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Blind Draw - An Absolute Tragedy

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I haven't researched this, but I doubt there are few other states that use a blind draw in the football playoffs. Georgia certainly doesn't and I don't think any neighboring states here do. No NCAA football playoffs use a blind draw. Indiana is always way behind the rest of the country in most things and this is another example of that. 

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2 minutes ago, gahoosierfan said:

I haven't researched this, but I doubt there are few other states that use a blind draw in the football playoffs. Georgia certainly doesn't and I don't think any neighboring states here do. No NCAA football playoffs use a blind draw. Indiana is always way behind the rest of the country in most things and this is another example of that. 

Try zero states. Nobody but Indiana uses an all-in, blind draw format. I believe Minnesota is the only other state with an all-in format, but it's seeded.

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15 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

That’s irrelevant. The current format renders the regular season meaningless.

Isn't it logical that a team is fresher and healthier in Week 10 than in Week 12, and likely playing its best football at that point in the regular season?  If its inevitable that the top two teams will determine who is eventually sectional champ, why not get it out of the way in Week 10 when both teams are fully playoff ready?

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Just now, DT said:

Isn't it logical that a team is fresher and healthier in Week 10 than in Week 12, and likely playing its best football at that point in the regular season?  If its inevitable that the top two teams will determine who is eventually sectional champ, why not get it out of the way in Week 10 when both teams are fully playoff ready?

Sure. Let's have de-facto state championships in round 1 and then try and enjoy a watered down postseason as it extends. Seems fun. I enjoy 50 point blowouts in the state finals as much as the next guy.

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1 minute ago, Footballking16 said:

Sure. Let's have de-facto state championships in round 1 and then try and enjoy a watered down postseason as it extends. Seems fun. I enjoy 50 point blowouts in the state finals as much as the next guy.

If you seeded sectionals top to bottom, you would have a plethora of first round blowouts.  Attendance would be down statewide as the outcome is predetermined.  The blind draw keeps the first round interesting.  A few early tournament blowouts could lull a very good team to sleep, setting one up for a sectional championship round letdown.

There are very few upsets in high school football.  Many comparisons are made to professional sport seeding, but pro sports are controlled by salary caps that limit the gap between the very best and the very worst.  The gap between the best and the worst in Indiana class sports is massive.  Upsets simply do not happen.

The blind draw gives you the best of both worlds.  It limits the amount of first round blowouts, and provides for some very compelling matchups at the same time.

I would like to see conference champions rewarded with an automatic home berth in the opening round in recognition of their regular season success.  

 

 

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5 minutes ago, DT said:

If you seeded sectionals top to bottom, you would have a plethora of first round blowouts.  Attendance would be down statewide as the outcome is predetermined.  The blind draw keeps the first round interesting.  A few early tournament blowouts could lull a very good team to sleep, setting one up for a sectional championship round letdown.

There are very few upsets in high school football.  Many comparisons are made to professional sport seeding, but pro sports are controlled by salary caps that limit the gap between the very best and the very worst.  The gap between the best and the worst in Indiana class sports is massive.  Upsets simply do not happen.

The blind draw gives you the best of both worlds.  It limits the amount of first round blowouts, and provides for some very compelling matchups at the same time.

I would like to see conference champions rewarded with an automatic home berth in the opening round in recognition of their regular season success.  

 

 

You know what limits first round blowouts? A qualifying format. Seeding the sectionals appropriately would justify the means to eliminate half the field after the conclusion of the regular season. It's perhaps the only reason why the IHSAA has implemented a blind draw. It's not right. The blind draw waters down the entire postseason and renders the regular season meaningless. 

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39 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

That's called life. Every other state in the country has that part figured out.

That  makes all the other states right.  If all the other state when to one time zone would you agree just because they did it.  Just because every else does it does not make it right. 

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10 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

You know what limits first round blowouts? A qualifying format. Seeding the sectionals appropriately would justify the means to eliminate half the field after the conclusion of the regular season. It's perhaps the only reason why the IHSAA has implemented a blind draw. It's not right. The blind draw waters down the entire postseason and renders the regular season meaningless. 

I certainly see your point.  Schools like Shelbyville, South Newton and Munster have no business participating in a post season tournament.

I've been thinking about the Center Grove - Cathedral game this week.  

There is nothing on the line in this game.

Will the teams go all out, or play it safe and preserve their health for the tournament.?

Can you do both at the same time?

CG changed its week 9 scheduling slot with Warren because both schools beat each other up and were worn down heading in to tournament play.  Im not sure that CG did themselves any favors by swapping out WC for Cathedral.  

 

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15 minutes ago, DT said:

If you seeded sectionals top to bottom, you would have a plethora of first round blowouts.  Attendance would be down statewide as the outcome is predetermined.  The blind draw keeps the first round interesting.  A few early tournament blowouts could lull a very good team to sleep, setting one up for a sectional championship round letdown.

There are very few upsets in high school football.  Many comparisons are made to professional sport seeding, but pro sports are controlled by salary caps that limit the gap between the very best and the very worst.  The gap between the best and the worst in Indiana class sports is massive.  Upsets simply do not happen.

The blind draw gives you the best of both worlds.  It limits the amount of first round blowouts, and provides for some very compelling matchups at the same time.

I would like to see conference champions rewarded with an automatic home berth in the opening round in recognition of their regular season success.  

 

 

I like what this guy is saying......  

Its ok to be different everyone

Signed Indiana 

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In 50% of our 6 classes (Classes 1A-6A), there is a game being played the first round that might well have been a game that should have been played in LOS on Thanksgiving weekend per Sagarin (and I’m tired of hearing all of the bonehead b!tching about Sagarin....as if some polled Sportswriter or Coach in Angola knows ANYTHING about the relative strength of a team in Evansville or vice versa.....give me a break).

6A: Sagarin #1 Avon v. Sagarin #2  Brownsburg

3A: Sagarin #1 Chatard v. Sagarin #3 Brebeuf

2A: Sagarin #1 Lewis Cass v. Sagarin No. 2 Pioneer

Rather than football fans being able to enjoy the ability to see these games live, they will as likely as not be watching some 2-7 teams pound away at each other.....with one of them actually living to play another day.  While 50% of those 6 teams cited above Seniors will be turning in their gear having played their last game ever.  

Teams and kids that have spent years honing their skills to play at the highest levels in their class denied the chance to play in a high profile and electric  Sectional, Regional, Semi-State or even State Championship game.  

But we would rather let ping pong balls decide....because “it’s the only fair way”.  

Its flatly wrong and we all know it.

And don’t give me this crap about “Football Gods”, “Sh!t Happens”, etc., etc.

This situation exists because WE allow it to.....not some fictional Football God.  We are just too damn lazy and indifferent to do anything about it.

If we really are honest to God fans of the game why do we tolerate this?

 

 

Edited by Lysander
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2 minutes ago, DT said:

I certainly see your point.

I've been thinking about the Center grove - Cathedral game this week.  

There is nothing on the line in this game.

Will the teams go all out, or play it safe and preserve their health for the tournament.?

Can you do both at the same time.  

CG changed its week 9 scheduling slot with Warren because both schools beat each other up and were worn down heading in to tournament play.  Im not that CG did themselves any favors by swapping out WC for Cathedral.  

 

Except for last year, the games between Cathedral and Center Grove have been pretty exciting given the final score. Cathedral and Center Grove both have byes the following week. I suspect one of Cathedral's best players will be held out this week for precautionary reasons as he was injured against Brebeuf.

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3 minutes ago, Lysander said:

In 50% of our 6 classes (Classes 1A-6A), there is a game being played the first round that might well have been a game that should have been played in LOS on Thanksgiving weekend per Sagarin (and I’m tired of hearing all of the bonehead b!tching about Sagarin....as if some polled Sportswriter or Coach in Angola knows ANYTHING about the relative strength of a team in Evansville or vice versa.....give me a break).

6A: Sagarin #1 Avon v. Sagarin #2  Brownsburg

3A: Sagarin #1 Chatard v. Sagarin #3 Brebeuf

2A: Sagarin #1 Lewis Cass v. Sagarin No. 2 Pioneer

Rather than football fans being able to enjoy the ability to see these games live, they will as likely as not be watching some 2-7 teams pound away at each other.....with one of them actually living to play another day.  While 50% of those 6 teams cited above Seniors will be turning in their gear having played their last game ever.  

Teams and kids that have spent years honing their skills to play at the highest levels in their class denied the chance to play in a high profile and electric  Sectional, Regional, Semi-State or even State Championship game.  

No.  

We would rather let ping pong balls decide....because “it’s the only fair way”.  

Its flatly wrong and we all know it.

And don’t give me this crap about “Football Gods”, “Sh!t Happens”, etc., etc.

This situation exists because WE allow it to.....not some fictional Football God.  We are just too damn lazy and indifferent to do anything about it.

If we really are honest to God fans of the game why do we tolerate this?

 

 

Never, I repeat never anger the football gods...

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8 minutes ago, Lysander said:

In 50% of our 6 classes (Classes 1A-6A), there is a game being played the first round that might well have been a game that should have been played in LOS on Thanksgiving weekend per Sagarin (and I’m tired of hearing all of the bonehead b!tching about Sagarin....as if some polled Sportswriter or Coach in Angola knows ANYTHING about the relative strength of a team in Evansville or vice versa.....give me a break).

6A: Sagarin #1 Avon v. Sagarin #2  Brownsburg

3A: Sagarin #1 Chatard v. Sagarin #3 Brebeuf

2A: Sagarin #1 Lewis Cass v. Sagarin No. 2 Pioneer

Rather than football fans being able to enjoy the ability to see these games live, they will as likely as not be watching some 2-7 teams pound away at each other.....with one of them actually living to play another day.  While 50% of those 6 teams cited above Seniors will be turning in their gear having played their last game ever.  

Teams and kids that have spent years honing their skills to play at the highest levels in their class denied the chance to play in a high profile and electric  Sectional, Regional, Semi-State or even State Championship game.  

But we would rather let ping pong balls decide....because “it’s the only fair way”.  

Its flatly wrong and we all know it.

And don’t give me this crap about “Football Gods”, “Sh!t Happens”, etc., etc.

This situation exists because WE allow it to.....not some fictional Football God.  We are just too damn lazy and indifferent to do anything about it.

If we really are honest to God fans of the game why do we tolerate this?

 

 

PREACH!!!

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2 minutes ago, Lysander said:

In 50% of our 6 classes (Classes 1A-6A), there is a game being played the first round that might well have been a game that should have been played in LOS on Thanksgiving weekend per Sagarin (and I’m tired of hearing all of the bonehead b!tching about Sagarin....as if some polled Sportswriter or Coach in Angola knows ANYTHING about the relative strength of a team in Evansville or vice versa.....give me a break).

6A: Sagarin #1 Avon v. Sagarin #2  Brownsburg

3A: Sagarin #1 Chatard v. Sagarin #3 Brebeuf

2A: Sagarin #1 Lewis Cass v. Sagarin No. 2 Pioneer

Rather than football fans being able to enjoy the ability to see these games live, they will as likely as not be watching some 2-7 teams pound away at each other.....with one of them actually living to play another day.  While 50% of those 6 teams cited above Seniors will be turning in their gear having played their last game ever.  

Teams and kids that have spent years honing their skills to play at the highest levels in their class denied the chance to play in a high profile and electric  Sectional, Regional, Semi-State or even State Championship game.  

No.  

We would rather let ping pong balls decide....because “it’s the only fair way”.  

Its flatly wrong and we all know it.

And don’t give me this crap about “Football Gods”, “Sh!t Happens”, etc., etc.

This situation exists because WE allow it to.....not some fictional Football God.  We are just too damn lazy and indifferent to do anything about it.

If we really are honest to God fans of the game why do we tolerate this?

 

 

I think you have to take state athletic culture into account.

Indiana is NOT a football state.  Texas, Florida, Ohio, PA, Louisiana are football states.  Basketball culture is embedded in the DNA of our state.  That is a good thing, something to be embraced, as the Texans and Ohioans and Floridians embrace their football culture.  

Why should a basketball first state treat football the same way a football first state treats football?

Indiana layers its treasured and beloved basketball formula on top of the football tournament - and it works perfectly.

When contraction whittles football down to the targeted 280 schools, perhaps then a new format will need to be addressed.  Until then, the current model is perfect for the state, a basketball first state.  

 

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1 minute ago, DT said:

I think you have to take state athletic culture into account.

Indiana is NOT a football state.  Texas, Florida, Ohio, PA, Louisiana are football states.  Basketball culture is embedded in the DNA of our state.  That is a good thing, something to be embraced, as the Texans and Ohioans and Floridians embrace their football culture.  

Why should a basketball first state treat football the same way a football first state treats football?

Indiana layers its treasured and beloved basketball formula on top of the football tournament - and it works perfectly.

When contraction whittles football down to the targeted 280 schools, perhaps then a new format will need to be addressed.  Until then, the current model is perfect for the state, a basketball first state.  

 

Are Rhode Island, Wyoming, and Alaska football states? How have they figured it out? Our neighbors to the south are a basketball state. Why haven't they been held back?

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If the football gods are not appeased, you're going to see an increase in ACL tears, knocked up cheerleaders and tepid hot chocolate--nobody wants any part of that.

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2 minutes ago, DT said:

I think you have to take state athletic culture into account.

Indiana is NOT a football state.  Texas, Florida, Ohio, PA, Louisiana are football states.  Basketball culture is embedded in the DNA of our state.  That is a good thing, something to be embraced, as the Texans and Ohioans and Floridians embrace their football culture.  

Why should a basketball first state treat football the same way a football first state treats football?

Indiana layers its treasured and beloved basketball formula on top of the football tournament - and it works perfectly.

When contraction whittles football down to the targeted 280 schools, perhaps then a new format will need to be addressed.  Until then, the current model is perfect for the state, a basketball first state.  

 

Clearly it’s working “perfectly” 

 

also this idea that Indiana can’t be a football state is BS.  I guess I miss the part where other states produce great Basketball AND football. 
 

Indiana you get just 1 I guess

 

i guess that even though this state has produced elite talent in football for decades it doesn’t matter because it’s a basketball state. Just put all the eggs in one basket.

 

 

truthfully it’s all a joke and a reflection of how Indiana as a whole operates 

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10 minutes ago, DT said:

I think you have to take state athletic culture into account.

Indiana is NOT a football state.  Texas, Florida, Ohio, PA, Louisiana are football states.  Basketball culture is embedded in the DNA of our state.  That is a good thing, something to be embraced, as the Texans and Ohioans and Floridians embrace their football culture.  

Why should a basketball first state treat football the same way a football first state treats football?

Indiana layers its treasured and beloved basketball formula on top of the football tournament - and it works perfectly.

When contraction whittles football down to the targeted 280 schools, perhaps then a new format will need to be addressed.  Until then, the current model is perfect for the state, a basketball first state.  

 

So, in summary, you agree with me - the current system is wrong and if we truly were football fans we would fix it.

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4 minutes ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

Clearly it’s working “perfectly” 

 

also this idea that Indiana can’t be a football state is BS.  I guess I miss the part where other states produce great Basketball AND football. 
 

Indiana you get just 1 I guess

 

i guess that even though this state has produced elite talent in football for decades it doesn’t matter because it’s a basketball state. Just put all the eggs in one basket.

 

 

truthfully it’s all a joke and a reflection of how Indiana as a whole operates 

Unfortunately, there will never be a Hickory Huskers on the gridiron.  It just cant happen.  

12 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Are Rhode Island, Wyoming, and Alaska football states? How have they figured it out? Our neighbors to the south are a basketball state. Why haven't they been held back?

Those status are all ruled by the reality of remote geographic topography.  Travel is the overriding factor that limits their options.  Not a good comparison.  

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23 minutes ago, Lysander said:

In 50% of our 6 classes (Classes 1A-6A), there is a game being played the first round that might well have been a game that should have been played in LOS on Thanksgiving weekend per Sagarin (and I’m tired of hearing all of the bonehead b!tching about Sagarin....as if some polled Sportswriter or Coach in Angola knows ANYTHING about the relative strength of a team in Evansville or vice versa.....give me a break).

6A: Sagarin #1 Avon v. Sagarin #2  Brownsburg

3A: Sagarin #1 Chatard v. Sagarin #3 Brebeuf

2A: Sagarin #1 Lewis Cass v. Sagarin No. 2 Pioneer

Rather than football fans being able to enjoy the ability to see these games live, they will as likely as not be watching some 2-7 teams pound away at each other.....with one of them actually living to play another day.  While 50% of those 6 teams cited above Seniors will be turning in their gear having played their last game ever.  

Teams and kids that have spent years honing their skills to play at the highest levels in their class denied the chance to play in a high profile and electric  Sectional, Regional, Semi-State or even State Championship game.  

But we would rather let ping pong balls decide....because “it’s the only fair way”.  

Its flatly wrong and we all know it.

And don’t give me this crap about “Football Gods”, “Sh!t Happens”, etc., etc.

This situation exists because WE allow it to.....not some fictional Football God.  We are just too damn lazy and indifferent to do anything about it.

If we really are honest to God fans of the game why do we tolerate this?

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Lysander said:

So, in summary, you agree with me - the current system is wrong and if we truly were football fans we would fix it.

Fans have zero input on this 

Coaches and Admins were polled a few years ago

overwhelmingly came back keep all in 

Overwhelmingly came back seeding top 2 

Coaches helped adapt the current Mercy rule as Mr. Cox stated, no mercy rule no seeding.  

Maybe seeding comes down the pike sooner rather than later, HOWEVER, all in is GOING NO WHERE folks.   

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4 minutes ago, DT said:

Unfortunately, there will never be a Hickory Huskers on the gridiron.  It just cant happen.  

Those status are all ruled by the reality of remote geographic topography.  Travel is the overriding factor that limits their options.  Not a good comparison.  

Yeah, Rhode Island, the smallest state in the country is that difficult to navigate. Kentucky?

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3 minutes ago, Lysander said:

So, in summary, you agree with me - the current system is wrong and if we truly were football fans we would fix it.

I was in favor of qualification for many years, but changed my position when I came to the undeniable conclusion that outcomes would not change.  There are only a handful of schools in each class that have a real chance at hoisting the championship trophy.  Changing from the all in to the qualification will not affect that outcome in any way.  So why change?

1 minute ago, Footballking16 said:

Yeah, Rhode Island, the smallest state in the country is that difficult to navigate. Kentucky?

90% of the population of Rhode Island is centered around one large metropolitan area.  Similar to Canada.  

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1 minute ago, DT said:

I was in favor of qualification for many years, but changed my position when I came to the undeniable conclusion that outcomes would not change.  There are only a handful of schools in each class that have a real chance at hoisting the championship trophy.  Changing from the all in to the qualification will not affect that outcome in any way.  So why change?

Makes the playoffs that much more enjoyable. Games should get tougher and more competitive as the postseason progresses, not easier. It's the opposite many a times with the current format. 

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1 minute ago, Coach Nowlin said:

 

Fans have zero input on this 

Coaches and Admins were polled a few years ago

overwhelmingly came back keep all in 

Overwhelmingly came back seeding top 2 

Coaches helped adapt the current Mercy rule as Mr. Cox stated, no mercy rule no seeding.  

Maybe seeding comes down the pike sooner rather than later, HOWEVER, all in is GOING NO WHERE folks.   

I am “all in” for the all-in.  

We just need to seed.

As to “fans”, I meant the word to cover administrators,  etc. 

The problem is that these people aren’t “fans” of the game - my point.

Otherwise they would act.

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3 minutes ago, DT said:

90% of the population of Rhode Island is centered around one large metropolitan area.  Similar to Canada.  

Ok Kentucky? 

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