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Should Fall Sports Athletes Be Allowed To Play Winter Sports Before State Finals?


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What are your thoughts on *if* the IHSAA were to prohibit Fall sports athletes from practicing with their Winter sports teams until the Fall sport's state championship has been played? 

Already, many Winter sports games in mid November get rescheduled or canceled, if a team has a long tourney run, I believe both ADs have to agree or the team without its Fall sport players could be at a severe disadvantage. 

I'm particular, wrestlers also gain much needed mat and conditioning time, giving them an advantage over a wrestler who has to give an extra month to his Fall sport. 

Tangentially, we are learning more and more about adolescents overusing their bodies physically and the joint/bone/brain injuries which can be chronic. Should there not be a mandatory cool down period between seasons? How many coaches use pregame shoot around to fulfill the minimum practice quota? 

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Could use some clarification...

 

is the rule “you cannot actively participate in both” or “if you play football you have to wait until after thanksgiving to participate no matter if your team lost in sectionals or went all the way” 

 

regardless, I’m not sure how wrestling is formatted, but team sports like basketball i agree that you shouldnt play both at the same time and a cool down period would be beneficial.  With Indiana’s all in tournaments, there is not rush to get going. But with that said I’m not sure how wrestling works out especially since there is seeding.

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Do any states have this kind of rule? My guess is that the National Federation would have to weigh in as well.

Your points are not without merit but this type of rule could backfire if a lot of kids decide to choose 1 sport even though they have the ability to play 2 or 3 sports. Many small schools rely on those multi-sport studs to carry their sports programs.

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I agree they should be given a week between seasons.  Do they really have to wait until the state championships have been played even if their team lost in the first round of the playoffs?  That makes no sense to me.

Seems to me like it should be up to the school's AD but I can't fathom an AD that would allow a kid to practice with next season's team regardless of the sport.  ADs should insist on the kids only practicing with the current season's sport.  

I have no problem with lifting weights or conditioning with next season's team as long as the current season's coach allows it.

 

 

Edited by Grover
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Leave it up to the schools. Every school I have been at has allowed kids a week off. I think forcing kids to wait until the State finals are over would mean a LOT of kids would have to wait 5 weeks, some even a full month;  too much time in my opinion. 

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I think athletes need to stay put until the season is over..cross training is always nice yet trying to go from one practice to the next can cause umeccesary wear n tear. Usually athletes love what they do..heck play football today n hockey tomorrow..many dream to do so but can't..most jump right in after their season is over due to being in their nature.

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I was a 3 sport athlete and never asked for break.  I understand we live in a different world with different physical and demands on student-athletes.  (But our coaches were smart with the physical demands of the players.) 

We made deep runs in the football playoffs my Junior and Senior years, and afterwards, the basketball coaches had us football players do more mental reps and less physical work (Walk through plays, practice skill development and develop teamwork, over conditioning).  The non-football guys had only a little conditioning after the football guys showed up.  When we hit Christmas Break, the coaching staff "flipped the switch" and started hammering conditioning during those 3 hr practices.  (We did not play in a Holiday Tourney and only had 1-2 games over break.)

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18 hours ago, Coach Nowlin said:

my man @hhpatriot04 I know you are out of loop at times, but this past year we now can have open facilities, of course non mandatory for all sports outside the season. 

From a fair-playing perspective, why should a wrestler be penalized and lose 5-6 weeks of wrestling conditioning if his football team makes a deep run? We have very strict rules for when Fall sports can start practicing, but Winter and Spring are a bit looser with open gyms, conditioning classes (can they be counted as "practice?"

If the goal is fair play then shouldn't everyone be starting to practice for Sport X on the same day across the state?

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15 minutes ago, Grover said:

No.  A football coach shouldn't have to worry about a player getting hurt at wrestling practice.  One season at a time.

I think my topic is being inferred incorrectly. The idea is that no football player could play any Winter sport until at least a week after the state finals -- regardless of if they got bounced in Round 1 or Round 6.

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4 minutes ago, Grover said:

No.  A football coach shouldn't have to worry about a player getting hurt at wrestling practice.  One season at a time.

I was at a small school as an athlete (3 sport for 2 years 2 sport for 2) and at smaller schools most of my coaching career, and it is true that they tend to rely on many 2 sport athletes and in some cases 3 sport as well. The problem is just an Grover put it. If we allow a kid who is still actively playing  a sport to start practicing another they increase the risk of injury.  To me this also sends a bad message to the other athletes that follow through is not that important. I do understand some athletes are better at one sport and the one coming up may be that sport and they want to get into it as soon as possible but if you commit to a sport then finish its season first. If they get injured in the sport they are currently playing that's part of the risk but to increase the risk by having time spent not only practicing the current sport but to participate in the up coming ones activities as well increases the risk factor.  If a season ends then the kids should be allowed to move on they are most likely already in shape and should be given a short break if they feel they need one but should not sacrifice time if their season is over by waiting until that sports championships conclude.  I agree one season at a time but when its over let the athlete  move on.

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I am confused....how did this venture into the concept of a kid playing two sports at the same time? I never got that from the original post. I still don’t like the idea at all of the original post though. For smaller schools, there are key athletes for Winter sports playing a Fall sport. To make them wait would only have one effect from the small schools.....delaying the start of the entire season. The other issue that comes into play is practices.......to transition from a Fall sport to a Winter sport, an athlete needs to get 5 practices in now. That would change to whatever the number is for athletes not in a Fall sport....is it 10 practices? Another issue is balance......there are no limits at all for kids starting a Fall sport, so why do Winter and Spring sports have to wait for the State Championships to be over before they get their athletes? ESPECIALLY if it is 5 weeks, or even 7 if the 10 practice rule is in place. And game days cannot count toward that number. 
In my mind this is a solution that is looking for a problem. And if there actually is a problem of some type, this would equate to “killing a fly with a cannon” as my old professor, Ed Schilling used to say, 

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On 10/21/2019 at 6:00 PM, hhpatriot04 said:

What are your thoughts on the IHSAA prohibiting Fall sports athletes from practicing with their Winter sports teams until the Fall sport's state championship has been played? 

Already, many Winter sports games in mid November get rescheduled or canceled, if a team has a long tourney run, I believe both ADs have to agree or the team without its Fall sport players could be at a severe disadvantage. 

I'm particular, wrestlers also gain much needed mat and conditioning time, giving them an advantage over a wrestler who has to give an extra month to his Fall sport. 

Tangentially, we are learning more and more about adolescents overusing their bodies physically and the joint/bone/brain injuries which can be chronic. Should there not be a mandatory cool down period between seasons? How many coaches use pregame shoot around to fulfill the minimum practice quota? 

You used football and wrestling in your post so I will also. From the first practice to the state championship in football is 17 weeks. If the first practice for wrestling was not until after the football state championship wrestling would only have 12 weeks. If you put in the rule you wrote about you would need to even the seasons out. So are you ready to have the football state championship a few weeks sooner?

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13 hours ago, sr1 said:

You used football and wrestling in your post so I will also. From the first practice to the state championship in football is 17 weeks. If the first practice for wrestling was not until after the football state championship wrestling would only have 12 weeks. If you put in the rule you wrote about you would need to even the seasons out. So are you ready to have the football state championship a few weeks sooner?

You're ignoring how many minutes of mat time a wrestler puts in. Let's say a varsity wrestler goes 30-15 at an average of 4 minutes per match. That's 135 minutes of wrestling time. If you weight intensity that has to be close to a football player going 15 games at 4 quarters both ways. 

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1 hour ago, hhpatriot04 said:

You're ignoring how many minutes of mat time a wrestler puts in. Let's say a varsity wrestler goes 30-15 at an average of 4 minutes per match. That's 135 minutes of wrestling time. If you weight intensity that has to be close to a football player going 15 games at 4 quarters both ways. 

I am very sure that the IHSAA is not going to look at that at all. 

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On 10/21/2019 at 6:00 PM, hhpatriot04 said:

What are your thoughts on the IHSAA prohibiting Fall sports athletes from practicing with their Winter sports teams until the Fall sport's state championship has been played? 

Already, many Winter sports games in mid November get rescheduled or canceled, if a team has a long tourney run, I believe both ADs have to agree or the team without its Fall sport players could be at a severe disadvantage. 

I'm particular, wrestlers also gain much needed mat and conditioning time, giving them an advantage over a wrestler who has to give an extra month to his Fall sport. 

Tangentially, we are learning more and more about adolescents overusing their bodies physically and the joint/bone/brain injuries which can be chronic. Should there not be a mandatory cool down period between seasons? How many coaches use pregame shoot around to fulfill the minimum practice quota? 

Including the original post. I am ok with a change in the time between one sport and another. I just think that waiting until the State finals have been played is going too far. I get that you feel everyone in the Winter would start at the exact same time, BUT there are other advantages gained, so you trade one set of advantages for another. Maybe a two week break from the end of your Fall sports season? 
as far as overuse injuries, I would disagree to an extent. MOST of the injuries we are seeing are a result of repeated use in one sport athletes, ie pitchers with arm injuries, bball players with knee and ankle injuries from the required movements happening 12 months a year. In fact, even the NBA has studied the types of injuries, numbers and severity. The bball only injuries far outnumbered those of the multi sport athletes, and they were far more severe. 
As far as the pregame shoot around, the IHSAA has done a better job of clarifying the language. Instead of the word “practices”, the rules say “practice days”. The rules are also very clear that the scrimmage day and any game day will NOT count toward a practice day. 

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On 10/24/2019 at 3:37 PM, Booboo Bear said:

Where in the IHSAA By-Laws are you finding this?

If you are asking about the first post it is not in the By-Laws. It is not the rule now. He is asking what we think of making it a rule.

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On 10/21/2019 at 3:00 PM, hhpatriot04 said:

What are your thoughts on *if* the IHSAA were to prohibit Fall sports athletes from practicing with their Winter sports teams until the Fall sport's state championship has been played? 

Already, many Winter sports games in mid November get rescheduled or canceled, if a team has a long tourney run, I believe both ADs have to agree or the team without its Fall sport players could be at a severe disadvantage. 

I'm particular, wrestlers also gain much needed mat and conditioning time, giving them an advantage over a wrestler who has to give an extra month to his Fall sport. 

Tangentially, we are learning more and more about adolescents overusing their bodies physically and the joint/bone/brain injuries which can be chronic. Should there not be a mandatory cool down period between seasons? How many coaches use pregame shoot around to fulfill the minimum practice quota? 

I understand what you are saying.  I was a 3 sport athlete.  Football, wrestling, and track.  I like the idea of no winter sports practices until all fall sports are completed.  It would help even the prep time for all schools. 

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