George Orwell 2 Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 4 hours ago, BendNotBreak said: Being the 4th gen of one of the 1st Itallian immigrant's to Evansville ...in the mid 1800s, I'm sure I have multitudes of relatives still there today. I found a good article on ....History of Italians in Evansville... that confirmed my genealogy to that locale. However, your description dose not fit with my family history...tho it may for others... My GGF left his 2 bros in Evansville ....to a certain town that is a member of the EIAC. My family history tells me that EDU was highly valued among these immigrant families. Many great sacrifices were made to ensure they got one. Perhaps your description is more applicable to the larger cities of the day ...such as New York, Chicago than Indy or Evansville..... On the flip side...I've traced my father's side back way before the Revolution... it has given me an interesting perspective on things..... thanks for such a well thout out and interesting read..... I had been struggling to understand what you were referring to in your post until I re-read my post from 4 years ago. I used the phrase "uneducated immigrant kids." That was a really poor choice of words on my part. I didn't mean to imply that they were literally uneducated or that education wasn't important. What I meant to communicate is that the kids of those days in those neighborhoods were unsophisticated, rough and tumble type kids. They were German, Irish, Italian, Slavic, Hungarian, and other eastern Europeans and grew up in neighborhoods like Haughville, Fountain Square, Little Flower, and Fletcher Place. I can remember my grandfather telling the story of the neighborhood football team playing against the inmates at Pendleton. I always thought that was pretty bada$$ . . . crazy . . . but bada$$. Most of the good athletes in those neighborhoods ended up at Cathedral which has had a great football tradition since like the 20's or something like that. As I said in my earlier post, I'm sure that there are many stories like that around the state, but, that is the one I am familiar with. I think my post made it clear that there isn't one thing that makes the great programs successful. It isn't the religion, socio-economic status, ethnicity, geography, or any other one thing. It is a really complex mix of many factors. Of course, P/P's have inherent advantages over public schools. I have been clear on that from the beginning. But, the "problem," to the extent there is one, has to do with a few specific programs that out perform their enrollment, rather than a certain type of school. The uber-successful programs are mostly P/P, but not exclusively. There are some publics sprinkled in there as well. That is why I think that the success factor has been fairly successful at addressing the "problem." It isn't perfect. I would like to see four year cycles instead of two and fewer points to stay up in the higher class, but, it seems to have done its job. It certainly accomplished the goal of making GID a pretty dull place . . . UNTIL NOW. BRING IT ON PUBLICS! [jk] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BendNotBreak Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 I read it as a stereotype ..... all Itallian immigrant's kids...were poor...tuff...uneducated... blue collar kids... that worked for the Genove Olive Oil Co..... LoL. Not true....Thanks for clarifying that..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysander Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, George Orwell 2 said: I had been struggling to understand what you were referring to in your post until I re-read my post from 4 years ago. I used the phrase "uneducated immigrant kids." That was a really poor choice of words on my part. I didn't mean to imply that they were literally uneducated or that education wasn't important. What I meant to communicate is that the kids of those days in those neighborhoods were unsophisticated, rough and tumble type kids. They were German, Irish, Italian, Slavic, Hungarian, and other eastern Europeans and grew up in neighborhoods like Haughville, Fountain Square, Little Flower, and Fletcher Place. I can remember my grandfather telling the story of the neighborhood football team playing against the inmates at Pendleton. I always thought that was pretty bada$$ . . . crazy . . . but bada$$. Most of the good athletes in those neighborhoods ended up at Cathedral which has had a great football tradition since like the 20's or something like that. As I said in my earlier post, I'm sure that there are many stories like that around the state, but, that is the one I am familiar with. I think my post made it clear that there isn't one thing that makes the great programs successful. It isn't the religion, socio-economic status, ethnicity, geography, or any other one thing. It is a really complex mix of many factors. Of course, P/P's have inherent advantages over public schools. I have been clear on that from the beginning. But, the "problem," to the extent there is one, has to do with a few specific programs that out perform their enrollment, rather than a certain type of school. The uber-successful programs are mostly P/P, but not exclusively. There are some publics sprinkled in there as well. That is why I think that the success factor has been fairly successful at addressing the "problem." It isn't perfect. I would like to see four year cycles instead of two and fewer points to stay up in the higher class, but, it seems to have done its job. It certainly accomplished the goal of making GID a pretty dull place . . . UNTIL NOW. BRING IT ON PUBLICS! [jk] Right now, if I am reading the correct document from the IHSAA it currently only takes 2 points in 2 years to stay up these days. If that is correct, then a single Regional or 2 Sectional Championships over the 2 year period will keep you up a class. Someone more in the know might want to confirm that. Edited November 14, 2019 by Lysander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimeqb Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 12 minutes ago, Lysander said: Right now, if I am reading the correct document from the IHSAA it currently only takes 2 points in 2 years to stay up these days. If that is correct, then a single Regional or 2 Sectional Championships over the 2 year period will keep you up a class. Someone more in the know might want to confirm that. That is my understanding as well. If true, then a win by Memorial on Friday means their freshmen class will play their entire HS career in 4A - decided for them before they even play a varsity down. And 8th graders will be seniors before they have a chance to reclassify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screagle Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 8 minutes ago, oldtimeqb said: That is my understanding as well. If true, then a win by Memorial on Friday means their freshmen class will play their entire HS career in 4A - decided for them before they even play a varsity down. And 8th graders will be seniors before they have a chance to reclassify. Absolutely crazy if that’s the case. Some of the players that attributed to EM success factor bump will be close to finishing up their college football careers before EM is reclassified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysander Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Just now, oldtimeqb said: That is my understanding as well. If true, then a win by Memorial on Friday means their freshmen class will play their entire HS career in 4A - decided for them before they even play a varsity down. And 8th graders will be seniors before they have a chance to reclassify. Yeah.....that’s the troubling part. The kids that follow pay for the success of those before them. I think the 2 points were the IHSAA’s “response” to the 4 years proposed by the IFCA. Less points needed but only 2 years. But even 2 years can be problematic. I used to kind of debate Coach G (good guy) who effectively put forth the IFCA program on this and my position was that the intent of the Success Factor was to keep the peace but in doing so it was actually (and quite intentionally) targeted at a handful of P&Ps. My arguments was just to move ALL P&Ps up a class and be done with it. Forget multipliers. That said, I’d be the first to admit that I just wanted to see Chatard play in 4A. For all that, it seems to be working but the law of unintended consequences (at a variety of levels) has clearly resulted. That said, some teams see “playing up” as a point of pride and I think that’s probably a good thing as regards improving quality but it still actually hurts those schools that just happen to have that 1 or 2 freakishly great classes and then the school reverts to form. No great solutions....just compromises.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysander Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 7 minutes ago, Screagle said: Absolutely crazy if that’s the case. Some of the players that attributed to EM success factor bump will be close to finishing up their college football careers before EM is reclassified. I think that’s the case. Lets be honest. More than a few of us here have talked about how 4A was weaker at the top than 3A was at the top the last few years. You might not have been one but I know some were from Memorial. I certainly said it (and still believe it). There are a variety of reasons for that (I believe) having, in part, to do with (a) a run of some exceptionally good teams in 3A; (b) the move into 5A of certain perennial 4A powers and new powers (Columbus East, Cathedral, New Pal, Dwenger..) and (c) some temporary(?) declines in certain teams that had some fairly long runs as exceptionally great teams (ex. Reitz, Roncalli).. All of those factors coming together resulted (in my opinion) in, at least, the top 2-3 teams in 3A being better than the top teams in 4A. It might well only be a temporary thing. Unfortunately, only Memorial actually clawed their way out of 3A and has to prove the premise. Admittedly, it may have only been a truth those 2-3 years. Still, I wish like Hell Chatard had made it stick originally...or could trade places with you guys as far as being in 4A. At that time, it required 4 points which should have been doable except for New Pal and Columbus East barring the way as they notched themselves up to higher levels. Add that a slightly down Chatard team was upset in Sectional (blown out) by a Roncalli team they had beaten earlier that year. Water under the bridge.... But yes, my understanding is that if you win Friday, you have 3 more years in 4A. In a perfect world (if you win Friday), I hope you have some 3A company in a couple of years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 (edited) Not sure how the pay is now, but when I interviewed in FWSB Diocese it was way behind the central and southern part of the state. I was well prepared to work outside of school hours. Unfortunately, my wife left me, which means that I'm unworthy to teach in a Catholic school because I haven't appealed to Rome (I think it's more of a local appeal now). Other wealthy parishioners leave their wives often, remarry, make appeals and still take communion, but who am I to judge? 🙂 Edited November 14, 2019 by Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.