rather see Snider draw Merrillville or Laffayette Jeff than a potential rematch with Homestead. Or how about Homestead vs Carmel. The greyhounds had their way with Homestead several years in a row. I'm sure Homestead would LOVE a crack at them this year. 

As fans, we’d love A LOT of things...

Gimme an SEC/Big 10 challenge in football annually.

How about a 16 team college football playoff?

How about we find a way to make the MLB/NBA regular seasons shorter and meaningful?

I could go on ALL DAY.

This is high school athletics people.  I love it to but at the end of the day the best team is holding the trophy on Thanksgiving weekend which is the ultimate goal.

 

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2 minutes ago, Temptation said:

As fans, we’d love A LOT of things...

Gimme an SEC/Big 10 challenge in football annually.

How about a 16 team college football playoff?

How about we find a way to make the MLB/NBA regular seasons shorter and meaningful?

I could go on ALL DAY.

This is high school athletics people.  I love it to but at the end of the day the best team is holding the trophy on Thanksgiving weekend which is the ultimate goal.

 

Keep going, those all sound like topics worth discussing. That's what we do on these forums. 

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2 hours ago, dmizers3 said:

Well there are 2 things that make zero sense:

1 - Everyone gets in the tournament 

2 - Not seeding the tournament

There are ZERO good arguments against seeding.  And in my opinion there are ZERO good arguments for the all in format.

The problem I can think of with not letting everyone in the tournament is the unbalanced schedules. You can easily have a team in any class go 4-5 and be better than a 9-0 team because of playing a much more challenging schedule. How do other states go about that? I’ve never looked into it.

To add on to what I said a good example is Bishop Luers in 2009. I believe they went 4-5 in the SAC then went on to win state.

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9 minutes ago, FWfootball10 said:

The problem I can think of with not letting everyone in the tournament is the unbalanced schedules. You can easily have a team in any class go 4-5 and be better than a 9-0 team because of playing a much more challenging schedule. How do other states go about that? I’ve never looked into it.

To add on to what I said a good example is Bishop Luers in 2009. I believe they went 4-5 in the SAC then went on to win state.

Ohio uses a point system to avoid that issue. And it doesn't start getting released until well into the season.   I don't know all the specifics though.  And the state is divided into 4 regions in each class with the top 8 in each region making the playoffs.   They also have alot more schools playing football. 

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3 hours ago, Temptation said:

.. waiting on the incoming outrage that ranked teams have to play one another so early.

Why would anyone be upset that the 3 top ranked teams (Sagarin) in a class (4 of the top 6) end up in the same Sectional?

Move along, nothing to see here.

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49 minutes ago, Lysander said:

Why would anyone be upset that the 3 top ranked teams (Sagarin) in a class (4 of the top 6) end up in the same Sectional?

Move along, nothing to see here.

They’d have to play each other eventually in order to win the title anyway, so why does it matter?

The NBA Western Conference, the SEC in football and the ACC in basketball would like to have a word with you,

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I love the all in format and the blind draw. It has adversely effected the team I root for and I don’t care.

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5 hours ago, CaptainHook said:

I love the all in format and the blind draw. It has adversely effected the team I root for and I don’t care.

I wouldn't mind seeding sectionals only because it could possibly set up a very good Sectional Championship.

I will give my BEST example of why I 100% love the All In Format.

Mooresville in 2017 Coach Gillin's first year there. They were coming off a 2-9 season in 2016, and were 1-9 headed into the tournament.

They hit the sectional and beat Connersville, but then upset New Castle at New Castle (whom was having a relatively good season in 2017). They ended up losing the Sectional Champ to Greenwood. However I think grabbing those 2 Sectional wins that year was a spring board to what you see now. Last year 8-1 in regular season, sectional Championship, close loss to Marion in Regionals. This year sitting at 5-2 with a 24-21 loss to Decatur Central, and 17-13 loss to Whiteland. Coach Gillin is a great coach and has them rolling, but I feel that 2017 season gave them a push. If there was a qualify format you likely don't see that confidence being built.

Just my 2 cents to agree with Captain!

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10 hours ago, BTF said:

Keep going, those all sound like topics worth discussing. That's what we do on these forums. 

Posted one in the OT forum.

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13 hours ago, FWfootball10 said:

The problem I can think of with not letting everyone in the tournament is the unbalanced schedules. You can easily have a team in any class go 4-5 and be better than a 9-0 team because of playing a much more challenging schedule. How do other states go about that? I’ve never looked into it.

To add on to what I said a good example is Bishop Luers in 2009. I believe they went 4-5 in the SAC then went on to win state.

Lots of different ways other states do it. Some use a points system which seems odd and can be manipulated through scheduling somewhat. Another one I know a couple states use is to play the teams in your conference (all in the same class so Indiana could go with sectional) and your conference record determines your qualification and seeding. Put 5A/6A into 4 8-team sectionals rather than 8 4-team sectionals so each team plays 7 sectional games during the season. This leaves 3 non-sectional games you can schedule with traditional or regional rivals. Qualification and seeding is based 100% on your sectional record so you aren't generally hurt by scheduling a tough non-sectional game (could be used for tie-breakers however). Top 4 teams qualify. #1 from Sectional 1 plays #4 from Sectional 2 and so forth so you aren't playing sectional opponents in the first round. You could still have top teams playing each other in the second or third round if they are geographically close. But this is a way to do it and still decide it on the field rather than through computer algorithms or subjective rankings. The drawback for Hoosiers is you get rid of the traditional conferences. You would also have similar complaints to today's sectional assignments.

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12 hours ago, Temptation said:

They’d have to play each other eventually in order to win the title anyway, so why does it matter?

Bla, bla, bla.....................you sound like a head coach trying to say the "right" thing.

The two best teams shouldn't have to play each other in the first round. They've earned the right to play a a couple of more weeks, therefore bringing in more $$$ for the athletic department. There has to be a reward for hard work. Not to mention, those two 9-0 teams are going to be a HUGE draw in the sectionals drawing fans from other programs. Gate revenue is kind of a big deal. 

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20 minutes ago, BTF said:

Bla, bla, bla.....................you sound like a head coach trying to say the "right" thing.

The two best teams shouldn't have to play each other in the first round. They've earned the right to play a a couple of more weeks, therefore bringing in more $$$ for the athletic department. There has to be a reward for hard work. Not to mention, those two 9-0 teams are going to be a HUGE draw in the sectionals drawing fans from other programs. Gate revenue is kind of a big deal. 

Yawn.

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On 10/9/2019 at 3:43 PM, Temptation said:

You lost me 20 seconds in when I saw...

Munster to New Albany

Evansville to Elkhart

Bloomington to LaPorte

Jeffersonville to West Lafayette

Bedford to Fort Wayne

 

No thanks...

 

 

Benton Central had to go to Evansville to play in the Semi-State last year in basketball. 

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4 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

Benton Central had to go to Evansville to play in the Semi-State last year in basketball. 

Awesome.  Thanks for the info.  Irrelevant to this conversation.

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6 minutes ago, Temptation said:

Awesome.  Thanks for the info.  Irrelevant to this conversation.

Not really but, you know everything..so..

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11 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

Not really but, you know everything..so..

Can you show us the softball pairings next?  Tennis?

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13 hours ago, BDGiant93 said:

Benton Central had to go to Evansville to play in the Semi-State last year in basketball. 

 

13 hours ago, Temptation said:

Awesome.  Thanks for the info.  Irrelevant to this conversation.

Marion had to travel to Evansville Central for the 4A South Semi-State last year. A 3 hr 51 min 9 or 4 hrs 9 min depending on which way was taken to get there..

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