Where's the Talent? - Ben Davis/WarrenCentral/Center Grove

[CaptainHook]

2 minutes ago, DT said:

I hope he goes where he wants to go and makes an impact at the next level.  We have seen several Indiana All American QBs sit the bench and then transfer due to lack of either PT or opportunity.  Id rather see a kid go to Central Michigan and break the school rushing and TD record than see him go to Virginia as a PWO and never see the field.  Best of luck to Charlie.  

Wherever he chooses, I just wanted to be clear the he "can't get a whiff from D1" schools isn't accurate.  Great kid and great family and I hope he goes wherever he feels is the best fit.

[TheStatGuy]

2 hours ago, DT said:

The recruiting services tell a different story.

Ben Davis has been producing fewer and fewer high level D1 players over the past decade.  

Center grove typically does not have Top 15 talent, but they will have a lot of guys in the Top 50.  That's why you see so many CG players go to The MAC, the academies or to IU.  

Warren has dominated the Top 15, but has none in the 2020 list.  Is that a one year blip, or a sign of the pool going dry?  Or somewhere in between?  

The recruiting services don't lie, and they don't play favorites.  

Who gives a flyin F on what team has top rated talent? Good lord. There are plenty of d1 kids on all three of those teams. 

 

[HoosierFB_JG]

3 hours ago, DT said:

The recruiting services tell a different story.

Ben Davis has been producing fewer and fewer high level D1 players over the past decade.  

Center grove typically does not have Top 15 talent, but they will have a lot of guys in the Top 50.  That's why you see so many CG players go to The MAC, the academies or to IU.  

Warren has dominated the Top 15, but has none in the 2020 list.  Is that a one year blip, or a sign of the pool going dry?  Or somewhere in between?  

The recruiting services don't lie, and they don't play favorites.  

Recruiting services don’t lie and don’t play favorites, but it doesn’t matter.  Giants might be getting less and less talent each year, but they still have won 2 titles in the last 5 years over Penn and Carmel by a combined score of 105-38.  CG has a title, Warren has a title and Carmel has a title in that same time span.

 

Avon 0, Brownsburg 0, HSE 0.  Fishers is the l my school from the HCC to win the big school title and that was 9 years ago.

[cg_holmeaid]

1 hour ago, TrojanDad said:

This year alone, former CGers starting at Stanford, Vandy and Louisville. Swann is a multiple year starter at Stanford. BTW, not a darn thing wrong playing for non Power 5 teams....Aukerman 2nd all time in sacks at Army and Ferguson currently starting LT at Air Force. They don’t take a backseat to anyone. Incredible young men. 

And you got big Nate Wozniak playing for the Falcons now! 

Edited October 14, 2019 by cg_holmeaid

[psaboy]

4 hours ago, DT said:

Steele is an Indiana State level talent.  Nice player, but that is probably his ceiling.  If he goes to a bigger school, he will be disappointed at lack of PT and transfer.

The greatest back in state history cant get a whiff from D1 recruiters.  Steele is far below that level.

Indiana is recruiting Charlie. Oh wait, you said D1, I forgot

Edited October 14, 2019 by psaboy

[Guest DT]

40 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

not half bad stats for frosh and soph years in the MIC.....and in addition to a back, I believe that young man could be a heck of a safety or LB at the next level.  Find me many others that have pulled those results for their first 2 years of high school playing in the MIC.

https://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/carson-steele/xwIXQ2sCEeeT-Oz0u-e-FA/football/stats.htm

 

Great numbers

[LC_Bears_04]

12 hours ago, HoosierFB_JG said:

BTW, did you know that the majority of the HCC has been in the largest class since 2003 and the suburb movement started happening nearly 20 years ago? 

 

Here we are though, still with a MIC conference that has won 17 of the last 20 titles.

 

The MIC is allowed to have down years.  2010 for example, Sagarin ratings of:

 

Carmel 2 (Lost sectional semi)

Warren Central 3 (Lost sectional round 1)

Center Grove 15 (Lost sectional round 1)

Ben Davis 19 (Lost sectional round 1)

Lawrence North 34 (Lost sectional semi)

Terre Haute North 52 (Lost sectional semi)

North Central 62 (Lost sectional round 1)

Terre Haute South 75 (Lost sectional round 1)

Average of 32.75, a far cry from this year’s average of 14.375.  Still ahead of the HCC 16.625

 

The MIC didn’t die die in 2010, it just came back stronger.  2019 might be down to the standards but the conference is young.  Mark my words.  2020 the conference will be strong again, and CG probably wins the title, possibly even back to back, especially seeing as Avon and Brownsburg lose a lot of talent and will take a step back.

 

Should be fun watching the back peddling next year.  

I agree with you that the MIC will be strong again in 2020, but Avon and Brownsburg will both return a lot of key juniors and be even better in 2020 than they are this year.  Off the top of my head here’s who I know each team returns:  Both teams’ QBs are juniors who are receiving Division I offers.  Avon returns offensive lineman Blake Fisher who is committed to Notre Dame.  Brownsburg returns WR Preston Terrell who is committed to Purdue, and OL Josh Sales who also has D1 offers.  I think Warren, Ben Davis, and CG will be better teams and contenders next year, but Avon and Brownsburg will still probably be the best 2 teams in class 6A in 2020.

[FastpacedO]

[Guest DT]

Interesting how The HCC is having success developing D1 quarterbacks while The MIC is not

 

[HoosierFB_JG]

58 minutes ago, DT said:

Interesting how The HCC is having success developing D1 quarterbacks while The MIC is not

 

The MIC just graduated Reese Taylor and Jayden George.  Reese Taylor has been mentioned in “best athlete in Indiana” discussions.

 

Maybe the MIC should be contracted...

[Staxawax]

4 hours ago, HoosierFB_JG said:

The MIC just graduated Reese Taylor and Jayden George.  Reese Taylor has been mentioned in “best athlete in Indiana” discussions.

 

Maybe the MIC should be contracted...

Speaking of Reese, I know he's injured.  Will he be redshirted this year?

[Guest DT]

4 hours ago, HoosierFB_JG said:

The MIC just graduated Reese Taylor and Jayden George.  Reese Taylor has been mentioned in “best athlete in Indiana” discussions.

 

Maybe the MIC should be contracted...

Nice players

Taylor is a DB and George a PWO who will never see the field at Alabama.  Somebody gave him some bad advice.  Could have been a 3 year starter at Western Michigan and had a shot at the pros while developing an NFL body in college.  

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by DT

[Staxawax]

12 hours ago, LC_Bears_04 said:

I agree with you that the MIC will be strong again in 2020, but Avon and Brownsburg will both return a lot of key juniors and be even better in 2020 than they are this year.  Off the top of my head here’s who I know each team returns:  Both teams’ QBs are juniors who are receiving Division I offers.  Avon returns offensive lineman Blake Fisher who is committed to Notre Dame.  Brownsburg returns WR Preston Terrell who is committed to Purdue, and OL Josh Sales who also has D1 offers.  I think Warren, Ben Davis, and CG will be better teams and contenders next year, but Avon and Brownsburg will still probably be the best 2 teams in class 6A in 2020.

For Avon to be a top contender next year, they will need to improve defensively and develop a good running back or two.  O line is always good and Hesson is a very good pocket passer.  But if they cannot run the ball........

[Footballking16]

11 minutes ago, Staxawax said:

Speaking of Reese, I know he's injured.  Will he be redshirted this year?

He played Saturday and laid some absolute wood on a kick off although it was ultimately called back due to an offsides. Not sure if he's still in the running to redshirt with the new 4 game rule but he has seen the field in at least more than 1 game. That I'm sure of.

[HoosierFB_JG]

4 hours ago, DT said:

Nice players

Taylor is a DB and George a PWO who will never see the field at Alabama.  Somebody gave him some bad advice.  Could have been a 3 year starter at Western Michigan and had a shot at the pros while developing an NFL body in college.  

 

Taylor is only a non-QB at the college level because of his height.  There’s also Kyle Castner who played at Columbia and was 4 completions away from the state record and led the Giants to a state title in 14.  Marqueis Gray was a D1 prospect and played QB at Minnesota and in the NFL transitioned to a TE.  I think with the type of athlete the MIC produces it’s OK that a majority of the D1 athletes aren’t QB’s.  MIC produces a lot of speed.

[Guest DT]

1 hour ago, HoosierFB_JG said:

Taylor is only a non-QB at the college level because of his height.  There’s also Kyle Castner who played at Columbia and was 4 completions away from the state record and led the Giants to a state title in 14.  Marqueis Gray was a D1 prospect and played QB at Minnesota and in the NFL transitioned to a TE.  I think with the type of athlete the MIC produces it’s OK that a majority of the D1 athletes aren’t QB’s.  MIC produces a lot of speed.

Good point.  MIC has always been a ground oriented conference.  Pike had a nice passing game some years back when Dominique Booth was there.  Id like to see a real passing guru come into the conference and see what he could do with the Lawrence schools or with Pike.  

Chris Coll, Mike Gillin, Shane Fry, are amongst a few who could push MIC defenses with an all out air attack.  

MIC coaches historically have not been adept at developing pro style quarterbacks.  I think that will change in the near future as the next group of up and comers have been trained under the new wide open philosophy.

[BDGiant93]

Asmar Bilal

Elijah Ball

Esezi Otomewo

Chris Evans

Broc Thompson

 

[AG]

On 10/13/2019 at 3:59 PM, DT said:

The recruiting services tell a different story.

Ben Davis has been producing fewer and fewer high level D1 players over the past decade.  

Center grove typically does not have Top 15 talent, but they will have a lot of guys in the Top 50.  That's why you see so many CG players go to The MAC, the academies or to IU.  

Warren has dominated the Top 15, but has none in the 2020 list.  Is that a one year blip, or a sign of the pool going dry?  Or somewhere in between?  

The recruiting services don't lie, and they don't play favorites.  

It's been well known for a couple of years that the 2020 class in Indiana as a whole is weak. This is following a 2019 class that was one of the best in state history with 8+ 4* recruits. This year there are two 4* recruits in the entire state.

[HoosierFB_JG]

3 hours ago, AG said:

It's been well known for a couple of years that the 2020 class in Indiana as a whole is weak. This is following a 2019 class that was one of the best in state history with 8+ 4* recruits. This year there are two 4* recruits in the entire state.

Agree.  You can definitely see the effect up here.  Happens about once/decade.

[FastpacedO]

16 hours ago, DT said:

Good point.  MIC has always been a ground oriented conference.  Pike had a nice passing game some years back when Dominique Booth was there.  Id like to see a real passing guru come into the conference and see what he could do with the Lawrence schools or with Pike.  

Chris Coll, Mike Gillin, Shane Fry, are amongst a few who could push MIC defenses with an all out air attack.  

MIC coaches historically have not been adept at developing pro style quarterbacks.  I think that will change in the near future as the next group of up and comers have been trained under the new wide open philosophy.

Great coaches adapt to their player personnel. While Coach Gillin and Coach Coll do like to throw the pigskin around, they are also smart enough coaches to adjust to what their players are best suited for. By that I mean if they have big strong O-lines and a good RB they will run the ball more. If they are better suited for throwing the ball they will throw the ball more. If they have both they will stay very balanced.

Looking at this years stats Mooresville is pretty balanced and Franklin while balanced teeters a little more on running the ball.

Mooresville Rushing 1,465 yds 218.1 YPG

Mooresville Passing 1,198 yds  149.8 YPG

Franklin Rushing 2,134 yds 266.8 YPG

Franklin Passing 1,381 Yds  172.6 YPG

[Guest DT]

Because of their numbers disadvantage,  LN, LC and PK have difficulty matching up and competing year to year in The MIC.  That's why I feel they need a "gimmick," or a different philosophy in terms of thrir offensive approach to football.

Center Grove is the ultimate "system" program.  They can compete against the megas only due to their precise execution of the system in which they play.  

LN, LC and PK are CG without a system or an identity.  Rodenberg supposedly was brought in to change the culture and identity at LC.  That remains to be seen.  Mallory is failing in trying to copy the CG model at LN.  Different kids.  Different mindset.  Different culture.  PK has no identity.  But they have athletes.

O'Shea has brought a PP mentality to NC and mixed it with great numbers and solid talent.  That is a recipe for success.

 

[Lysander]

37 minutes ago, DT said:

 

O'Shea has brought a PP mentality to NC and mixed it with great numbers and solid talent.  That is a recipe for success.

 

A question first - What is a PP mentality and how does one bring it?

In fact, I believe both his Defense and a Special Teams coaches were both most recently at Chatard. 

That said, not saying I agree.

[Guest DT]

56 minutes ago, Lysander said:

A question first - What is a PP mentality and how does one bring it?

In fact, I believe both his Defense and a Special Teams coaches were both most recently at Chatard. 

That said, not saying I agree.

Discipline

Order

Precision

Respect for Team

Respect for Authority

Respect for Opposition

School Pride

Family

Religion

Faith

Perseverance

I could go on and on

 

 

[Proud Papa]

On 10/13/2019 at 1:04 PM, JustRules said:

The MIC may be down but that means they are only very, very good and there isn't a dominant team. It wouldn't surprise me to see 3 of the final 4 teams from the MIC this year. It also wouldn't surprise me to see no MIC teams out by the semi-finals because there are good teams in those sectionals ready to take the next step. The fact the teams are more even in the MIC shouldn't indicate anything other than there is no dominant team this year. Even the "bad teams' (Pike, LC, LN) are very talented and would win or compete in every other 6A conference.

You realize the HCC was 5-2 against the MIC this year, right? Of those 5 wins, they included: 

Avon beating one of your champs (BD) 41-17

Fishers Beating one of your champs (NC) 26-0

Brownsburg beating one of your champs (NC) 29-25

HSE beat LC 24-20

Zionsville beat Pike 17-7

 

Your two wins were: 

LC (one of your champs) beating the HCC's 5th best team, HSE, 17-16

Carmel beating Noblesville (by a million) 

 

To say the MIC is just sooooo good and that's the reason for all the "L' within the conference.....is bonkers. 

[HoosierFB_JG]

This topic makes me laugh...