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5A: Valparaiso (13-0) vs New Palestine (13-0)


5A: Valparaiso (13-0) vs New Palestine (13-0)  

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    • Valparaiso
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    • New Palestine
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14 hours ago, Boilernation said:

After hosting Carmel in Valpo's '75 3A State Champtionship win, they haven't caught many breaks in State Championship match ups.

1985 5A Title: Jeff George

2001 5A Title: James Banks

2019 5A Title: The New Pal juggernaut

I would be curious to see the career earnings of the WR's taken in the '07 draft vs. Jeff's. I believe he's pushing $200M with his recent contract. I could be way off, and I have looked at career earnings, but my guess is only Megatron could have touched that if he kept playing.

 

.....and Carmel had Mark Herrmann in ‘75. Valpo played their trump card, bone chilling temperature and -20 wind chill.

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Very frustrating game to watch from a Valpo perspective. Looks like the Vikes could use a lot of offseason 7 on 7 work.   Valpo has athletes all over the place.  Why does the 6-5 QB over thr

Come on. Put this to rest already. Beat em twice. With and without #30.

Opinions can be wrong and being on the field in the midst of team, I can tell you first hand your observations and opinions are wrong. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but just because you

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20 hours ago, Boilernation said:

After hosting Carmel in Valpo's '75 3A State Champtionship win, they haven't caught many breaks in State Championship match ups.

1985 5A Title: Jeff George

2001 5A Title: James Banks

2019 5A Title: The New Pal juggernaut

I would be curious to see the career earnings of the WR's taken in the '07 draft vs. Jeff's. I believe he's pushing $200M with his recent contract. I could be way off, and I have looked at career earnings, but my guess is only Megatron could have touched that if he kept playing.

 

Breaking news!  Teams with great football players often play for state championships!

Poor Valpo...

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6 hours ago, Staxawax said:

.....and Carmel had Mark Herrmann in ‘75. Valpo played their trump card, bone chilling temperature and -20 wind chill.

I really enjoyed Mark’s role as a surfer dude teacher in Summer School. 😉

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1 hour ago, Temptation said:

Breaking news!  Teams with great football players often play for state championships!

Poor Valpo...

Yeah, we’ll see a lot of James Banks and Jeff George type talent all over LOS this weekend...There’s a major difference between a team with great football players and once in a generation type talent. Nevertheless, it’s the draw they were given, by no means am I saying the deserve sympathy. 

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1 hour ago, Boilernation said:

Yeah, we’ll see a lot of James Banks and Jeff George type talent all over LOS this weekend...There’s a major difference between a team with great football players and once in a generation type talent. Nevertheless, it’s the draw they were given, by no means am I saying the deserve sympathy. 

Jeff Samardzija was a once in a generation type talent also.

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21 minutes ago, DannEllenwood said:

Jeff Samardzija was a once in a generation type talent also.

Yep. I think they had Banks cover him. Not sure if that was the only time all season that Banks played DB. Now that kid could have possibly found his way into the NFL had he kept his head straight. 

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20 minutes ago, Boilernation said:

Yep. I think they had Banks cover him. Not sure if that was the only time all season that Banks played DB. Now that kid could have possibly found his way into the NFL had he kept his head straight. 

Agreed.

JS was the best HS fb player I had ever coached against and saw in person.

Jaylon Smith was and is very special too.

Banks was the best HS fb player I have ever seen (never saw him in person).

Banks did cover him.  Like the ole Deion Sanders DB technique.  Completely closed off that side of the field.

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This week is taking too long because the longer it takes for this game to happen the more I believe Valpo has a shot. To think Valpo will get smashed mouth, difficult for me to see. Two legit D1 defensive lineman, Jones being probably the best DL in the state and big, solid Lbs. I keep hearing how Cathedral had a big DL, but if you watch that game, that big DT in the middle didn’t move unless he was getting blown off the ball back into the secondary. I cannot imagine in any case in which that will happen with Valpos DL, especially Jones who is a mini JJ Watt. I can say it here, but watch Dwengers last few plays and see how this junior just dominates the big tackle in front of him, just amazing to see a kid that young and big beat up a kid in front of him. 
 

I can’t wait to see if New Pal will be able to take advantage of Valpos cover 3 or man coverage on the backend as very few team have had the time to get a pass off against them. 

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56 minutes ago, DACNUT said:

This week is taking too long because the longer it takes for this game to happen the more I believe Valpo has a shot. To think Valpo will get smashed mouth, difficult for me to see. Two legit D1 defensive lineman, Jones being probably the best DL in the state and big, solid Lbs. I keep hearing how Cathedral had a big DL, but if you watch that game, that big DT in the middle didn’t move unless he was getting blown off the ball back into the secondary. I cannot imagine in any case in which that will happen with Valpos DL, especially Jones who is a mini JJ Watt. I can say it here, but watch Dwengers last few plays and see how this junior just dominates the big tackle in front of him, just amazing to see a kid that young and big beat up a kid in front of him. 
 

I can’t wait to see if New Pal will be able to take advantage of Valpos cover 3 or man coverage on the backend as very few team have had the time to get a pass off against them. 

Nice to see some Positive vibes for the underdogs in the  state title game. Part of me thinks that valpo may suprise as well . But i thought Center Grove and Cathedral would have done the same vs new pal. I think the big thing about new pal's total team is that it isn't just Charlie Spegal or their d lineman that is headed to msu, i believe that almost  every player out there is stronger than the average player  that are  opponents in some way and they use their total team strengths very well.   Hope both teams leave it all on the field and see where the chips fall. 

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1 hour ago, DACNUT said:

This week is taking too long because the longer it takes for this game to happen the more I believe Valpo has a shot. To think Valpo will get smashed mouth, difficult for me to see. Two legit D1 defensive lineman, Jones being probably the best DL in the state and big, solid Lbs. I keep hearing how Cathedral had a big DL, but if you watch that game, that big DT in the middle didn’t move unless he was getting blown off the ball back into the secondary. I cannot imagine in any case in which that will happen with Valpos DL, especially Jones who is a mini JJ Watt. I can say it here, but watch Dwengers last few plays and see how this junior just dominates the big tackle in front of him, just amazing to see a kid that young and big beat up a kid in front of him. 
 

I can’t wait to see if New Pal will be able to take advantage of Valpos cover 3 or man coverage on the backend as very few team have had the time to get a pass off against them. 

Love the optimism though I disagree on a couple of points.  I'd love for this to be a contest as it would be neat to see New Pal pushed into the fourth quarter, but I just don't see it.

 

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1 hour ago, DACNUT said:

This week is taking too long because the longer it takes for this game to happen the more I believe Valpo has a shot. To think Valpo will get smashed mouth, difficult for me to see. Two legit D1 defensive lineman, Jones being probably the best DL in the state and big, solid Lbs. I keep hearing how Cathedral had a big DL, but if you watch that game, that big DT in the middle didn’t move unless he was getting blown off the ball back into the secondary. I cannot imagine in any case in which that will happen with Valpos DL, especially Jones who is a mini JJ Watt. I can say it here, but watch Dwengers last few plays and see how this junior just dominates the big tackle in front of him, just amazing to see a kid that young and big beat up a kid in front of him. 
 

I can’t wait to see if New Pal will be able to take advantage of Valpos cover 3 or man coverage on the backend as very few team have had the time to get a pass off against them. 

I have a feeling Jones will follow his in his dad's footsteps and play at Notre Dame if offered. To date, Ohio State and Michigan have offered, so the kid definitely has some choices. I'm looking forward to seeing if Valpo's front 7 has the chops to back up their hype at this level of competition. This New Pal O-Line is one of the most dominant I've personally watched at the HS level. 

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On 11/25/2019 at 10:06 AM, DannEllenwood said:

To The B1G?

LOL this was a good one!

Carmel is one extremely large high school for sure! Carmel's enrollment is around 5200-5300 students. To put it in perspective, the average D2 school is roughly 3700-3800 students.

 

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19 hours ago, DACNUT said:

I keep hearing how Cathedral had a big DL, but if you watch that game, that big DT in the middle didn’t move unless he was getting blown off the ball back into the secondary. 

I’m having doubts that you watched the game. To start off With him not moving is a testament to the game plan New Pal had. They were providing help and neutralizing the NG very rarely did they leave him 1 on 1 with an O-lineman. Secondly did you miss the play where the DT you say didn’t move burst through hitting the QB in the backfield and took the ball from the QB.

him being pushed back into the secondary is what NP O-lone is capable of doing. The New Pal O-line is very disciplined, very strong, has excellent foot work, and excellent technique. This has been something I have noticed on film since Coach Ralph has been Head Coach at Nee Pal. Considering Coach Ralph was an All State O-lineman and considered a top 25 O-lineman coming out of St. X  Cincy and then went on to be All ACC and the #10 Guard in the Country while at UNC it is no surprise he teaches his O-line to be very disciplined and to pay attention to detail (footwork, technique, etc)

We will see how the State Championship game plays out. That being said New Pal is very good and not all hype. They moved the ball very well against Cathedral whom had an excellent defense that was put to the test against several very good offenses throughout the year. 

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1 hour ago, FastpacedO said:

I’m having doubts that you watched the game. To start off With him not moving is a testament to the game plan New Pal had. They were providing help and neutralizing the NG very rarely did they leave him 1 on 1 with an O-lineman. Secondly did you miss the play where the DT you say didn’t move burst through hitting the QB in the backfield and took the ball from the QB.

him being pushed back into the secondary is what NP O-lone is capable of doing. The New Pal O-line is very disciplined, very strong, has excellent foot work, and excellent technique. This has been something I have noticed on film since Coach Ralph has been Head Coach at Nee Pal. Considering Coach Ralph was an All State O-lineman and considered a top 25 O-lineman coming out of St. X  Cincy and then went on to be All ACC and the #10 Guard in the Country while at UNC it is no surprise he teaches his O-line to be very disciplined and to pay attention to detail (footwork, technique, etc)

We will see how the State Championship game plays out. That being said New Pal is very good and not all hype. They moved the ball very well against Cathedral whom had an excellent defense that was put to the test against several very good offenses throughout the year. 

i take it you haven’t watched the second half of the New Pal and Cathedral game? You sort of validate what I’m saying in that the big DT in the middle for Cathedral was a non factor in the second half. Please go back and watch and see how it wasn’t that he was getting blocked, he wasn’t, there were several plays in which he just stands up and body bumps, the people in front of him, some in which New Pal doesn’t even block him as part of their scheme. I don’t think I really have to say anything about New Pals o-line as we’ve all seen several highlights over the last several years to know how well coached they are. I’m simply making an argument for Valpo.
 

Now have you watched the last game New Pal lost to Noblesville or the  other teams with big DL they have faced in 5A in the tournament besides Cathedral the last two years, Michigan City and Decatur Central? All of these games have a common theme, they have an opportunity to go in for multiple TD leads but don’t. Somehow all of these teams have missed that opportunity and then it’s the avalanche of New Pals offense and defense just running them off the field and they are doing it with kids going both ways. That will be one huge advantage that no one is talking about IF Valpo can keep the wheels on through the 4th quarter is that they don’t have two way players while New Pals two best players, Hook and King never come off the field. Usually they are also the best players on the field, that won’t be the case this game. Maybe the second and third best for what it’s worth, no doubt they are darn good. Can’t wait to see Jones and King go against each other, heck and maybe when Hook is at HBack, him getting at Jones too. 

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35 minutes ago, DACNUT said:

i take it you haven’t watched the second half of the New Pal and Cathedral game? You sort of validate what I’m saying in that the big DT in the middle for Cathedral was a non factor in the second half. Please go back and watch and see how it wasn’t that he was getting blocked, he wasn’t, there were several plays in which he just stands up and body bumps, the people in front of him, some in which New Pal doesn’t even block him as part of their scheme. I don’t think I really have to say anything about New Pals o-line as we’ve all seen several highlights over the last several years to know how well coached they are. I’m simply making an argument for Valpo.
 

Now have you watched the last game New Pal lost to Noblesville or the  other teams with big DL they have faced in 5A in the tournament besides Cathedral the last two years, Michigan City and Decatur Central? All of these games have a common theme, they have an opportunity to go in for multiple TD leads but don’t. Somehow all of these teams have missed that opportunity and then it’s the avalanche of New Pals offense and defense just running them off the field and they are doing it with kids going both ways. That will be one huge advantage that no one is talking about IF Valpo can keep the wheels on through the 4th quarter is that they don’t have two way players while New Pals two best players, Hook and King never come off the field. Usually they are also the best players on the field, that won’t be the case this game. Maybe the second and third best for what it’s worth, no doubt they are darn good. Can’t wait to see Jones and King go against each other, heck and maybe when Hook is at HBack, him getting at Jones too. 

When did New Pal lose to Noblesville?  Anyway, you are right about Michigan City and Cathedral missing some opportunities,  most of which had more to do with New Pal's defense than anything.   I think you're way off though expecting New Pal's 2 way guys to wear down.  They've played at least 2 teams at least as good as Valpo, I'd argue better, neither of which have guys going both ways and the Dragons wore them down.  I expect a great game for at least 3 quarters.  I'm interested to see if Valpo has enough offense to stay in it and if New Pal can throw it effectively enough to keep Valpo from just loading the box to stop the run.

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8 minutes ago, dmizers3 said:

When did New Pal lose to Noblesville?  Anyway, you are right about Michigan City and Cathedral missing some opportunities,  most of which had more to do with New Pal's defense than anything.   I think you're way off though expecting New Pal's 2 way guys to wear down.  They've played at least 2 teams at least as good as Valpo, I'd argue better, neither of which have guys going both ways and the Dragons wore them down.  I expect a great game for at least 3 quarters.  I'm interested to see if Valpo has enough offense to stay in it and if New Pal can throw it effectively enough to keep Valpo from just loading the box to stop the run.

Misspoke, meant to say Zionsville. You are correct about Valpo's offense, not much to say, they are a puzzle up this way. Big and strong Oline, not better than New Pals, but whose Online is? They are obviously darn good. A big and strong quarterback, with sneaky good athleticism, and a stable of RB's that are solid, but nothing great. For whatever reason, they don't pass the ball down the field as the QB generally has a clean pocket, in stead he just does three step drops and either they run the old school route tree, 1 5 and 9s. They didn't really have to pass against Mville even though they were down multiple TD's, they were down a TD against MC and threw on several 3 and longs, but other than that, they haven't had to pass the ball. I've watched those games New Pal has played against those two teams. I know both Decatur Central and MC loaded the box against New Pal last year and got exposed on the backend, I will also be interested to see if New Pal can do the same against Valpo. This will also be the ultimate test of two teams that don't make killer turnovers or penalties. Will New Pals QB outplay Valpo's is what I see as the difference. Who will make the least mistakes or the key play, which one of the two will not panic when these two awesome defenses are making the game extremely fast. 

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18 minutes ago, dmizers3 said:

When did New Pal lose to Noblesville?  Anyway, you are right about Michigan City and Cathedral missing some opportunities,  most of which had more to do with New Pal's defense than anything.   I think you're way off though expecting New Pal's 2 way guys to wear down.  They've played at least 2 teams at least as good as Valpo, I'd argue better, neither of which have guys going both ways and the Dragons wore them down.  I expect a great game for at least 3 quarters.  I'm interested to see if Valpo has enough offense to stay in it and if New Pal can throw it effectively enough to keep Valpo from just loading the box to stop the run.

Certainly he means Zionsville...

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1 hour ago, DACNUT said:

Now have you watched the last game New Pal lost to Noblesville or the  other teams with big DL they have faced in 5A in the tournament besides Cathedral the last two years, Michigan City and Decatur Central? All of these games have a common theme, they have an opportunity to go in for multiple TD leads but don’t. Somehow all of these teams have missed that opportunity and then it’s the avalanche of New Pals offense and defense just running them off the field and they are doing it with kids going both ways. That will be one huge advantage that no one is talking about IF Valpo can keep the wheels on through the 4th quarter is that they don’t have two way players while New Pals two best players, Hook and King never come off the field. Usually they are also the best players on the field, that won’t be the case this game. Maybe the second and third best for what it’s worth, no doubt they are darn good. Can’t wait to see Jones and King go against each other, heck and maybe when Hook is at HBack, him getting at Jones too. 

New Pal has never played Noblesville. And the last game they lost - two years ago against Zionsville - was with a team full of sophomores in a rebuilding year to a very good program that just won a 6A sectional. Decatur Central *never* led against New Palestine, and trailed 28-6 at half. There was never a chance to go in for a "multiple TD lead." With regards to Michigan City, MC dominated the first quarter, NP hit a big 77-yard passing TD, and the Dragons seized control, took a lead going into halftime and then pulled away in the second half. 

While New Palestine has a number of two-way players, understand they condition to play four quarters. Against Center Grove, Whiteland, Cathedral - all teams who have huge rosters and no two-way players - NP has a 70-3 second-half scoring advantage (21-0 against Whiteland, 28-0 against Cathedral, 21-3 vs. Center Grove). Spegal is an X-factor, as he's a punishing runner and a difficult guy to tackle 30 times a game. His best work comes late in games. 

These teams are very evenly matched. Both have great OLs, really defensive fronts, aggressive defenses, good running backs, QBs who can make plays. It's going to come down to the fourth quarter. Hook, Spegal, King, Jones, Dingman ... lots of great players and difference-makers on the field. 

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6 minutes ago, DACNUT said:

Misspoke, meant to say Zionsville. You are correct about Valpo's offense, not much to say, they are a puzzle up this way. Big and strong Oline, not better than New Pals, but whose Online is? They are obviously darn good. A big and strong quarterback, with sneaky good athleticism, and a stable of RB's that are solid, but nothing great. For whatever reason, they don't pass the ball down the field as the QB generally has a clean pocket, in stead he just does three step drops and either they run the old school route tree, 1 5 and 9s. They didn't really have to pass against Mville even though they were down multiple TD's, they were down a TD against MC and threw on several 3 and longs, but other than that, they haven't had to pass the ball. I've watched those games New Pal has played against those two teams. I know both Decatur Central and MC loaded the box against New Pal last year and got exposed on the backend, I will also be interested to see if New Pal can do the same against Valpo. This will also be the ultimate test of two teams that don't make killer turnovers or penalties. Will New Pals QB outplay Valpo's is what I see as the difference. Who will make the least mistakes or the key play, which one of the two will not panic when these two awesome defenses are making the game extremely fast. 

Absolutely agree.  Should be fun, although selfishly I will root for a stress free 2nd, lol, but do not expect it at all.

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1 hour ago, DACNUT said:

i take it you haven’t watched the second half of the New Pal and Cathedral game? You sort of validate what I’m saying in that the big DT in the middle for Cathedral was a non factor in the second half. Please go back and watch and see how it wasn’t that he was getting blocked, he wasn’t, there were several plays in which he just stands up and body bumps, the people in front of him, some in which New Pal doesn’t even block him as part of their scheme. I don’t think I really have to say anything about New Pals o-line as we’ve all seen several highlights over the last several years to know how well coached they are. I’m simply making an argument for Valpo.
 

Now have you watched the last game New Pal lost to Noblesville or the  other teams with big DL they have faced in 5A in the tournament besides Cathedral the last two years, Michigan City and Decatur Central? All of these games have a common theme, they have an opportunity to go in for multiple TD leads but don’t. Somehow all of these teams have missed that opportunity and then it’s the avalanche of New Pals offense and defense just running them off the field and they are doing it with kids going both ways. That will be one huge advantage that no one is talking about IF Valpo can keep the wheels on through the 4th quarter is that they don’t have two way players while New Pals two best players, Hook and King never come off the field. Usually they are also the best players on the field, that won’t be the case this game. Maybe the second and third best for what it’s worth, no doubt they are darn good. Can’t wait to see Jones and King go against each other, heck and maybe when Hook is at HBack, him getting at Jones too. 

New Pal has never lost to Noblesville... 2 times to Columbus East, 1 to Zionsville, 1 to Snider... easy to remember cause it rarely happens lol..  

 

Good Luck to both schools on Friday evening. I will be in Cameron Indoor for the Duke game, thank god we aren’t playing Stephen F Austin 😂

58 minutes ago, DACNUT said:

Misspoke, meant to say Zionsville. You are correct about Valpo's offense, not much to say, they are a puzzle up this way. Big and strong Oline, not better than New Pals, but whose Online is? They are obviously darn good. A big and strong quarterback, with sneaky good athleticism, and a stable of RB's that are solid, but nothing great. For whatever reason, they don't pass the ball down the field as the QB generally has a clean pocket, in stead he just does three step drops and either they run the old school route tree, 1 5 and 9s. They didn't really have to pass against Mville even though they were down multiple TD's, they were down a TD against MC and threw on several 3 and longs, but other than that, they haven't had to pass the ball. I've watched those games New Pal has played against those two teams. I know both Decatur Central and MC loaded the box against New Pal last year and got exposed on the backend, I will also be interested to see if New Pal can do the same against Valpo. This will also be the ultimate test of two teams that don't make killer turnovers or penalties. Will New Pals QB outplay Valpo's is what I see as the difference. Who will make the least mistakes or the key play, which one of the two will not panic when these two awesome defenses are making the game extremely fast. 

I see you corrected, didn’t read all the replies lol 

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7 hours ago, dmizers3 said:

Absolutely agree.  Should be fun, although selfishly I will root for a stress free 2nd, lol, but do not expect it at all.

I agree, I like a good blowout. But since I know Valpo isn't blowing out New Pal, I'm hoping for a good competitive game. 

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On 11/27/2019 at 9:16 AM, DACNUT said:

i take it you haven’t watched the second half of the New Pal and Cathedral game? You sort of validate what I’m saying in that the big DT in the middle for Cathedral was a non factor in the second half. Please go back and watch and see how it wasn’t that he was getting blocked, he wasn’t, there were several plays in which he just stands up and body bumps, the people in front of him, some in which New Pal doesn’t even block him as part of their scheme. I don’t think I really have to say anything about New Pals o-line as we’ve all seen several highlights over the last several years to know how well coached they are. I’m simply making an argument for Valpo.
 

Now have you watched the last game New Pal lost to Noblesville or the  other teams with big DL they have faced in 5A in the tournament besides Cathedral the last two years, Michigan City and Decatur Central? All of these games have a common theme, they have an opportunity to go in for multiple TD leads but don’t. Somehow all of these teams have missed that opportunity and then it’s the avalanche of New Pals offense and defense just running them off the field and they are doing it with kids going both ways. That will be one huge advantage that no one is talking about IF Valpo can keep the wheels on through the 4th quarter is that they don’t have two way players while New Pals two best players, Hook and King never come off the field. Usually they are also the best players on the field, that won’t be the case this game. Maybe the second and third best for what it’s worth, no doubt they are darn good. Can’t wait to see Jones and King go against each other, heck and maybe when Hook is at HBack, him getting at Jones too. 

I did watch the 2nd half. At the end of the 3rd and most of the 4th the Cathedral defense was getting wore down. Granted untimely turnovers by the Irish Offense led to the Irish defense being in the field more. That is what New Pal has done force a turnover keep relentlessly pounding you with Spegal to see if your defense can tackle him well for 4 qtrs. 

I mentioned in the interview with Coach Ralph he said the goal is to get a minimum of 3 turnovers from the defense and keep feeding the ball to Spegal locking up the lineman and LB’s with their O-line and getting Spegal into the secondary and seeing if the can continue to tackle him well for 4 qtrs. 

I have a feeling the goal is no different for this game. Sure you can get stops but can you do it for 4 qtrs. They also have very good team speed. Even though they have 2 way players they get stronger as the game wears on (testament to their conditioning). 

I think you will find after the game is over that Even though you saw things on film from New Pal vs Cathedral that the Irish were pretty darn good just New Pal has a special disciplined team. Same can be said for Center Grive who was wore down by the Dragons. I do expect a good game with Nee Pal wearing the Vikings down.

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I'm also looking forward to this game. First time to see Spegal play, what a career.  Also looking forward to seeing Valpo's defense,for first time,  especially the two D1 ends.

I hope its a close well played game., but I think NP too much for Valpo.  If Valpo has any chance, it must be low scoring.  Valpo does not have enough offense to keep up in a high scoring game.

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