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I have noticed that several states have started to use replay for questionable calls in state finals.    Does anyone know if the IHSAA is considering this?

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12 minutes ago, HoosierFB_JG said:

I wonder if they use end zone cameras

From what I picked up watching the games, the replay official is on site and relays the call down to the officiating crew.    The crew does not view the replay.

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14 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said:

@Bobref what say you? Replay for the state finals?

Not this year. I’d imagine there will be some discussion about this in the offseason, as we’ll have information from the several states that have experimented this year.

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Why play the state finals under different rules than everything else?  Do we not care about the teams that suffer from bad/missed calls in a regional or semistate loss? 

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4 minutes ago, XStar said:

Why play the state finals under different rules than everything else?  Do we not care about the teams that suffer from bad/missed calls in a regional or semistate loss? 

The answers you seek are available on North Meridian Street. 

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4 minutes ago, XStar said:

Why play the state finals under different rules than everything else?  Do we not care about the teams that suffer from bad/missed calls in a regional or semistate loss? 

I agree that they should be played the same as all the other games.  Are we on a pathway to teams being able to challenge a call based on their film and using Hudl Sideline on an iPad to show the refs?  Is this fair to teams that don't have/can't afford Hudl Sideline?  There is a lot more than just these points to be discussed.  Could have a HUGE impact on the game if it happens.

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1 hour ago, XStar said:

Why play the state finals under different rules than everything else?  Do we not care about the teams that suffer from bad/missed calls in a regional or semistate loss? 

I think there’s a different question you should be asking. Why shouldn’t we be doing everything we can to make sure we get it right? There is technology and resources available at the state finals that we don’t have at other levels.

While we’re at it, I firmly believe we should be using 7 man officiating crews in the upper levels of the playoffs. 

Talk amongst yourselves.

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If we had review capabilities last year, the 2A state finals game may have had a different outcome.  It is what it is.  If you can review and get it right, why not do it??

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29 minutes ago, Bobref said:

I think there’s a different question you should be asking. Why shouldn’t we be doing everything we can to make sure we get it right? There is technology and resources available at the state finals that we don’t have at other levels.

While we’re at it, I firmly believe we should be using 7 man officiating crews in the upper levels of the playoffs. 

Talk amongst yourselves.

In basketball, there is some pushback against three officials because some believe officials are less likely to blow the whistle because so much of their areas of coverage cross. Not sure if you have heard the same argument for football. However, I find it a bit crazy that in the day of the forward pass we expect a side judge to cover so much. 

Does the umpire in HS now have the option of lining up in the offensive backfield? What are your thoughts on that position vs the traditional way of being near the LBs? 

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1 minute ago, hhpatriot04 said:

In basketball, there is some pushback against three officials because some believe officials are less likely to blow the whistle because so much of their areas of coverage cross. Not sure if you have heard the same argument for football. However, I find it a bit crazy that in the day of the forward pass we expect a side judge to cover so much. 

Does the umpire in HS now have the option of lining up in the offensive backfield? What are your thoughts on that position vs the traditional way of being near the LBs? 

I have no experience with that variation of positioning, so I am reluctant to offer an opinion. Don’t look so shocked. 😂🤣 Seriously, I have also heard the opposite argument, back when the push for 3 officials in basketball started: more officials will call more fouls. From what I understand, it hasn’t worked out that way at all. 

For me, the bottom line is whether a change improves the chances that we’ll get more calls right. When I started working varsity football, we used 4 officials. When we moved to 5, the officiating got better. With the increased emphasis on the passing game and spreading the field, 5 officials simply aren’t enough anymore. 6 would be better, although there are still issues with 6 man mechanics. But for now, we simply don’t have enough officials to go to 6 on Friday nights, much less 7. And, of course, there would be pushback from schools who would have to spend more $$ on officials. But going to 7 at, say, the Regional level and beyond is certainly doable, and is something the IHSAA should strongly consider. And there is plenty of precedent for that. 

21 minutes ago, captainobvious said:

If we had review capabilities last year, the 2A state finals game may have had a different outcome.  It is what it is.  If you can review and get it right, why not do it??

I know what you’re talking about and I wholeheartedly agree that the particular call you’re talking about would most likely not have been missed if we had both short wings and deep wings. As far as changing the outcome of that game ... I strongly doubt it.

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1 hour ago, Bobref said:

I have no experience with that variation of positioning, so I am reluctant to offer an opinion. Don’t look so shocked. 😂🤣 Seriously, I have also heard the opposite argument, back when the push for 3 officials in basketball started: more officials will call more fouls. From what I understand, it hasn’t worked out that way at all. 

For me, the bottom line is whether a change improves the chances that we’ll get more calls right. When I started working varsity football, we used 4 officials. When we moved to 5, the officiating got better. With the increased emphasis on the passing game and spreading the field, 5 officials simply aren’t enough anymore. 6 would be better, although there are still issues with 6 man mechanics. But for now, we simply don’t have enough officials to go to 6 on Friday nights, much less 7. And, of course, there would be pushback from schools who would have to spend more $$ on officials. But going to 7 at, say, the Regional level and beyond is certainly doable, and is something the IHSAA should strongly consider. And there is plenty of precedent for that. 

I know what you’re talking about and I wholeheartedly agree that the particular call you’re talking about would most likely not have been missed if we had both short wings and deep wings. As far as changing the outcome of that game ... I strongly doubt it.

That was a 14 point swing.  Just saying.

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2 hours ago, captainobvious said:

That was a 14 point swing.  Just saying.

I was there. I understand what you’re saying. I saw that play. And I saw the rest of the game, too. Just my opinion.

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On 11/22/2019 at 3:35 PM, captainobvious said:

That was a 14 point swing.  Just saying.

I haven't seen a video replay system yet which would've awarded Eastbrook a touchdown for that.  Just saying.  

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They can't seem to get replay consistently right in college or the NFL. Do we really think this could be effectively implemented at the high school level?  And if its tried the IHSAA just might need 3 days for the finals.

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On 11/22/2019 at 11:15 AM, XStar said:

Why play the state finals under different rules than everything else?  Do we not care about the teams that suffer from bad/missed calls in a regional or semistate loss? 

It doesn't really seem to be about the teams that didn't make it.  It is sorta like saying that all the games should be played in an outdoor stadium because it should be the same as every other game.  The fact is, it is not like any other game.  I am not saying they should automatically start using it, but the argument against should not be based on it not being used in other games during the year. 

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21 hours ago, dmizers3 said:

They can't seem to get replay consistently right in college or the NFL. Do we really think this could be effectively implemented at the high school level?  And if its tried the IHSAA just might need 3 days for the finals.

This is a very valid statement. Replay wouldn't guarantee every call was correct which is often the expectation when it's used. It could be helpful though if available. I am curious to hear how other states have used it. Hudl sideline could be helpful but you only have at most 3 cameras (more likely 1 or 2) and they don't always follow the action or zoom properly. Having a solid set of professional broadcast cameras would make it much more possible. If the only option is Hudl sideline I wouldn't support it.

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On 11/22/2019 at 1:59 PM, captainobvious said:

If we had review capabilities last year, the 2A state finals game may have had a different outcome.  It is what it is.  If you can review and get it right, why not do it??

You wouldn't happen to be referring to a backwards pass that was called incomplete where the kid scooped it up and would have scored would you? This was just one of the many botched calls by the crew that had the game. It was HUGE because Eastbrook was gaining momentum and had WEBO on their heels! Sad that it was killed as an incomplete because it was clearly a backwards pass by at least 2 yards!

 

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On 11/22/2019 at 10:13 AM, HoosierFB_JG said:

I wonder if they use end zone cameras

@HoosierFB_JG this a valid question and I'm glad you brought it up. I don't see how an instant replay / review system could be viable without the use of endzone cameras. Specifically, the Hi-Pod X31 would make a great vantage point for reviewing a play to make sure it was officiated correctly. Since the State Championship games are played one at a time, the IHSAA would only need to invest in two Hi-Pod X31s to make the process as effective as possible. Come on IHSAA!!! It's for the kids!!!

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I find it ironic that an EB fan complaining about a call and the use of video replay.

I just watched film of the game Friday between Andrean vs EB. It would have been great to have replay for EB vs Andrean onside kick with 3:15 to go. Film from 50 yard line on the side of the kick clearly shows ball traveled 10 yards and recovered by Andrean. No guarantee they score but you never know......but down 20-14 with ball at midfield with the momentum. 

Also, very late flag by sideline official, clearly influenced by EB coaches.

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On ‎11‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 11:23 AM, RegionFBFan said:

I find it ironic that an EB fan complaining about a call and the use of video replay.

I just watched film of the game Friday between Andrean vs EB. It would have been great to have replay for EB vs Andrean onside kick with 3:15 to go. Film from 50 yard line on the side of the kick clearly shows ball traveled 10 yards and recovered by Andrean. No guarantee they score but you never know......but down 20-14 with ball at midfield with the momentum. 

Also, very late flag by sideline official, clearly influenced by EB coaches.

Sorry but I was watching this streamline, and they showed this play via instant replay several times. And from what I could see, and it's still on WJOB, the kid clearly touched the ball on the 49 yard line. Rule states you cannot touch the ball before it travels 10 yards. And sorry but coaches do not influence Refs. Trust me on that one. Because last years side line Ref was clearly for WeBo. Plus since you are clearly from Andrean, and a fan of their team, turning the ball over 5 to 6 times is difficult to recover from for any team. Be it High School, College or NFL. And sorry, but Andrean never had the momentum in that game. Not sure what game you were watching. They were on their heals the entire game. Eastbrook's defense was after them the entire game.

 

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WJOB camera was not on the 50, the film I watched was right down the 50 yard line. Ball touched at 50. Agree to's cost any team especially in big games, but the game I watched had Andrean with 3 to's (2 fumbles and 1 int) and EB had 2 (1 fun and 1 int) plus a blocked punt. 

In terms of momentum, after cutting it to 20-14 at 315 with 3 to's and ball at midfield.  I'd take those chances every time. EB defense was stellar and I was impressed, but Andrean started getting their running game going in the latter part of the 3rd quarter and into the 4th. As I stated, not sure what would have happened bit I sure would have liked to have the chance to see it.

The point of my earlier text was the irony of EB complaining about video replay on a call from last year when not having it helped them this year.

Good luck tomorrow night.

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