Guest DT Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Lysander said: So, in summary, you agree with me - the current system is wrong and if we truly were football fans we would fix it. Nope. I have not seen a compelling argument that pushes me to change my position. To me there are three options : Option 1 - Maintain the status quo / It works just fine. Option 2 - Go to qualification with seeding. Give non qualifying schools the option to play a week 10 game if they choose to play. Option 3 - Contract to 280. Eliminate the bottom 40 schools who dont want to play football anymore , giving them the option to take a one time opt out. (they are out there) Maintain the all in as competitive balance will be significantly improved and early round blowouts reduced via contraction. Edited October 14, 2019 by DT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, DT said: Nope. I have not seen a compelling argument that pushes me to change my position. To me there are three options : Option 1 - Maintain the status quo / It works just fine. Option 2 - Go to qualification with seeding. Give non qualifying schools the option to play a week 10 game if they choose to play. Option 3 - Contract to 280. Eliminate the bottom 40 schools who dont want to play football anymore , giving them the option to take a one time opt out. (they are out there) Maintain the all in as competitive balance will be significantly improved and early round blowouts reduced via contraction. I would take options 2 & 3 combined. "Back in the day", meaning the early 1980's for myself, we played a 10 game regular season schedule and had to qualify for the playoffs. I believe that was the infamous "cluster" era? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DT Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 11 minutes ago, Footballking16 said: Ok Kentucky? Another basketball first state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysander Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, DT said: I was in favor of qualification for many years, but changed my position when I came to the undeniable conclusion that outcomes would not change. There are only a handful of schools in each class that have a real chance at hoisting the championship trophy. Changing from the all in to the qualification will not affect that outcome in any way. So why change? Again, your fundamental point previously was that the decision makers just don’t really care enough about football. Now you appear to be saying the same about yourself. Your argument about “Outcome” makes no sense. Our personal “outcome” in life ends in a shallow grave 100% of the time. Using your logic, there is no reason to try to improve the journey to our inevitable “outcome”. Rather we just get to the “Outcome” now.....since the journey seems irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DT Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Lysander said: Again, your fundamental point previously was that the decision makers just don’t really care enough about football. Now you appear to be saying the same about yourself. Your argument about “Outcome” makes no sense. Our personal “outcome” in life ends in a shallow grave 100% of the time. Using your logic, there is no reason to try to improve the journey to our inevitable “outcome”. Rather we just get to the “Outcome” now.....since the journey seems irrelevant. If change brings about improvement, lets change. Im not big on lateral moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 7 minutes ago, DT said: Another basketball first state. I know, and they somehow have managed to go to a seeding/qualifier format. That's my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysander Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 Just now, DT said: If change brings about improvement, lets change. Im not big on lateral moves. “Life” is ONLY about lateral moves. It always ends the same way. The joy is in the journey. The only thing that can be “Improved” is the journey. Your the guy that’s hung up about the outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DT Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 5 minutes ago, Footballking16 said: I know, and they somehow have managed to go to a seeding/qualifier format. That's my point. Are they happy with it? 4 minutes ago, Lysander said: “Life” is ONLY about lateral moves. It always ends the same way. The joy is in the journey. The only thing that can be “Improved” is the journey. Your the guy that’s hung up about the outcome. I've made many moves in my life. None were intended to be lateral. All had a significant impact on the eventual outcome. But that's just me. Your journey belongs to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 Just now, DT said: Are they happy with it? I don't know as I haven't polled the 4+ million Kentuckian's for their opinion. I can't imagine they'd be thrilled with the two best teams playing each other in the first round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DT Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 (edited) It would be good to know how they feel about it. Perhaps they are envious of the Indiana model. Do some research and enlighten us. You may be in for a surprise. Edited October 14, 2019 by DT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementbias Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 I've saw one post I like on this discussion and I agree with seeding the tournament by regionals. Only seeding the top 8 was mentioned and then random drawing the rest of the teams. You can award 2 sectional champs after 3 games (ex 1-4A) (2 games for 5/6A) still. You can have the seeded teams host the sectional games and then higher seed hosting in the 2nd/3rd sectional tournament games. Then start neutral field for regional games and semi state games. I'd classify regionals as NW, NE, SW, & SE. I'd rotate which regional champ plays each other each year. So year 1-NW vs SW & NE vs SE, Year 2-NW vs NE & SW vs SE, and Year 3-NW vs SE & NE vs SW. What I like about our current format over Ohio: All in What I dislike compared to Ohio: we don't seed Simplify/compromise: All in with half seeded & half random draw. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 13 minutes ago, DT said: It would be good to know how they feel about it. Perhaps they are envious of the Indiana model. Do some research and enlighten us. You may be in for a surprise. Can't imagine there's much envy when 49 other states + DC have a qualifying/seeding format. Indiana isn't the one that "gets it". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Nowlin Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 I do find it amusing, even though we have had a few rebuilds over the years the pitch forks come a calling this week But when you look at the draw, I mean, statistically speaking, the Avon/Brownsburg game is not a surprise as only 4 teams vs 8 teams Then to have only 2 other matchups that creates outrage is pretty darn impressive Don't forget to become a booster today!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globemstr3 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 (edited) I just think if you Don't seed your really doing a bad deal on gate sales for the students, fans, and schools. I can only speak of Sec 40. Yes Miners play NP I believe at Linton. MD plays another team that they are supposed to beat. Im sure they will handily as well. But Linton and MD are in the same bracket. Thats means they have to play each other to even get to the Finals. Thats insane.Guess who are the 2 top teams in 40? MD and Linton. Its just not a good way to start a Tournament IMHO Edited October 14, 2019 by globemstr3 Clarify Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysander Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said: But when you look at the draw, I mean, statistically speaking, the Avon/Brownsburg game is not a surprise as only 4 teams vs 8 teams Agreed. It’s going to happen in 5A and 6A.....under the current setup. Edited October 14, 2019 by Lysander 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan88 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Lysander said: In 50% of our 6 classes (Classes 1A-6A), there is a game being played the first round that might well have been a game that should have been played in LOS on Thanksgiving weekend per Sagarin (and I’m tired of hearing all of the bonehead b!tching about Sagarin....as if some polled Sportswriter or Coach in Angola knows ANYTHING about the relative strength of a team in Evansville or vice versa.....give me a break). 6A: Sagarin #1 Avon v. Sagarin #2 Brownsburg 3A: Sagarin #1 Chatard v. Sagarin #3 Brebeuf 2A: Sagarin #1 Lewis Cass v. Sagarin No. 2 Pioneer Rather than football fans being able to enjoy the ability to see these games live, they will as likely as not be watching some 2-7 teams pound away at each other.....with one of them actually living to play another day. While 50% of those 6 teams cited above Seniors will be turning in their gear having played their last game ever. Teams and kids that have spent years honing their skills to play at the highest levels in their class denied the chance to play in a high profile and electric Sectional, Regional, Semi-State or even State Championship game. But we would rather let ping pong balls decide....because “it’s the only fair way”. Its flatly wrong and we all know it. And don’t give me this crap about “Football Gods”, “Sh!t Happens”, etc., etc. This situation exists because WE allow it to.....not some fictional Football God. We are just too damn lazy and indifferent to do anything about it. If we really are honest to God fans of the game why do we tolerate this? Amen! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said: But when you look at the draw, I mean, statistically speaking, the Avon/Brownsburg game is not a surprise as only 4 teams vs 8 teams In a qualifier system that eliminates half the field at the conclusion of the regular season, not that hard to seed teams 1-8 in a North bracket and 1-8 in a South bracket once the field has been established. Edited October 14, 2019 by Footballking16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuleDriver Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 30 minutes ago, Footballking16 said: In a qualifier system that eliminates half the field at the conclusion of the regular season With half the field eliminated how are we going to fill all the weeks up till thanksgiving weekend with games. Add a few regular season games i guess? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, MuleDriver said: With half the field eliminated how are we going to fill all the weeks up till thanksgiving weekend with games. Add a few regular season games i guess? Add a tenth regular season game and everything stays the same. Our current week 10 is the first round of sectionals for 1A-4A and a few 5A schools. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 Come on guys, you can get there...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gipper Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 5 minutes ago, DannEllenwood said: Come on guys, you can get there...... I say it's eclipsed by 2:00 CDT... and I'll do my part! consummate teammate--that's how I roll... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustRules Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 1 hour ago, DT said: It would be good to know how they feel about it. Perhaps they are envious of the Indiana model. Do some research and enlighten us. You may be in for a surprise. This is an unscientific poll but 100% of the people I've told about how Indiana does their tournament laughed and accused me of lying. Nobody can believe a state would do this. And I try to present it in a positive light so as to not skew the answers. The most common response is "any system where a 9-0 team could travel to an 0-9 team in the first round of a tournament is completely ridiculous." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DT Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, JustRules said: This is an unscientific poll but 100% of the people I've told about how Indiana does their tournament laughed and accused me of lying. Nobody can believe a state would do this. And I try to present it in a positive light so as to not skew the answers. The most common response is "any system where a 9-0 team could travel to an 0-9 team in the first round of a tournament is completely ridiculous." If nothing else, we are unique. One advantage we have is a lack of bickering due to playoff exclusion. Look at the surrounding states. Especially Illinois. They seem to be tinkering with their playoff system all the time. That is a clear sign of dissatisfaction amongst the rank and file. Tennessee and KY are dealing with PP issues. In Indiana, all is quiet. Everyone is satisfied. The IHSAA got it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, DT said: In Indiana, all is quiet. Everyone is satisfied. Any system that pits the literal two best teams in the entire state against each other in the opening round in which the winner gets either a soon to be 1-8 team or a 3-6 team for the sectional title is absolute failure. It's not just broken, it's fundamentally flawed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DT Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, Footballking16 said: Any system that pits the literal two best teams in the entire state against each other in the opening round in which the winner gets either a soon to be 1-8 team or a 3-6 team for the sectional title is absolute failure. It's not just broken, it's fundamentally flawed. Bad publicity is still publicity The IHSAA would rather have people complaining about the seeding process than not talking about it at all. Its a great discussion point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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