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Why are two teams from Southern Indiana in the 3A State Finals this year?


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4 minutes ago, Alices32 said:

Southern 3A goes through Sectional 32. 

Pretty much this. 

Gibson Southern has made some good runs this decade (seemingly have lost every year to the team who wins it all or finishes runner up)

Heritage Hills historic powerhouse

Memorial before they got bumped up

now Southridge after they won state in 2017 for 2A and lost to webo in...semi state??? Last year

 

Vincennes got moved to a new sectional this year and by the accounts of the fans for the team having a “down year” they put a nice run together to win their sectional.

 

outside the scope of “32” the pocket of SW Indiana has been very strong recently.  The Kids are playing great across the board and it’s showing up in the tournaments.  I love it  

 

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Because in the IHSAA committee's infinite wisdom, they decided to put 4 of the best 10 teams in the class in one sectional (Chatard, WL, Brebeuf and Guerin Catholic) and 3 of the best teams in the class in 32 (Heritage Hills, Gibson S and Southridge).  Leaving a lot of mediocrity in the other 6 sectionals.

Thank goodness the best team in the south and the best team in the north (although Chatard never should have been in the north to begin with) are playing in the finals.  

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1 minute ago, tango said:

is wishing they were Heritage Hills or Memorial......

I think GS will get their shot.  They still have Brady Allen for two more years.  He’s got a lot of potential and Hart’s a fantastic coach.

And, while their regular season game against HH was a blowout, the sectional game was nip and tuck.  GS led most of the game.

I’d watch out for the Titans at least the next couple years.

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11 hours ago, tango said:

is wishing they were Heritage Hills or Memorial......

 

11 hours ago, MHSTigerFan said:

I think GS will get their shot.  They still have Brady Allen for two more years.  He’s got a lot of potential and Hart’s a fantastic coach.

And, while their regular season game against HH was a blowout, the sectional game was nip and tuck.  GS led most of the game.

I’d watch out for the Titans at least the next couple years.

GS is just in a weird spot it seems. 
 

I believe year in and year out they have a top 5 3A team....the only problem is that they face another top 5 team usually in sectional. 
 

some teams have the proverbial “hump” to get over. Like linton and Semi state....Gibson Southn has one for elite 3A teams where it just seems to slip away. 
 

2012- Loss to Chatard At Semi (Chatard wins title)

2013- loss to Brebeuf in semi (Brebeuf was runner up)

2014- only losses to HH (1 regular 1 sectional)...Heritage Hills fell in regionals

2015- loss to Chatard in semi (best team of GS ever.  Everyone agrees GS had the best team that year but Mother Nature wasn’t having it) Chatard wins state 

2016- loss to memorial

2017- loss to memorial (memorial state champs)

2018-loss to memorial (memorial runner up)

2019-loss to Heritage Hills......I guess we will find out how that plays out.  
 

of Harts 84-15 record....

No loss has come to a losing record team.

3 losses to eventual state champion

2 losses to eventual runner up  

2 losses to 6A schools 

 

GS is so close yet so far at the same time.  I’m hoping that this offseason is similar to 2014/2015 Offseason where the team Is super hungry and digs in....for GS to win it all or make it to LOS, they no longer can be comfortable being just one of the top teams....they have to be THE top team  

 

Edited by DumfriesYMCA
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1 hour ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

 

GS is just in a weird spot it seems. 
 

I believe year in and year out they have a top 5 3A team....the only problem is that they face another top 5 team usually in sectional. 
 

some teams have the proverbial “hump” to get over. Like linton and Semi state....Gibson Southn has one for elite 3A teams where it just seems to slip away. 
 

2012- Loss to Chatard At Semi (Chatard wins title)

2013- loss to Brebeuf in semi (Brebeuf was runner up)

2014- only losses to HH (1 regular 1 sectional)...Heritage Hills fell in regionals

2015- loss to Chatard in semi (best team of GS ever.  Everyone agrees GS had the best team that year but Mother Nature wasn’t having it) Chatard wins state 

2016- loss to memorial

2017- loss to memorial (memorial state champs)

2018-loss to memorial (memorial runner up)

2019-loss to Heritage Hills......I guess we will find out how that plays out.  
 

of Harts 84-15 record....

No loss has come to a losing record team.

3 losses to eventual state champion

2 losses to eventual runner up  

2 losses to 6A schools 

 

GS is so close yet so far at the same time.  I’m hoping that this offseason is similar to 2014/2015 Offseason where the team Is super hungry and digs in....for GS to win it all or make it to LOS, they no longer can be comfortable being just one of the top teams....they have to be THE top team  

 

Correction HH fell in the semi state to eventual state champs 14-6

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18 hours ago, DanteEstonia said:

Is the State now divided East/West in 3A?

Which school from 3A south would you suggest switching with Chatard?  The furthest north of any of the schools in sectionals 29-32 is Tri-West.  It is almost “due west” of Chatard.  So it’s basically a wash if you are trying to pick the school that is further north.  The IHSAA doesn’t propose the alignment, representatives of the member schools do.  The natural pairing would be to keep Tri-West and Danville together, and Chatard and Brebeuf together.  If you send Danville and Tri-West north, and Brebeuf and Chatard south, then you’ll have people argue that there is some kind of bias against the schools in the southern half of the state since they would have to go through the Indy parochial schools.  The line has to be drawn somewhere, and I think the committee for 3A made the most logical choice they could with splitting those sectionals north and south.

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1 hour ago, HoopsCoach said:

Which school from 3A south would you suggest switching with Chatard?  The furthest north of any of the schools in sectionals 29-32 is Tri-West.  It is almost “due west” of Chatard.  So it’s basically a wash if you are trying to pick the school that is further north.  The IHSAA doesn’t propose the alignment, representatives of the member schools do.  The natural pairing would be to keep Tri-West and Danville together, and Chatard and Brebeuf together.  If you send Danville and Tri-West north, and Brebeuf and Chatard south, then you’ll have people argue that there is some kind of bias against the schools in the southern half of the state since they would have to go through the Indy parochial schools.  The line has to be drawn somewhere, and I think the committee for 3A made the most logical choice they could with splitting those sectionals north and south.

Go ahead and explain the debacle that was Sectional 30 

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1 hour ago, jets said:

Go ahead and explain the debacle that was Sectional 30 

Some of you people just love spitting on those kids and programs this year. Where was all this talk of weak sectionals for 1A-5A before? Newsflash I don't ever recall a sectional ever being under such scrutiny since I've been a member here. That's over a decade of following this forum. 

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23 minutes ago, D3dream said:

Some of you people just love spitting on those kids and programs this year. Where was all this talk of weak sectionals for 1A-5A before? Newsflash I don't ever recall a sectional ever being under such scrutiny since I've been a member here. That's over a decade of following this forum. 

The gentleman was providing an explanation for alignment in class 3A and seemed knowledgeable on the subject- so I asked for him to explain what I felt was a discrepancy/mistake on the alignment committees part. 

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4 hours ago, HoopsCoach said:

Which school from 3A south would you suggest switching with Chatard?  The furthest north of any of the schools in sectionals 29-32 is Tri-West.  It is almost “due west” of Chatard.  So it’s basically a wash if you are trying to pick the school that is further north.  The IHSAA doesn’t propose the alignment, representatives of the member schools do.  The natural pairing would be to keep Tri-West and Danville together, and Chatard and Brebeuf together.  If you send Danville and Tri-West north, and Brebeuf and Chatard south, then you’ll have people argue that there is some kind of bias against the schools in the southern half of the state since they would have to go through the Indy parochial schools.  The line has to be drawn somewhere, and I think the committee for 3A made the most logical choice they could with splitting those sectionals north and south.

Why are those the “natural” pairings?  Chatard and Brebeuf have never been a consistent “natural” pairing. Chatard has been in the South forever.  Brebeuf bounces back and forth.

If we are truly worried only about (A) “natural pairings” then why go down the whole discussion path of  (B) “if you send....Brebeuf and Chatard south, then you’ll have people argue there is some kind of bias against the schools in the southern half of the state since they would have to go through the Indy parochial schools”?

So, which is it that determines these things?  Natural pairings (which seem natural only now but haven’t been the last 20+ years) or using Indy parochials like a missile to apparently punish the part of the State that gets stuck with them (paraphrasing of point “B”).

Per the comments above, apparently Tri-West (whoops, did I say that) was “biased” against the northern part of the State this time around when it pointed the Indy parochials North and we ended up with a 3A  South so that any team capable of walking and chewing gum concurrently from Sectional 29 (containing Tri-West, shockingly) has a free ride to Semistate.  

An aside.....but how is it just an accident that 7 of the Top 10 Sagarin ranked 3A schools somehow end up in Sectionals 28 and 32?  4 of the Top 6 in Sectional 28 which has NEVER been a “natural” geographic combination of teams in Sectional.  Brebeuf has not anytime recently shared a Sectional with West Lafayette although they have, at times, been North.  Now suddenly, West Lafayette, Brebeuf, Guerin and Chatard together are “only natural”?  But then, its been admitted that now the Indy parochials are simply a weapon to yield to punish the “losing”part of the state as regards the internal politics of playoff and Sectional structuring.    

BTW, anyone shedding crocodile tears about somehow disrespecting Sectional 30 teams who are the doormat to Semistate for the Sectional 29 winner can spare me.  I’ll save my tears for West Lafayette, Brebeuf (did I just say that?...must be nuts), Guerin, Gibson Southern and Southridge.  I have always hated the phrase “get better or get used to it” but it’s the best I can offer Sectional 30.

When it comes to the legitimizing of so much of the current playoff system and how the Sectionals have been determined - don’t think for a minute the rest of us believe there is some fundamental purity of intent there.   

 

Edited by Lysander
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24 minutes ago, Lysander said:

Why are those the “natural” pairings?  Chatard and Brebeuf have never been a consistent “natural” pairing. Chatard has been in the South forever.  Brebeuf bounces back and forth.

If we are truly worried only about (A) “natural pairings” then why go down the whole discussion path of  (B) “if you send....Brebeuf and Chatard south, then you’ll have people argue there is some kind of bias against the schools in the southern half of the state since they would have to go through the Indy parochial schools”?

So, which is it that determines these things?  Natural pairings (which seem natural only now but haven’t been the last 20+ years) or using Indy parochials like a missile to apparently punish the part of the State that gets stuck with them (paraphrasing of point “B”).

Per the comments above, apparently Tri-West (whoops, did I say that) was “biased” against the northern part of the State this time around when it pointed the Indy parochials North and we ended up with a 3A  South so that any team capable of walking and chewing gum concurrently from Sectional 29 (containing Tri-West, shockingly) has a free ride to Semistate.  

An aside.....but how is it just an accident that 7 of the Top 10 Sagarin ranked 3A schools somehow end up in Sectionals 28 and 32?  4 of the Top 6 in Sectional 28 which has NEVER been a “natural” geographic combination of teams in Sectional.  Brebeuf has not anytime recently shared a Sectional with West Lafayette although they have, at times, been North.  Now suddenly, West Lafayette, Brebeuf, Guerin and Chatard together are “only natural”?  But then, its been admitted that now the Indy parochials are simply a weapon to yield to punish the “losing”part of the state as regards the internal politics of playoff and Sectional structuring.    

BTW, anyone shedding crocodile tears about somehow disrespecting Sectional 30 teams who are the doormat to Semistate for the Sectional 29 winner can spare me.  I’ll save my tears for West Lafayette, Brebeuf (did I just say that?...must be nuts), Guerin, Gibson Southern and Southridge.  I have always hated the phrase “get better or get used to it” but it’s the best I can offer Sectional 30.

When it comes to the legitimizing of so much of the current playoff system and how the Sectionals have been determined - don’t think for a minute the rest of us believe there is some fundamental purity of intent there.   

 

Yes and yes. 

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6 minutes ago, hunter63 said:

What well happen next year Western Boone well have to move to 3a, or if Chatard would win state this year do they have to move up to 4a since they made it to semi-state last year

Both WeBo and Chatard started at 0 points this year as regards how the IHSAA calculates the Success Factor.  Currently they have both earned  3 points so far this year,  If they both win this year then all they need to do is win a Regional next year to move up a class.

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2 minutes ago, Lysander said:

Both WeBo and Chatard started at 0 points this year as regards how the IHSAA calculates the Success Factor.  Currently they have both earned  3 points so far this year,  If they both win this year then all they need to do is win a Regional next year to move up a class.

ok I don't understand that Southridge wins state in 17 goes to semi-state 18 they have to move up to 3a, WeBo wins state in 18 goes back in 19 why don't they move up(me missing something here) just asking cause if they move up would they be in north or south 3a 

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13 minutes ago, hunter63 said:

ok I don't understand that Southridge wins state in 17 goes to semi-state 18 they have to move up to 3a, WeBo wins state in 18 goes back in 19 why don't they move up(me missing something here) just asking cause if they move up would they be in north or south 3a 

It resets to 0 points every 2 years. This is the year you start with 0 points.  WeBo started this year with 0 points - no carryover from last year.

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Geography. There aren't a lot of 3A teams in the northern half of the state, so the Indy teams got routed through the northern semistate. 

Last year, Marion played in a southern semistate in Class 4A because that class is very north-heavy. 

If you look at the 3A map, the north/south dividing line goes right through the middle of Indianapolis. 

For those who want to question the geography, here are the maps, color-coded by sectional

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On ‎11‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 10:15 PM, hunter63 said:

ok I don't understand that Southridge wins state in 17 goes to semi-state 18 they have to move up to 3a, WeBo wins state in 18 goes back in 19 why don't they move up(me missing something here) just asking cause if they move up would they be in north or south 3a 

the 2019 & 2020 Season will determine if Webo gets bumped up... Just like the 2017 Season and 2018 season determined that Southridge had to get bumped.  It's not the number of points in a 2 year period, it's the number of points in the 2 year CYCLE

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