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2A: Eastbrook (12-2) vs Western Boone (13-1)


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2A: Eastbrook (12-2) vs Western Boone (13-1)  

100 members have voted

  1. 1. Who ya got?

    • Eastbrook
      33
    • Western Boone
      67


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38 minutes ago, 1st and Goal said:

 

With each and every passing day and the more film I watch, I’m more inclined to think that the Stars will be victorious this Saturday!  I just don’t think that the Panthers will be able to keep up with Western Boone's team speed and tenacity through four quarters of play!  The Panthers are a good team, I just think this Western Boone team is built to outlast good teams!  Should be a great game, until Western Boone starts to pull away late!  Good Luck Stars!  Finish Strong!!

Pretty original!  You fail miserably due to plagiarism!!

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1 hour ago, captainobvious said:

Just not smart enough to come up with it on your own?

I knew you couldn't make it all week without running it a bit! I kinda hope you do win, I'd hate to see you break the red ring record....If we are counting your red ring reading score! Should we be saying the you represent all the EB fans like you presumed about us? I've met some, so I wont. On a side note, did anyone see that I'm in the positive category for the first time! Im sure the Captain will lead a charge to change that though.

Edited by Sargent Dangle
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1 hour ago, Sargent Dangle said:

 

I knew you couldn't make it all week without running it a bit! I kinda hope you do win, I'd hate to see you break the red ring record....If we are counting your red ring reading score! Should we be saying the you represent all the EB fans like you presumed about us? I've met some, so I wont. On a side note, did anyone see that I'm in the positive category for the first time! Im sure the Captain will lead a charge to change that though.

Who’s we??  Don’t eat too much on Thanksgiving, Private Dangleberry!  You need to save room for some humble pie on Saturday!  I’m sure you have met some EB fans, they’re everywhere!  Now go ask your dad if it’s ok for you to keep using his data.  I’d hate for you to get a spanking!

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Can Saturday be here already?????? I think this will be a really good game. 2 hard nosed teams with 2 great coaches. Win or lose it is special to get this far, in the end these kids from both teams have been proving people wrong all year. I have been saying all year the thing that will hold Eastbrook back is their line on both sides. Then last week our line manhandle a huge Andrean team. Eastbrook had the biggest target for teams in the North, same for Western Boone and teams in the south, yet both found a way to play on thanksgiving weekend again. If you want to be the best, you have to beat the best and right now that’s Webo. So my Panthers better come out with energy and focus. Blue or Red ring it is special playing on thanksgiving weekend!

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11 minutes ago, panther10 said:

Can Saturday be here already?????? I think this will be a really good game. 2 hard nosed teams with 2 great coaches. Win or lose it is special to get this far, in the end these kids from both teams have been proving people wrong all year. I have been saying all year the thing that will hold Eastbrook back is their line on both sides. Then last week our line manhandle a huge Andrean team. Eastbrook had the biggest target for teams in the North, same for Western Boone and teams in the south, yet both found a way to play on thanksgiving weekend again. If you want to be the best, you have to beat the best and right now that’s Webo. So my Panthers better come out with energy and focus. Blue or Red ring it is special playing on thanksgiving weekend!

The underline, I agree with (I don’t know enough about the rest)


 Safe Travels Saturday, Panther10.  

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23 minutes ago, panther10 said:

Can Saturday be here already?????? I think this will be a really good game. 2 hard nosed teams with 2 great coaches. Win or lose it is special to get this far, in the end these kids from both teams have been proving people wrong all year. I have been saying all year the thing that will hold Eastbrook back is their line on both sides. Then last week our line manhandle a huge Andrean team. Eastbrook had the biggest target for teams in the North, same for Western Boone and teams in the south, yet both found a way to play on thanksgiving weekend again. If you want to be the best, you have to beat the best and right now that’s Webo. So my Panthers better come out with energy and focus. Blue or Red ring it is special playing on thanksgiving weekend!

I agree with your entire statement and I’ll go a step further and say Eastbrook wins this game!  Very exciting!!

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44 minutes ago, 1st and Goal said:

After watching Last weeks game feel bad for the Andrean Kid at the end. He got the onside kick just beyond the 10yards and it got called back. Could of been a different outcome 

Not to mention the defensive touchdown early in the second quarter was neither a lateral nor a catch/fumble.  Should not have been ruled a live ball.  

But it's the same field that I saw my first and only roughing the holder penalty just a year earlier so I am not surprised.  

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1 hour ago, 1st and Goal said:

After watching Last weeks game feel bad for the Andrean Kid at the end. He got the onside kick just beyond the 10yards and it got called back. Could of been a different outcome 

 

18 minutes ago, XStar said:

Not to mention the defensive touchdown early in the second quarter was neither a lateral nor a catch/fumble.  Should not have been ruled a live ball.  

But it's the same field that I saw my first and only roughing the holder penalty just a year earlier so I am not surprised.  

 

2 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

pressbox was also in disbelief on the onside,  lots of, caught a break on that one chatter.   would made an excellent ending, but in all pass situation, I am not sure Andrean would of been able to keep Eastbrook out of the backfield if they sent 4 or 5 guys.   

Anyone got any video? I saw a still of the onside kick, which tells us nothing.

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4 minutes ago, Bobref said:

 

 

Anyone got any video? I saw a still of the onside kick, which tells us nothing.

I've seen no good video on the defensive touchdown.  It's sufficient to determine the pass was certainly a forward pass.  So if that was the justification for it, replay certainly proves it's a bad call.  If the justification is that it was a catch and fumble (a notion I didn't even consider watching the play live), the replay I've seen offers almost no evidence either way on that.  I was standing along the fence at the end of the field on which that play occurred so I had a good view of it.  

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1 hour ago, XStar said:

I've seen no good video on the defensive touchdown.  It's sufficient to determine the pass was certainly a forward pass.  So if that was the justification for it, replay certainly proves it's a bad call.  If the justification is that it was a catch and fumble (a notion I didn't even consider watching the play live), the replay I've seen offers almost no evidence either way on that.  I was standing along the fence at the end of the field on which that play occurred so I had a good view of it.  

It was ruled a catch and fumble.  Not saying that’s what happened, just that that’s what the ruling was.

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3 hours ago, Bobref said:

Thanks.

I watched the video of the onside kick, probably 25 times. If I were a replay official, the call on the field would stand because there is not “incontrovertible video evidence” to overturn it. But, because I have been accused - inaccurately - of being an apologist for officials, I will say this was a poorly officiated play. There were a number of errors made on the play, none of which had any bearing on the call, but which are troublesome nonetheless.

  1. First, and most egregious, the crew failed to react to what was an obvious impending onside kick. In that circumstance, the manual clearly calls for the crew to assume the “obvious short kick formation.” Instead of one official at the kickers’ 40 yd. line on the chains sideline and one on the press box sideline at the 50, as is usually the case, the Linesman and the Umpire move up, so that there is an official stationed at both the K 40 and at midfield on each sideline. This is a potentially disastrous mistake which would have earned a significant downgrade during an evaluation. Fortunately, the onside kick went directly to the Line Judge stationed at midfield, so the error did not come into play.
  2. On any kickoff, and especially when an onside kick is a possibility, the “up” officials start the play with beanbag in hand, so they are ready to mark a spot of first touching. Neither the Back Judge on the 50 nor the Line Judge at the 40 did so, which led to...
  3. The Line Judge, instead of marking the spot of first touching with his beanbag, dropped a flag instead. He then gave Signal 16, hands on both shoulders, which is the correct signal for first touching ... except when it is accompanied by a flag, in which case it signals the foul “illegal touching,” which this clearly was not.
  4. This led to confusion in reporting the situation to the Referee, with the result that nobody knew what was going on for a significant amount of time. I would have suggested that the proper sequence of signals, all by the Line Judge, should have been (1) beanbag at the spot of first touching, (2) kill the clock when the ball was possessed by Andrean, (3) signal “first touching,” pointing to the spot of the touching, and (4) point an Eastbrook recovery, since there was no question that Eastbrook would elect to take the ball at the spot of first touching.

 Bottom line, a poorly officiated play, but IMO, insufficient evidence to say it was the wrong call.

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3 hours ago, XStar said:

I've seen no good video on the defensive touchdown.  It's sufficient to determine the pass was certainly a forward pass.  So if that was the justification for it, replay certainly proves it's a bad call.  If the justification is that it was a catch and fumble (a notion I didn't even consider watching the play live), the replay I've seen offers almost no evidence either way on that.  I was standing along the fence at the end of the field on which that play occurred so I had a good view of it.  

If you can let me know approximately when this occurred during the game, I’d like to take a look at the video.

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59 minutes ago, Bobref said:

If you can let me know approximately when this occurred during the game, I’d like to take a look at the video.

It was one of the first few plays of the 2nd quarter.  Andrean would've just started going right to left on the broadcast.

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1 hour ago, Bobref said:

I watched the video of the onside kick, probably 25 times. If I were a replay official, the call on the field would stand because there is not “incontrovertible video evidence” to overturn it. But, because I have been accused - inaccurately - of being an apologist for officials, I will say this was a poorly officiated play. There were a number of errors made on the play, none of which had any bearing on the call, but which are troublesome nonetheless.

  1. First, and most egregious, the crew failed to react to what was an obvious impending onside kick. In that circumstance, the manual clearly calls for the crew to assume the “obvious short kick formation.” Instead of one official at the kickers’ 40 yd. line on the chains sideline and one on the press box sideline at the 50, as is usually the case, the Linesman and the Umpire move up, so that there is an official stationed at both the K 40 and at midfield on each sideline. This is a potentially disastrous mistake which would have earned a significant downgrade during an evaluation. Fortunately, the onside kick went directly to the Line Judge stationed at midfield, so the error did not come into play.
  2. On any kickoff, and especially when an onside kick is a possibility, the “up” officials start the play with beanbag in hand, so they are ready to mark a spot of first touching. Neither the Back Judge on the 50 nor the Line Judge at the 40 did so, which led to...
  3. The Line Judge, instead of marking the spot of first touching with his beanbag, dropped a flag instead. He then gave Signal 16, hands on both shoulders, which is the correct signal for first touching ... except when it is accompanied by a flag, in which case it signals the foul “illegal touching,” which this clearly was not.
  4. This led to confusion in reporting the situation to the Referee, with the result that nobody knew what was going on for a significant amount of time. I would have suggested that the proper sequence of signals, all by the Line Judge, should have been (1) beanbag at the spot of first touching, (2) kill the clock when the ball was possessed by Andrean, (3) signal “first touching,” pointing to the spot of the touching, and (4) point an Eastbrook recovery, since there was no question that Eastbrook would elect to take the ball at the spot of first touching.

 Bottom line, a poorly officiated play, but IMO, insufficient evidence to say it was the wrong call.

I realize it's a different standard than required to overturn a call in most replay systems, but if you were to make that call based on replay and ignore "the call on the field" I would bet that you, and most people, would say it went the required distance before Andrean touched it.

Which brings me to another point regarding replay.  If the goal is to get it right, why does the call on the field hold so much weight that it takes 100% evidence of it being wrong to be overturned?  If you view the replay and you conclude that you probably would've made a different call but only are 75-80% sure based on several replay reviews, isn't that still a better call than an official who made the call in real time based on one angle?  I guess I'd rather go with the call I'm 80% sure is right based on the best available evidence than a call I'm 80% sure is wrong just because that's what the on field official ruled first based on, usually, worse evidence than a replay would provide.  

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1 hour ago, Bobref said:

If you can let me know approximately when this occurred during the game, I’d like to take a look at the video.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fMzdpZyacpU

At around the 2:50 mark on this video is about as up close as I’ve been able to find. 

On the full game video, it’s around the 40:30 mark. 

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I've watched the game film numerous times not the WJOB replay and the ball traveled 10 yards.  Disagree with Bobref. Also on the onside kick,  the official did not throw flag immediately, but appears to be heavily influenced by EB coaching staff.  Agree with Bobref, there was a lot of confusion o that play.

Coach Nowlin makes a good point of pass rush had Andrean had ball, but EB did not stop Flesher all night.  I'd take those odds with Flesher vs their secondary with 3 timeouts.

On the fumble returned for TD,  I was standing right there, literally 3 feet from official. He called a forward pass, catch and fumble. From his angle (same as mine), it looked like the correct call.  We couldn't see the front side on the initial catch. Couldn't tell whether he bobbled it.  This is what the Andrean coaches were claiming.

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1 hour ago, XStar said:

I realize it's a different standard than required to overturn a call in most replay systems, but if you were to make that call based on replay and ignore "the call on the field" I would bet that you, and most people, would say it went the required distance before Andrean touched it.

Which brings me to another point regarding replay.  If the goal is to get it right, why does the call on the field hold so much weight that it takes 100% evidence of it being wrong to be overturned?  If you view the replay and you conclude that you probably would've made a different call but only are 75-80% sure based on several replay reviews, isn't that still a better call than an official who made the call in real time based on one angle?  I guess I'd rather go with the call I'm 80% sure is right based on the best available evidence than a call I'm 80% sure is wrong just because that's what the on field official ruled first based on, usually, worse evidence than a replay would provide.  

It’s an interesting philosophical question. I answered it that way because I know how I would feel if I were second guessed on the basis of video evidence of that quality. The Line Judge had absolutely the best view of anyone in the entire stadium on that play. As a semistate level official, I am not inclined to second guess him on the strength of a press box level video. Hence my invocation of the “incontrovertible video evidence” standard. 

At the NFL or D-1 levels, however, where the video replay capabilities are far better, I can tell you based on my conversations with actual replay officials, the standard is quite different. Regardless of what they say, if the replay official thinks he had a better look at the play than the on-field official, he’s going to make what he thinks is the right call. The bottom line is, should be, and always will be “get the call right.”

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