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Big Ten Expansion


Guest DT

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3 minutes ago, Gipper said:

Flawed, very flawed.  The idea of separating Michigan and Ohio State is crazy at best.  The league is linear, not to bottom anyway.

Michigan and Ohio State MUST be separated.  North - South is the only way to keep them apart.  

This setup has excellent balance, and divides the 4 historic programs evenly (Michigan and Nebraska in the North)  (OSU and PSU in the south)

UM and OSU will stay play every year as guaranteed rival crossovers, and also have a chance to meet in the conf championship game.  The only thing better than Michigan - Ohio State is Michigan - Ohio State twice a year.  

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38 minutes ago, itiswhatitis said:

I see.  So keep the cupcake instead of playing for a national title?  Not a very good tradeoff is it?  Navy will never beat Notre Dame in this century or the next.  If it's some sort of gentlemen's agreement from the early 1900's, let's forget the past and move forward.  Until Notre Dame joins a conference for ALL sports including football, I see them struggling to get in the football playoffs.  And as a fan of football, I think that would be shame.  But you cant beat city hall.  If city hall says , "we aren't joining a conference", then I guess that is what you have to live with.

It’s not a “gentlemens’ agreement.” It’s a matter of honor. Believe it or not, at Notre Dame some things are even more important than national championships. Here’s the story:

In World War II, enrollment had declined to the point where the University was no longer financially viable. Notre Dame was on the brink of closing the doors for good. But the Navy came calling and rented dormitory space in which to house it’s V-12 trainees. The rent the Navy paid allowed Notre Dame to remain solvent, and when the war ended, and enrollment went back up, the University went on to become a world renowned institution — all made possible by the largesse of the Navy. Notre Dame considers that it owes an honor debt to Navy which can never be repaid. Their game each year is just an installment payment on that debt.  If you ever get a chance to go to a Notre Dame - Navy game, you’ll understand there is a special relationship there that goes far beyond a football game.

As I said, at Notre Dame, some things are more important than national championships. Honor is one of them. I hope it’s always that way. It’s just one of the things that makes it such a special place.

 

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3 minutes ago, Bobref said:

It’s not a “gentlemens’ agreement.” It’s a matter of honor. Believe it or not, at Notre Dame some things are even more important than national championships. Here’s the story:

In World War II, enrollment had declined to the point where the University was no longer financially viable. Notre Dame was on the brink of closing the doors for good. But the Navy came calling and rented dormitory space in which to house it’s V-12 trainees. The rent the Navy paid allowed Notre Dame to remain solvent, and when the war ended, and enrollment went back up, the University went on to become a world renowned institution — all made possible by the largesse of the Navy. Notre Dame considers that it owes an honor debt to Navy which can never be repaid. Their game each year is just an installment payment on that debt.  If you ever get a chance to go to a Notre Dame - Navy game, you’ll understand there is a special relationship there that goes far beyond a football game.

As I said, at Notre Dame, some things are more important than national championships. Honor is one of them. I hope it’s always that way. It’s just one of the things that makes it such a special place.

 

Kind of like how the French will never be able to repay the United States for saving them from Nazi armageddon. 

43 minutes ago, Gipper said:

Please stop the lunacy.  There is no conceivable reason to separate these two, competitive balance, or whatever your crazy idea is be damned.

Would someone please explain to The Gipster how cross divisional conference play works?  Sheesh!

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1 minute ago, DT said:

Kind of like how the French will never be able to repay the United States for saving them from Nazi armageddon. 

“Notre Dame” is French, of course. The full name is “University of Notre Dame du Lac.” But the similarity ends there. 😉

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19 minutes ago, Bobref said:

It’s not a “gentlemens’ agreement.” It’s a matter of honor. Believe it or not, at Notre Dame some things are even more important than national championships. Here’s the story:

In World War II, enrollment had declined to the point where the University was no longer financially viable. Notre Dame was on the brink of closing the doors for good. But the Navy came calling and rented dormitory space in which to house it’s V-12 trainees. The rent the Navy paid allowed Notre Dame to remain solvent, and when the war ended, and enrollment went back up, the University went on to become a world renowned institution — all made possible by the largesse of the Navy. Notre Dame considers that it owes an honor debt to Navy which can never be repaid. Their game each year is just an installment payment on that debt.  If you ever get a chance to go to a Notre Dame - Navy game, you’ll understand there is a special relationship there that goes far beyond a football game.

As I said, at Notre Dame, some things are more important than national championships. Honor is one of them. I hope it’s always that way. It’s just one of the things that makes it such a special place.

 

I never knew that.  Thanks for providing something informative and worthwhile.  

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50 minutes ago, Bobref said:

It’s not a “gentlemens’ agreement.” It’s a matter of honor. Believe it or not, at Notre Dame some things are even more important than national championships. Here’s the story:

In World War II, enrollment had declined to the point where the University was no longer financially viable. Notre Dame was on the brink of closing the doors for good. But the Navy came calling and rented dormitory space in which to house it’s V-12 trainees. The rent the Navy paid allowed Notre Dame to remain solvent, and when the war ended, and enrollment went back up, the University went on to become a world renowned institution — all made possible by the largesse of the Navy. Notre Dame considers that it owes an honor debt to Navy which can never be repaid. Their game each year is just an installment payment on that debt.  If you ever get a chance to go to a Notre Dame - Navy game, you’ll understand there is a special relationship there that goes far beyond a football game.

As I said, at Notre Dame, some things are more important than national championships. Honor is one of them. I hope it’s always that way. It’s just one of the things that makes it such a special place.

 

Wait!   Does this mean there are secret tunnels under Notre Dame?  Wabash college also hosted V12 trainees in ww2 and because of it there are some secret tunnels and sorts between some of the buildings. Not many but wabash is super small 

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5 hours ago, itiswhatitis said:

But if we're talking "super" conferences and football, I'd add Oklahoma and Texas.  Kansas is a football doormat and K State only shows up every few years.  The B1G added Rutgers and Maryland for the audience and some recruiting.  They aren't Midwest and neither is Penn State for that matter.  Adding Texas and Oklahoma would do wonders for the recruiting not to mention strengthening the conference.  In a super conference, there will usually be a couple who aren't going to fit the mold of what may be considered a geographic "culture".  Notre Dame was offered to join and refused for whatever reasons.  Missouri might be a consideration to fit the "Midwest" flavor, but they are up and down.  And I disagree the B1G doesn't need another historical power.  If it's going to be 4 super conferences, then YES they need another one (or two) power programs.  So are we just supposed to sit back and let the SEC continue to win everything in football?  That wouldn't be too smart would it?   If I have the chance to add a Texas or an Oklahoma, I'm in.  Why let them walk away to one of the other conferences and lose out?  Kansas for basketball?  Let them go to the ACC.  Clemson football could use another cupcake on their schedule.

Notre Dame is a national brand. They've already made their mark on the midwest, so no need to join a midwest conference. Stanford and USC gives them exposure to the west. The ACC gives them exposure to the east. Notre Dame will NEVER affiliate itself with the Big Ten in football. 

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26 minutes ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

Wait!   Does this mean there are secret tunnels under Notre Dame?  Wabash college also hosted V12 trainees in ww2 and because of it there are some secret tunnels and sorts between some of the buildings. Not many but wabash is super small 

I could tell you ... but then I’d have to kill you. 😅

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9 hours ago, Bobref said:

It’s not a “gentlemens’ agreement.” It’s a matter of honor. Believe it or not, at Notre Dame some things are even more important than national championships. Here’s the story:

In World War II, enrollment had declined to the point where the University was no longer financially viable. Notre Dame was on the brink of closing the doors for good. But the Navy came calling and rented dormitory space in which to house it’s V-12 trainees. The rent the Navy paid allowed Notre Dame to remain solvent, and when the war ended, and enrollment went back up, the University went on to become a world renowned institution — all made possible by the largesse of the Navy. Notre Dame considers that it owes an honor debt to Navy which can never be repaid. Their game each year is just an installment payment on that debt.  If you ever get a chance to go to a Notre Dame - Navy game, you’ll understand there is a special relationship there that goes far beyond a football game.

As I said, at Notre Dame, some things are more important than national championships. Honor is one of them. I hope it’s always that way. It’s just one of the things that makes it such a special place.

 

Thank you for the explanation, Bobref.  Great story!  After 20 years in the Navy I totally understand what honor is all about and can salute the grand dame for keeping the honor all these years.  Never knew that story  about Notre Dame.  Thanks for sharing.  The Navy is all about:  honor, courage, and commitment.  Notice that honor, is the very first thing.  But Navy STILL will never beat the Irish.  LOL

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38 minutes ago, itiswhatitis said:

Thank you for the explanation, Bobref.  Great story!  After 20 years in the Navy I totally understand what honor is all about and can salute the grand dame for keeping the honor all these years.  Never knew that story  about Notre Dame.  Thanks for sharing.  The Navy is all about:  honor, courage, and commitment.  Notice that honor, is the very first thing.  But Navy STILL will never beat the Irish.  LOL

Thank you for your service.

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19 minutes ago, Gipper said:

Thank you for your service.

No thanks necessary, my friend.  It was my choice, and I'd do it all over again if I could.  I come from a Navy family.  My wife also served, my daughter is currently on active duty (16 years of service) and my youngest son served also.  Oh and my son-in-law is also on active duty (18 years of service).  Never knew the Navy had close ties to Notre Dame until this morning.  You learn something new every day, right?

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15 hours ago, Bobref said:

I’m on record as advocating ND for full membership in the ACC, but I’d be content to see them in the B1G. I just want them in a Power 5 conference so, when the time comes, they can have a conference championship game on their resume for playoff qualifying purposes. The problem is that the B1G plays 9 conference games (plus the conference championship game). If they expand to 16, they’re certainly not going to play fewer. That leaves 3 non-conference games which, for the Irish, means they only get 1 “discretionary” game, since they will always play Navy and USC. 

Because of their academic restrictions, ND needs to have a truly national recruiting base. Historically, they have filled this need by playing games around the country, to show the flag on a national basis. So, unless the B1G eliminates “crossover” games between East and West, it would be very difficult.
 

 

Doesn't ND ALWAYS (if not ALWAYS, would you happen to know when this began) end their season in California (either USC or Stanford)?

Wonder if ND joined the BT, if they could continue to do this.....

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4 minutes ago, DannEllenwood said:

Doesn't ND ALWAYS (if not ALWAYS, would you happen to know when this began) end their season in California (either USC or Stanford)?

Wonder if ND joined the BT, if they could continue to do this.....

They've already played USC 2 weeks ago (10/12) and won 30 - 27.  I thought they usually played USC at the end of the year also.  Must have had a schedule change this year  Maybe Bobref will know.

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26 minutes ago, itiswhatitis said:

They've already played USC 2 weeks ago (10/12) and won 30 - 27.  I thought they usually played USC at the end of the year also.  Must have had a schedule change this year  Maybe Bobref will know.

When they play at ND, it’s always in October. When they play at USC, it’s in November. The whiny, wimpy Trojans would never come to the Midwest in November.

32 minutes ago, itiswhatitis said:

Bobref - I retract my statement about playing the "cupcake".  :classic_wink:

No harm done.

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15 minutes ago, Bobref said:

When they play at ND, it’s always in October. When they play at USC, it’s in November. The whiny, wimpy Trojans would never come to the Midwest in November.

No harm done.

My niece from Santa Clarita attends the University of Evansville, but that's a whole other climate altogether: Cfa down there as opposed to Dfa up north--there, you learned something today...

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51 minutes ago, itiswhatitis said:

They've already played USC 2 weeks ago (10/12) and won 30 - 27.  I thought they usually played USC at the end of the year also.  Must have had a schedule change this year  Maybe Bobref will know.

Sorry.  I was not clear.

I know the USC game was just played.  I was asking Bob if ND has always played a California team their last game of the year and if so would it be possible that ND would be able too keep this format (always ending their regular season....NOT INCLUDING THE BT CHAMPIONSHIP GAME should they enter the BT and make it to that game).

I know it rotates by year.  This year USC was @ ND, so ND will finish their regular season @ Stanford.....and next year, Stanford should be at ND (around the middle of the year) and ND will finish their regular season @ USC.

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A lot of options.  Add Notre Dame/no way ND will accept, Texas, Missouri, Carolina, Louisville, Georgia Tech (mind as well keep thing new), and many other ones.  I liked it being a Midwest-only league, but trends these days basically prohibit that.  We'll get somebody good.

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