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Sagarin Ratings


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35 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Thank you. That’s great, but I’d like to go back further, if there’s a way to do that.

Maybe I am wrong but I thought TW had gone way back (somehow) in the Sags a few years ago for one reason or another.  I haven’t seen any trace of him here recently but I’m guessing some here could reach out to him.  

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57 minutes ago, Bobref said:

I wonder if any of the young whippersnappers on here have the faintest idea what you’re talking about. 😂🤣😀

No really, most of Sagarins ratings are archived using The WaybackMachine... For previous, I'd contact John Harrell or arrange a visit to the Bloomington Herald-Times archives. 

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1 minute ago, hhpatriot04 said:

No really, most of Sagarins ratings are archived using The WaybackMachine... For previous, I'd contact John Harrell or arrange a visit to the Bloomington Herald-Times archives. 

You know, I’m going to be in Bloomington for a couple of days later this month. That’s a heck of an idea. I’d love to meet The Man himself.

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2 hours ago, Bobref said:

You know, I’m going to be in Bloomington for a couple of days later this month. That’s a heck of an idea. I’d love to meet The Man himself.

I imagine John having this basement bunker with 15 screens following 15 Twitter accounts and 15 more screens with every broadcast he can find. Then still frantically Google searching for a score of a game that's not being reported.

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5 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Sherman and Mr.Peabody.

You’re right.....I forgot that Sherman and Mr. Peabody were on Rocky and Bullwinkle and Friends but were a separate cartoon.

Memory is the second thing to go........

Edited by Lysander
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1 hour ago, BDGiant93 said:

I imagine John having this basement bunker with 15 screens following 15 Twitter accounts and 15 more screens with every broadcast he can find. Then still frantically Google searching for a score of a game that's not being reported.

There was a good article about how he does his operations last year (https://www.courierpress.com/story/sports/high-school/2018/06/22/john-harrell-still-enjoys-running-site-high-school-sports-junkies/725863002/). One computer, one man... Prior to Twitter, a lot of sports editors and journalists across the state would send their scores. I think his son is now involved too.

He occassionally still visits the Herald-Times to do some computer programming for the sports department (even in the early 1990s, he was automating much of the Agate (Scoreboard) Page and box scores layout with some (relatively) simple find and replace features. Similiar to HTML, the software that formats newspapers is a "markup" computer programming language. The H-T, one of my former employers, still publishes complete scores for high school and college basketball up to the last minutes before going to press (11 p.m. Eastern time). I picked up the IndyStar and half of the scores were marked as "late"... The H-T still does a good job of publishing all local and area box scores for all HS sports... Something other papers, like the IndyStar, are no longer doing.

Jeff Sagarin and John Harrell should have scholarships named after them by the IHSAA, in my opinion. 

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6 hours ago, hhpatriot04 said:

There was a good article about how he does his operations last year (https://www.courierpress.com/story/sports/high-school/2018/06/22/john-harrell-still-enjoys-running-site-high-school-sports-junkies/725863002/). One computer, one man... Prior to Twitter, a lot of sports editors and journalists across the state would send their scores. I think his son is now involved too.

He occassionally still visits the Herald-Times to do some computer programming for the sports department (even in the early 1990s, he was automating much of the Agate (Scoreboard) Page and box scores layout with some (relatively) simple find and replace features. Similiar to HTML, the software that formats newspapers is a "markup" computer programming language. The H-T, one of my former employers, still publishes complete scores for high school and college basketball up to the last minutes before going to press (11 p.m. Eastern time). I picked up the IndyStar and half of the scores were marked as "late"... The H-T still does a good job of publishing all local and area box scores for all HS sports... Something other papers, like the IndyStar, are no longer doing.

Jeff Sagarin and John Harrell should have scholarships named after them by the IHSAA, in my opinion. 

My only quarrel with John is that he doesn't recognize forfeits. If he's the official arbiter of history and stats, I think that's a weakness. I've had debates with him on this. He believes that it's what happened on the field/floor. In the rare case of the double forfeit...he just says the game never happened. 

His work though...underappreciated and revolutionary. I have no idea how we operated before (even though we did).

Edited by BDGiant93
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  • 3 years later...
On 11/2/2019 at 7:32 PM, BDGiant93 said:

My only quarrel with John is that he doesn't recognize forfeits. If he's the official arbiter of history and stats, I think that's a weakness. I've had debates with him on this. He believes that it's what happened on the field/floor. In the rare case of the double forfeit...he just says the game never happened. 

His work though...underappreciated and revolutionary. I have no idea how we operated before (even though we did).

I meant to comment this a while ago, but here it goes. I dealt with this when I was doing some sort of high school team sports calculations and winning percentage and win rate was needed. For the life of me, I can't recall the sport, but it must have been one with ties... maybe Team Swimming/Wrestling/Track. 

Basically, there are two ways to count ties -- either as half a win, or you just omit it (so basically as a loss, "not a win")

From Wiki (I did look hard for this): Ties have counted as a half-win and half-loss in NFL standings since 1972; before that, ties were not counted in the standings at all.

P.S. I hope all is well on the West Side after the events on Friday. It was terrifying to watch the unfiltered panic and fear.

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11 hours ago, hhpatriot04 said:

P.S. I hope all is well on the West Side after the events on Friday. It was terrifying to watch the unfiltered panic and fear.

I think everyone is a little skittish after what happened a few years back outside the stadium gates. It was pretty clear from the sound, at least to me, that they were not gunshots, but the panic is real...and in this day and age...it probably should be. No one knows at any moment what's going to happen when it comes to violence these days. Thankfully, this was a false alarm. I've also heard/seen people casting doubts on that assessment, and I heard, firsthand, on the walkie talkiies the full assessment. It was very much fireworks.

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29 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

I think everyone is a little skittish after what happened a few years back outside the stadium gates. It was pretty clear from the sound, at least to me, that they were not gunshots, but the panic is real...and in this day and age...it probably should be. No one knows at any moment what's going to happen when it comes to violence these days. Thankfully, this was a false alarm. I've also heard/seen people casting doubts on that assessment, and I heard, firsthand, on the walkie talkiies the full assessment. It was very much fireworks.

If anything, perhaps BD and other places can look at a way to quickly open emergency exits. The funneling effect was insane.

With the emergence of inexpensive Wifi locking options, a possibility would be for a designated person to have access to such a function through an app.

Are disturbing the peace or incitement charges appropriate? 

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On 10/29/2019 at 12:51 PM, Bobref said:

Jeff Sagarin’s algorithmic ratings system gets talked about a lot on the GID. Does anyone know if/where we can retrieve archived Sagarin ratings from previous years?

https://predictor.gridirondigest.net/SagarinRatings/Archives/

Here is back to 1999. If you find them farther back than this, please let me know. I'll gladly digitize them. 

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1 hour ago, temptation said:

So Sagarin settles the debate huh?

2017 Ben Davis over 2018 Warren Central.

You can't directly compare year to year. The ratings aren't normalized.

I'm going to make something to compare but I need to run the math with a stats person.

I think to compare you have to do something like this: 

TeamRating1 / Year1AverageRatingofAllTeams

minus (-)

TeamRating2 / Year2AverageRatingofAllTeams

 

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