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1A: Lafayette Central Catholic (11-3) vs Indianapolis Lutheran (13-0)


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1A: Lafayette Central Catholic (11-3) vs Indianapolis Lutheran (13-0)  

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  1. 1. Who ya got?

    • Lafayette Central Catholic
      32
    • Indianapolis Lutheran
      74


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29 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

So if the 2019 season was supposed to be a 'rebuilding year' for Lafayette Central Catholic what are now the expectations for the 2020 football season?  Undefeated and another 1A state championship are to be expected.  

Then what?  The success factor bumps the Knights back up to 2A where they languish for a few years.  However this gives 1A government school programs like Sheridan, Pioneer, South Adams, Southwood, North Vermillion, West Washington a chance to steal the ring for a couple seasons.  Then the yo-yo starts again.  

 

 

2020 is also likely to a rebuilding/reload year as this year team had a lot of seniors in the spotlight roles.   

BTW, I think you aren't giving those government schools enough credit.  Pioneer didn't need Success Factor to make three straight trips to LOS, win back-to-back 1A titles, and hand LCC a couple of its worst defeats in the last couple of decades.  Sheridan didn't need Success Factor to take Hoosier Conference titles from 2A and 3A schools and three-peat right before LCC took their turn at LOS.

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9 hours ago, Muda69 said:

So if the 2019 season was supposed to be a 'rebuilding year' for Lafayette Central Catholic what are now the expectations for the 2020 football season?  Undefeated and another 1A state championship are to be expected.  

Then what?  The success factor bumps the Knights back up to 2A where they languish for a few years.  However this gives 1A government school programs like Sheridan, Pioneer, South Adams, Southwood, North Vermillion, West Washington a chance to steal the ring for a couple seasons.  Then the yo-yo starts again.  

 

 

These schools, at least the ones that actually play LCC or even private schools, have fared quite well against them, despite all of the hyperbole, even without the Success Factor.  As a matter of fact, of the teams on this list that LCC HAS played, LCC is 9-12 or just a bit over 42% success rate in 21 games.  Here are the numbers/stats/facts using the schools that you named:

Southwood

  • ·         Never faced a private school at least since 1994
  • ·         Lost to Adams Central 8 of 10 games in tourney in roughly two decades of 1A games.  It's not LCC that Southwood has to worry about; it's Adams Central.

Pioneer

  • ·         Played LCC in tourney play 13 seasons
  • ·         Pioneer has eliminated LCC 7 of the 13 meetings in post season (best win 70-7, worst loss 47-6)
  • ·         Pioneer is also 3-1 in regular season against LCC

Sheridan

  • ·         Has played the most games against private schools in tourney

o   1-2 against Guerin (best win 41-7, worst loss 42-13)

o   2-2 against LCC (best win 34-14, worst loss 17-0)

o   2-2 against Ritter (best win 48-21, worst loss 41-26

o   0-1 against Lutheran (62-14)

o   Teams most likely to have knocked Sheridan out of tourney

§  Tri-West – 3 times

§  Ritter – 2 times

§  LCC – 2 times

§  Guerin – 2 times

§  Franton – 2 times

§  Clinton Prairie – 2 times

§  Tri-Central  - 2 times

§  Monroe Central – 2 times

South Adams

  • ·         Like Southwood above, never faced a private school at least since 1994
  • ·         Lost to Adams Central 7 of 7 games in tourney
  • ·         Lost 3 times to Woodlan
  • ·         Lost 4 times to Churubusco

 Between what has happened to South Adams and Southwood, it looks teams have more to worry about from Adams Central than LCC in that neck of the woods.

 

North Vermillion

  • ·         Like Sheridan, has played several games against private schools in tourney

o   3-1 against Lutheran (best wins 55-37/37-19, worst loss 56-21)

o   1-0 against Covenant Christian (best win 37-21)

o   0-2 against Scecina (worst loss 27-0/35-8)

o   Teams most likely to have knocked North Vermillion out of tourney

§  Fountain Central – 4 times

§  Attica – 4 times

§  Rockville – 3 times

§  Riverton Park – 2 times

§  Turkey Run – 2 times

§  Pioneer – 2 times

§  Scecina – 2 times

West Washington

  • ·         Like Sheridan and North Vermillion, has played several games against private schools in tourney

o   1-3 against Lutheran (best win 42-12, worst loss 49-0)

o   1-0 against Scecina (best win 37-21)

o   Teams most likely to have knocked North Vermillion out of tourney

§  Linton-Stockton – 4 times

§  Lutheran – 3 times

§  Knightstown – 3 times

                                  §  Milan – 3 times

 

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10 hours ago, foxbat said:

These schools, at least the ones that actually play LCC or even private schools, have fared quite well against them, despite all of the hyperbole, even without the Success Factor.  As a matter of fact, of the teams on this list that LCC HAS played, LCC is 9-12 or just a bit over 42% success rate in 21 games.  Here are the numbers/stats/facts using the schools that you named:

Southwood

  • ·         Never faced a private school at least since 1994
  • ·         Lost to Adams Central 8 of 10 games in tourney in roughly two decades of 1A games.  It's not LCC that Southwood has to worry about; it's Adams Central.

Pioneer

  • ·         Played LCC in tourney play 13 seasons
  • ·         Pioneer has eliminated LCC 7 of the 13 meetings in post season (best win 70-7, worst loss 47-6)
  • ·         Pioneer is also 3-1 in regular season against LCC

Sheridan

  • ·         Has played the most games against private schools in tourney

o   1-2 against Guerin (best win 41-7, worst loss 42-13)

o   2-2 against LCC (best win 34-14, worst loss 17-0)

o   2-2 against Ritter (best win 48-21, worst loss 41-26

o   0-1 against Lutheran (62-14)

o   Teams most likely to have knocked Sheridan out of tourney

§  Tri-West – 3 times

§  Ritter – 2 times

§  LCC – 2 times

§  Guerin – 2 times

§  Franton – 2 times

§  Clinton Prairie – 2 times

§  Tri-Central  - 2 times

§  Monroe Central – 2 times

South Adams

  • ·         Like Southwood above, never faced a private school at least since 1994
  • ·         Lost to Adams Central 7 of 7 games in tourney
  • ·         Lost 3 times to Woodlan
  • ·         Lost 4 times to Churubusco

 

 Between what has happened to South Adams and Southwood, it looks teams have more to worry about from Adams Central than LCC in that neck of the woods.

 

North Vermillion

  • ·         Like Sheridan, has played several games against private schools in tourney

o   3-1 against Lutheran (best wins 55-37/37-19, worst loss 56-21)

o   1-0 against Covenant Christian (best win 37-21)

o   0-2 against Scecina (worst loss 27-0/35-8)

o   Teams most likely to have knocked North Vermillion out of tourney

§  Fountain Central – 4 times

§  Attica – 4 times

§  Rockville – 3 times

§  Riverton Park – 2 times

§  Turkey Run – 2 times

§  Pioneer – 2 times

§  Scecina – 2 times

West Washington

  • ·         Like Sheridan and North Vermillion, has played several games against private schools in tourney

o   1-3 against Lutheran (best win 42-12, worst loss 49-0)

o   1-0 against Scecina (best win 37-21)

o   Teams most likely to have knocked North Vermillion out of tourney

§  Linton-Stockton – 4 times

§  Lutheran – 3 times

§  Knightstown – 3 times

                                  §  Milan 

Talent comes and goes in 1A..... it is most likly more to do with Conference affiliation then whether a school is public or private.... Sheridan in the Rangeline then Hoosier.... Lcc credits the Hoosier as well.... Adam's Central may correlate their domination over South Adam's with Conf affiliation as well?  I wonder what Pioneers tourney record would have been had they joined the Hoosier Conf instead of Sheridan?

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11 hours ago, foxbat said:

These schools, at least the ones that actually play LCC or even private schools, have fared quite well against them, despite all of the hyperbole, even without the Success Factor.  As a matter of fact, of the teams on this list that LCC HAS played, LCC is 9-12 or just a bit over 42% success rate in 21 games.  Here are the numbers/stats/facts using the schools that you named:

Southwood

  • ·         Never faced a private school at least since 1994
  • ·         Lost to Adams Central 8 of 10 games in tourney in roughly two decades of 1A games.  It's not LCC that Southwood has to worry about; it's Adams Central.

Pioneer

  • ·         Played LCC in tourney play 13 seasons
  • ·         Pioneer has eliminated LCC 7 of the 13 meetings in post season (best win 70-7, worst loss 47-6)
  • ·         Pioneer is also 3-1 in regular season against LCC

Sheridan

  • ·         Has played the most games against private schools in tourney

o   1-2 against Guerin (best win 41-7, worst loss 42-13)

o   2-2 against LCC (best win 34-14, worst loss 17-0)

o   2-2 against Ritter (best win 48-21, worst loss 41-26

o   0-1 against Lutheran (62-14)

o   Teams most likely to have knocked Sheridan out of tourney

§  Tri-West – 3 times

§  Ritter – 2 times

§  LCC – 2 times

§  Guerin – 2 times

§  Franton – 2 times

§  Clinton Prairie – 2 times

§  Tri-Central  - 2 times

§  Monroe Central – 2 times

South Adams

  • ·         Like Southwood above, never faced a private school at least since 1994
  • ·         Lost to Adams Central 7 of 7 games in tourney
  • ·         Lost 3 times to Woodlan
  • ·         Lost 4 times to Churubusco

 

 Between what has happened to South Adams and Southwood, it looks teams have more to worry about from Adams Central than LCC in that neck of the woods.

 

North Vermillion

  • ·         Like Sheridan, has played several games against private schools in tourney

o   3-1 against Lutheran (best wins 55-37/37-19, worst loss 56-21)

o   1-0 against Covenant Christian (best win 37-21)

o   0-2 against Scecina (worst loss 27-0/35-8)

o   Teams most likely to have knocked North Vermillion out of tourney

§  Fountain Central – 4 times

§  Attica – 4 times

§  Rockville – 3 times

§  Riverton Park – 2 times

§  Turkey Run – 2 times

§  Pioneer – 2 times

§  Scecina – 2 times

West Washington

  • ·         Like Sheridan and North Vermillion, has played several games against private schools in tourney

o   1-3 against Lutheran (best win 42-12, worst loss 49-0)

o   1-0 against Scecina (best win 37-21)

o   Teams most likely to have knocked North Vermillion out of tourney

§  Linton-Stockton – 4 times

§  Lutheran – 3 times

§  Knightstown – 3 times

                                  §  Milan – 3 times

 

How long in minutes or hours did it take you to compile, correlate, and display that data?  Very impressive.

 

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40 minutes ago, BendNotBreak said:

Talent comes and goes in 1A..... it is most likly more to do with Conference affiliation then whether a school is public or private.... Sheridan in the Rangeline then Hoosier.... Lcc credits the Hoosier as well.... Adam's Central may correlate their domination over South Adam's with Conf affiliation as well?  I wonder what Pioneers tourney record would have been had they joined the Hoosier Conf instead of Sheridan?

Yet Sheridan fled the Hoosier for the Hoosier Heartland Conference several years ago.  Perhaps the Blackhawk faithful thought slumming in the HHC like LCC did would increase their chances at a ring.  Doesn't appear to have worked.  What is better, playing the likes of West Lafayette, Rensselaer, Tipton. Twin Lakes, etc.  during the regular season or the likes of Clinton Central, Clinton Prairie, Carroll, and Taylor?

 

 

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1 hour ago, Muda69 said:

Yet Sheridan fled the Hoosier for the Hoosier Heartland Conference several years ago.  Perhaps the Blackhawk faithful thought slumming in the HHC like LCC did would increase their chances at a ring.  Doesn't appear to have worked.  What is better, playing the likes of West Lafayette, Rensselaer, Tipton. Twin Lakes, etc.  during the regular season or the likes of Clinton Central, Clinton Prairie, Carroll, and Taylor?

 

 

Coach Wright was outvoted and the rest of Sheridan's Varsity coaches put up a stand and that led to them getting out of the Hoosier and into the Heartland.   It was not a football decision I can 100% promise you that.  

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4 hours ago, BendNotBreak said:

Dont forget Ritter...... 7 times they made it to the final game in 1A......

Ritter.       3 wins

Gov schools.  4 wins 

Gov schools hold ther own jus fine in 1A thank you very much.......

Government schools (not named Sheridan for obvious reasons) that get a crop of once in a generation athletes hold their own yes.  They have to load up and push all of their chips to the middle of the table 1-2 times per decade.

Much easier to “rebuild” at LCC, Lutheran, etc...

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1 hour ago, Muda69 said:

How long in minutes or hours did it take you to compile, correlate, and display that data?  Very impressive.

 

Not as long as it might appear perhaps a half hour to run through all those teams ... also mainly because I'm not as familiar with the schools in the Southern part of the state like North Vermillion and West Washington outside of specific seasons.   The biggest thing slowing me down is that I type with four fingers and don't know the home keys.  In reality, knowing the history makes the idea/premise fairly easy to have figured out and John Harrell's site makes it a breeze to find data to support/refute things that tend to be made with more emotional appeal.  The way he has things organized makes it even easier to have looked for this data ... at least back to 1994 which gives us a couple decades plus of points.  This is actually something that was already on my radar as I had a discussion with someone last week who said that LCC was "picking on" county schools and he specifically named Lewis Cass and Pioneer.  As I pointed out, Pioneer easily holds its own against LCC with Pioneer not only leading the series, but leading the tourney series, and also having won the last three contests and dealing LCC one of its biggest defeats 70-7.  In the case of Cass, Cass is 0-2 against LCC, but in the same years that LCC beat Cass, Pioneer also beat Cass.  Matter of fact, I believe, in a quick look on Harrell's site, that Pioneer leads the series with Cass 7-6 although they've not met in tourney play.

1 hour ago, BendNotBreak said:

Foxbat...  is head of Lcc's push for incorperating analytics into the sports programs..... 😉

PbF344B.jpg

Seriously, I'm just a guy in the stands who enjoys an analytical and strategic approach to the game/sport.  Been doing it for many years ... all the way back when I was coaching youth baseball in college in the late-1980s and early 1990s.  As for LCC incorporating into their sports programs, I have no idea, but I do know that one of my project teams at Purdue will be doing a presentation on it this week and I'm very much looking forward to seeing it.

 

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1 hour ago, Muda69 said:

Yet Sheridan fled the Hoosier for the Hoosier Heartland Conference several years ago.  Perhaps the Blackhawk faithful thought slumming in the HHC like LCC did would increase their chances at a ring.  Doesn't appear to have worked.  What is better, playing the likes of West Lafayette, Rensselaer, Tipton. Twin Lakes, etc.  during the regular season or the likes of Clinton Central, Clinton Prairie, Carroll, and Taylor?

 

 

 

2 hours ago, BendNotBreak said:

Talent comes and goes in 1A..... it is most likly more to do with Conference affiliation then whether a school is public or private.... Sheridan in the Rangeline then Hoosier.... Lcc credits the Hoosier as well.... Adam's Central may correlate their domination over South Adam's with Conf affiliation as well?  I wonder what Pioneers tourney record would have been had they joined the Hoosier Conf instead of Sheridan?

 

26 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

Coach Wright was outvoted and the rest of Sheridan's Varsity coaches put up a stand and that led to them getting out of the Hoosier and into the Heartland.   It was not a football decision I can 100% promise you that.  

I'm my honest opinion, and solely that as I'm not in the Sheridan locker rooms, I think Sheridan made a mistake leaving the Hoosier Conference.  I also don't see how that move equates to increasing the chances for deeper run unless it's an argument about potential injuries in the Hoosier grind.  They end up playing the same level of competition in the tourney regardless of the conference, so the Hoosier puts a little meat on the bones.

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1 minute ago, foxbat said:

 

 

I'm my honest opinion, and solely that as I'm not in the Sheridan locker rooms, I think Sheridan made a mistake leaving the Hoosier Conference.  I also don't see how that move equates to increasing the chances for deeper run unless it's an argument about potential injuries in the Hoosier grind.  They end up playing the same level of competition in the tourney regardless of the conference, so the Hoosier puts a little meat on the bones.

Sheridan had always been a traditional opponent for Hamilton Heights both due to proximity and conference affiliation over the years. Once they left the Hoosier and HH joined, we stopped playing them shortly thereafter, I don't know the reason, but I miss it.

There's something special about witnessing a legend in action.

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Sheridan leaving was because of Basketball, Soccer, Volleyball, Track and Baseball coaches 

Some of those guys were on Coach Wright staff, some voted with him to stay, others crossed the picket line !!  😂

I run into Coach Wright throughout the off season at various things, and he always brings up how much he misses the Hoosier Conference

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1 hour ago, Coach Nowlin said:

Coach Wright was outvoted and the rest of Sheridan's Varsity coaches put up a stand and that led to them getting out of the Hoosier and into the Heartland.   It was not a football decision I can 100% promise you that.  

Coach Wright knows all too well...  long ago.... what the data is now confirming.

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1 hour ago, Coach Nowlin said:

Sheridan leaving was because of Basketball, Soccer, Volleyball, Track and Baseball coaches 

Some of those guys were on Coach Wright staff, some voted with him to stay, others crossed the picket line !!  😂

I run into Coach Wright throughout the off season at various things, and he always brings up how much he misses the Hoosier Conference

It was nice seeing Coach Wright up on the big screen at LOS on Friday ... albeit as a fan and not roaming the sideline.

 

1 hour ago, gonzoron said:

Sheridan had always been a traditional opponent for Hamilton Heights both due to proximity and conference affiliation over the years. Once they left the Hoosier and HH joined, we stopped playing them shortly thereafter, I don't know the reason, but I miss it.

There's something special about witnessing a legend in action.

Got that opportunity at the semi-state game back in 2011.  Took my son, who was five at the time, down to the field after the game just so he could see Coach Wright up close.  Had to explain to my 15-year old daughter, who really doesn't follow follow football all that much, who he was when they showed him up on the big screen on Friday.  The word "legend" was the first descriptor.

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2 hours ago, Temptation said:

Government schools (not named Sheridan for obvious reasons) that get a crop of once in a generation athletes hold their own yes.  They have to load up and push all of their chips to the middle of the table 1-2 times per decade.

Much easier to “rebuild” at LCC, Lutheran, etc...

You may be painting with a broad brush by tossing Lutheran in there, but the numbers don't bear out ... especially for results as that is what ultimately counts.

You stated LCC and Lutheran.  Harrell's shows Lutheran's full-schedule games since 2006.  In that time, in 14 years, Lutheran has been eliminated from the tournament by 11 public opponents, 12 counting Indiana School of the Deaf, comprising 9 different programs.  Regardless of "reloading" capability, Lutheran still gets eliminated by public programs on a fairly regular basis.  Their success has also been clumped too.

LCC's a bit different, but even then, you're also looking at the last decade or so of LCC's playing history for a school that has six decades of history including the scheduled, but 11th-hour reprieve, shutdown in 1990. 

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15 minutes ago, foxbat said:

You may be painting with a broad brush by tossing Lutheran in there, but the numbers don't bear out ... especially for results as that is what ultimately counts.

You stated LCC and Lutheran.  Harrell's shows Lutheran's full-schedule games since 2006.  In that time, in 14 years, Lutheran has been eliminated from the tournament by 11 public opponents, 12 counting Indiana School of the Deaf, comprising 9 different programs.  Regardless of "reloading" capability, Lutheran still gets eliminated by public programs on a fairly regular basis.  Their success has also been clumped too.

LCC's a bit different, but even then, you're also looking at the last decade or so of LCC's playing history for a school that has six decades of history including the scheduled, but 11th-hour reprieve, shutdown in 1990. 

Lutheran is here to stay.  The trends indicate the gap between the haves and have nots is growing annually.  I used Lutheran simply because they played Friday.

Others (Traders Point, Covenant Christian) will continue to ascend while small public schools will have to bide their time and build towards a run every so often.

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1 hour ago, Temptation said:

Lutheran is here to stay.  The trends indicate the gap between the haves and have nots is growing annually.  I used Lutheran simply because they played Friday.

Others (Traders Point, Covenant Christian) will continue to ascend while small public schools will have to bide their time and build towards a run every so often.

Bishop Noll?  South Bend St. Joe?  Culver Academies?  Faith Christian? Heritage Christian?

Or perhaps some of those have like Carmel?  West Lafayette? 

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59 minutes ago, foxbat said:

Bishop Noll?  South Bend St. Joe?  Culver Academies?  Faith Christian? Heritage Christian?

Or perhaps some of those have like Carmel?  West Lafayette? 

Was referring to 1A, specifically...especially those in communities with close proximity to metropolitan areas.

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10 minutes ago, Temptation said:

Was referring to 1A, specifically...especially those in communities with close proximity to metropolitan areas.

Faith Christian is 1A and also in Lafayette with LCC.

Edit: Not to mention St. James Lutheran High School.

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3 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

Anderson Prep Academy. 

I just wanted to say something so I can get my post count up.

I was going to include charters, but code not to as I'm not exactly sure where they fall into the mix of the discussion at this point given their hybrid nature.  Kind of best of both worlds / worst of both worlds tendencies.  School of the Deaf also probably looks more like a charter/magnet than either public or private.

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