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Blind Draw - An Absolute Tragedy


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Just take each regional and seed the top 8 teams. Have the coaches in the regional vote on the top teams and put them accordingly.  The other 8 are blind draw where nobody gets their feelings hurt that they are 16th ranked. 
 

play the sectionals and regionals the same with home field determined the same way as it is now.

 

the idea that “you would have to play them eventually” falls completely flat when you consider that literally every other sport on every other level of play finds a way to seed...even racing there is qualifying

 

but hey. Indiana I guess just knows better than everyone else. Just look at how we pay our teachers and how our education stacks up to everyone else.

 

every sport, at every single level from HS to pro, in every state and around the world....they do this. But indiana, the state that underfunds our educators and schools while also criticizing them for not being RANKED (key emphasis in ranking) higher than other states, thinks they know better and shouldn’t do the same. 
 

I know this may be slightly off topic but come on. Only in indiana could they criticize teachers and such not being ranked higher but also  disagree with the idea of ranking its own sports teams.  Surprised they haven’t come out and said that studies shouldn’t rank states on how well they perform on delivering an education LOL

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9 hours ago, Coach Nowlin said:

and I would counter that one of the better crews was Butch Jones ( I know retired now) from Cass County himself.

Plenty of good Lafayette / Kokomo area crews to work that one per se. 

Same in Indy with Chatard/Brebeuf week 1 game 

Avon/Brownsburg is Semi Final round so half the crews are gone anyways 

He is to busy kicking my butt in Fantasy Football

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9 hours ago, vicvinegar said:

I could careless if the sectionals were seeded, but because of what footballtalking said is why I don't support it. Why do you want to take another week of football away from kids? Especially in 5A and 6A? So that way only 16 teams make it per class? That sounds real fun! 

Add a tenth regular season game and your problem is solved. Not that hard of a concept really.

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2 minutes ago, Bobref said:

It’s like you’re right there in my head. 😀

-add tenth regular season game

-formulate a rating system that effectively cuts ~half the field in half at the conclusion of the regular season (32 teams 1A-4A; 16 in 5A-6A)

-Once the field is established; split the top half into a "Northern Bracket" and the remaining half into a "Southern Bracket" and seed accordingly (1-16 1A-4A; 1-8 in 5A-6A North and South)

-neutral site semi-state games played as double headers 

-State finals Thanksgiving weekend at Lucas Oil Stadium stays the same

This not only enhances high school football in the state of Indiana, but gives the regular season actual meaning.   

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12 hours ago, jets said:

Funny as a wrestling coach we figure out how to SEED a SECTIONAL and I’m pretty sure that is IHSAA sanctioned. 

The fact the IHSAA won’t seed football sectionals is pure LAZINESS. A criteria could be set, just as it is in wrestling, and it would get accomplished and guess what?? It would be a helluva lot better than we have now. Would at least give SOME meaning to a good regular season. 

Seeding a sectional in wrestling is way different than seeding a sectional in football. Wrestling gets you 30+ points of data vs 9 you would get in football. Those kids are also more likely to compete against others in their sectional, not just a mainly conference schedule all season. 

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Just now, Thor77 said:

Seeding a sectional in wrestling is way different than seeding a sectional in football. Wrestling gets you 30+ points of data vs 9 you would get in football. Those kids are also more likely to compete against others in their sectional, not just a mainly conference schedule all season. 

Exactly.  If your team is so tough, prove it.

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8 minutes ago, Gipper said:

Exactly.  If your team is so tough, prove it.

It's not about proving how tough your team is, it's about making the regular season mean something. What value is there in a conference title that doesn't get you a protected seed or a bye in the first round and at the very worst doesn't even guarantee you a home game in the first round? Avon is a game away from going undefeated in one of the toughest conferences in the state. Their reward? Drawing an away game against the second best team in the state the opening weekend. It's maddening. It's wrong. Show me another sport at any level where a conference championship doesn't impact your postseason draw. You can't.

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3 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

It's not about proving how tough your team is, it's about making the regular season mean something. What value is there in a conference title that doesn't get you a protected seed or a bye in the first round and at the very worst doesn't even guarantee you a home game in the first round? Avon is a game away from going undefeated in one of the toughest conferences in the state. Their reward? Drawing an away game against the second best team in the state the opening weekend. It's maddening. It's wrong. Show me another sport at any level where a conference championship doesn't impact your postseason draw. You can't.

As I have always maintained, no one gets all the cards.  Sometimes the football gods are on your side, sometimes not so much...

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1 minute ago, Gipper said:

As I have always maintained, no one gets all the cards.  Sometimes the football gods are on your side, sometimes not so much...

That's only because we continue to allow it to happen lol. If this were any other state in the country, Avon gets a protected seed or bye and they aren't playing the second best in the state the opening weekend. Avon/Brownsburg is only allowed to happen because we continue to allow it to happen. That's why I'm advocating change, to make the regular season actually mean something. 

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I have coached in this system we currently have my entire career (since 2003, or 1999 if you count Film Engineer) and not one time have I had a sense that the 9 games we played/coached in were "meaningless"   

I have had teams that you preach and preach stay patient, we will get healthier, we are playing tough teams now, but come week 10 it will pay off like in 2006, we finished regular season 3-6.

 

2006 SEASON (6-7)
Coach: Chris Meeks
Aug. 18   North Newton W 61 0    
Aug. 25 at Kankakee Valley L 12 24    
Sep. 1   North Judson L 0 3    
Sep. 8 at Tipton L 7 28    
Sep. 15 at Twin Lakes L 9 41    
Sep. 22   West Lafayette W 16 14    
Sep. 29 at Delphi L 6 14    
Oct. 6   Sheridan L 17 34    
Oct. 13   Benton Central W 33 6    
Oct. 20 at Knox W 23 0   sect
Oct. 27   North Judson W 16 7   sect
Nov. 3 at Hammond Noll W 20 7   sect
Nov. 10   Jimtown L 9 13   regn

 

 

or 2008 finishing 4-5 on the year: 

2008 SEASON (7-6)
Coach: Chris Meeks
Aug. 22 at Kankakee Valley W 35 14    
Aug. 29   North Newton W 53 0    
Sep. 5   North Judson L 14 28    
Sep. 12 at Tipton L 7 26    
Sep. 19 at Twin Lakes W 32 24    
Sep. 26   West Lafayette L 25 35    
Oct. 3 at Delphi W 45 7    
Oct. 10   Sheridan L 7 42    
Oct. 17   Benton Central L 0 35    
Oct. 24 at Hammond Noll W 54 24   sect
Oct. 31   Winamac W 55 27   sect
Nov. 7 at North Judson W 9 0   sect
Nov. 14   Lewis Cass L 14 30   regn
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2 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

I have coached in this system we currently have my entire career (since 2003, or 1999 if you count Film Engineer) and not one time have I had a sense that the 9 games we played/coached in were "meaningless"   

I have had teams that you preach and preach stay patient, we will get healthier, we are playing tough teams now, but come week 10 it will pay off like in 2006, we finished regular season 3-6.

 

2006 SEASON (6-7)
Coach: Chris Meeks
Aug. 18   North Newton W 61 0    
Aug. 25 at Kankakee Valley L 12 24    
Sep. 1   North Judson L 0 3    
Sep. 8 at Tipton L 7 28    
Sep. 15 at Twin Lakes L 9 41    
Sep. 22   West Lafayette W 16 14    
Sep. 29 at Delphi L 6 14    
Oct. 6   Sheridan L 17 34    
Oct. 13   Benton Central W 33 6    
Oct. 20 at Knox W 23 0   sect
Oct. 27   North Judson W 16 7   sect
Nov. 3 at Hammond Noll W 20 7   sect
Nov. 10   Jimtown L 9 13   regn

 

 

or 2008 finishing 4-5 on the year: 

2008 SEASON (7-6)
Coach: Chris Meeks
Aug. 22 at Kankakee Valley W 35 14    
Aug. 29   North Newton W 53 0    
Sep. 5   North Judson L 14 28    
Sep. 12 at Tipton L 7 26    
Sep. 19 at Twin Lakes W 32 24    
Sep. 26   West Lafayette L 25 35    
Oct. 3 at Delphi W 45 7    
Oct. 10   Sheridan L 7 42    
Oct. 17   Benton Central L 0 35    
Oct. 24 at Hammond Noll W 54 24   sect
Oct. 31   Winamac W 55 27   sect
Nov. 7 at North Judson W 9 0   sect
Nov. 14   Lewis Cass L 14 30   regn

Meaningless in the sense that nothing you do in the regular season impacts your chances in the postseason. Go undefeated and you can play another undefeated team in your opening game. Go winless and there's a chance you can play a 1 win team the opening weekend. That ain't right. The postseason draw should impacted by the regular season. It isn't. It's a glorified 9 week exhibition. 

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Try this exercise. Contact a friend or relative in another state who is a sports fan. Explain the high school tournament process to them. They won't believe you. #1 and #2 playing each other in the first round?  I also grabbed a couple other random oddities. Sectional 33 Boone Grove (8-0) at Whiting (2-6) and Sectional 42 Trader's Point (700) at Tri-County (1-7). Also sectional 34 Pioneer at Cass (both 7-1) in the first round of one half of the bracket and Manchester at Bremen (both 2-6) on the other side of the bracket.

Nobody would ever come up with this system if they were tasked with designing a post season tournament. It happened to avoid a lawsuit. It does still crown a champion at the end, but it's one of the most ridiculous ways of doing it.

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21 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

That's only because we continue to allow it to happen lol. If this were any other state in the country, Avon gets a protected seed or bye and they aren't playing the second best in the state the opening weekend. Avon/Brownsburg is only allowed to happen because we continue to allow it to happen. That's why I'm advocating change, to make the regular season actually mean something. 

I see your point, but stodgy institutions/cults like the IHSAA probably don't deal with change well.

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Another year, another wasted opportunity to make the regular season have meaning.

Of course, as I had hoped would not happen, Pioneer and Lewis Cass in the opening round. Turnout for a sectional title game would have been much higher if they had met in the Championship.

Simple solution:

Continue with All-in Blind draw AFTER you seed the top 2 (I'd even support Top 3) and put them in opposite sides of the bracket.

Still allows for potential big title game and still allows for your potential 1-2 win teams to meet in the first round and get a feel good win.

I don't understand why this has to be so difficult.

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8 hours ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

Just take each regional and seed the top 8 teams. Have the coaches in the regional vote on the top teams and put them accordingly.  The other 8 are blind draw where nobody gets their feelings hurt that they are 16th 

play the sectionals and regionals the same with home field determined the same way as it is now.

 

 

 

I like the idea of doing a way with Sectionals for a while now having never thought of doing it like that but I like it,  but one of my big things is let the doing away with the neutral field idea.  We all know it is not so why not let the home team treat it like all the other game.  I Love Friday Night Lights and with  this whole neutral field thing you lose a little bit of that.  So that is why I would like to let the better team that earned it in the regular season,  be the home team and treat it as such.

As far as ever one getting in and other state do not do it and we are the only one. well what is wrong with that Basketball has been all in for close to a 100 years and no is say we need to change it.  I like the all in format.  Lets say you have a lot of injury's the start of the year and have to play some young kids and lose a the first 3  or 4 games  but by the end of the regular session you are one of the best team in the state and  you get some key guys back and the younger kids take off but you  do not make the playoffs due to the fact you had kids hurt in the regular season.  I know some will say that is football and the way it goes and that is true,  but when these kids get only 4 years of high school let them enjoy it and have a chance ever  year to win it all because we know it how fast the 4 years go by and you only get to being in high school once!!

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12 minutes ago, Hoosier Hawk said:

Another year, another wasted opportunity to make the regular season have meaning.

Of course, as I had hoped would not happen, Pioneer and Lewis Cass in the opening round. Turnout for a sectional title game would have been much higher if they had met in the Championship.

Simple solution:

Continue with All-in Blind draw AFTER you seed the top 2 (I'd even support Top 3) and put them in opposite sides of the bracket.

Still allows for potential big title game and still allows for your potential 1-2 win teams to meet in the first round and get a feel good win.

I don't understand why this has to be so difficult.

"STILL TELL THE FANS ITS A BLIND DRAW" whisper voice... lol

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3 minutes ago, Trojanmp52 said:

Lets say you have a lot of injury's the start of the year and have to play some young kids and lose a the first 3  or 4 games  but by the end of the regular session you are one of the best team in the state and  you get some key guys back and the younger kids take off but you  do not make the playoffs due to the fact you had kids hurt in the regular season.

That's called life. Every other state in the country has that part figured out.

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