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Officiating in the Tournament


Bobref

Officiating in the Tournament   

20 members have voted

  1. 1. Officiating in the Tournament

    • The IHSAA should use 7-man officiating crews from the Regional level onward in the Tournament
    • The IHSAA should continue to use 5-man crews in the Tournament, just as in the regular season.


Question

While we don’t have the numbers to use 7, or even 6-man crews on Friday nights, by the time we get to the Regional level, we have adequate numbers of qualified officials to transition to 7-man crews. A number of states do this. Indiana also does this in other sports, e.g., baseball. In Major League Baseball they add two more umpires during the playoffs, so it certainly is not without precedent. Would you favor this, and why or why not?

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I strongly favor the expansion of crews to 7 from the Regional level onward in the Tournament, for several reasons, both obvious and subtle.

First, this sort of increased officiating presence is standard practice in some other sports. In basketball, they used 3 officials in their tournament long before it became standard in the regular season. It’s also been done for many years in baseball.

Second, there really is no dispute that a 7-man crew provides superior coverage compared to the traditional 5-man crew. The Tournament is the IHSAA’s showcase event. Unfortunately, there have been a few embarrassing officiating failures in the past, including in the Finals. Better officiating coverage won’t completely eliminate mistakes, but should reduce their number.

Finally, there’s a reason you probably haven’t considered, but which takes on increasing significance these days. Having increased opportunities for officials in the Tournament is a retention tool. That there is a shortage of football officials in Indiana is beyond dispute. Efforts to remedy that situation focus on recruiting new officials, and that’s appropriate. But retention of officials is equally part of that equation. We have well-qualified officials who are getting out of officiating because they are frustrated by what they perceive as barriers to advancement in the Tournament. There are 24 Regionals that currently use 120 officials. Expanding to 7 would provide Tournament opportunities for an additional 48 officials who would otherwise be sitting home that weekend. That’s 48 more officials who are reaching a level they otherwise would not. Increased opportunities in the Tournament provide a powerful incentive to stay in officiating.

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IHSAA Baseball tournament uses 3 at the sectional level all the thru the state finals. Softball uses 2 at the sectional level and goes to three at the regional level. Softball does not have enough officials to use three in the sectional. More officials than you might think work both softball and baseball tournaments. For instance my sectional partner turned down a fifth state baseball final in an attempt to get his first softball final. 

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1 hour ago, Impartial_Observer said:

IHSAA Baseball tournament uses 3 at the sectional level all the thru the state finals. Softball uses 2 at the sectional level and goes to three at the regional level. Softball does not have enough officials to use three in the sectional. More officials than you might think work both softball and baseball tournaments. For instance my sectional partner turned down a fifth state baseball final in an attempt to get his first softball final. 

We use 4 officials in Baseball from the Regional level and beyond....  I assume that that is what you were saying IO.

And yes, I am all in favor of using 7 officials in FB beyond the Sectional championships.  So long as the crew involved is allowed to submit officials that they would be most comfortable working with.  The last thing I need is an over officious A-Hole 'assigned' to me on a Friday night that is totally meaningful.  

That means ANY and EVERY Friday night!

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1 hour ago, Yuccaguy said:

And yes, I am all in favor of using 7 officials in FB beyond the Sectional championships.  So long as the crew involved is allowed to submit officials that they would be most comfortable working with.  The last thing I need is an over officious A-Hole 'assigned' to me on a Friday night that is totally meaningful. 

The process that comes to mind is you take the 120 officials who worked a sectional final, and create an approved list of all of those officials with, say, at least 5 yrs. of tournament experience, and let each Regional crew choose 2 from that list.

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14 hours ago, Bobref said:

The process that comes to mind is you take the 120 officials who worked a sectional final, and create an approved list of all of those officials with, say, at least 5 yrs. of tournament experience, and let each Regional crew choose 2 from that list.

I am fine with that 

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There would be some logistical challenges with going to 7-man because coverage and positioning are very different with 2 extra officials on the field. Since we don't know until the Monday  before the game which crews are working that week how do you prepare them to work a mechanic they may have never worked? Most of the states that expand later in the tournament will have crews who worked 6 or 7-man during the season at least some games. They also assign individuals to playoff crews rather than advance existing crews so they have more flexibility in picking the officials who are familiar with the expanded mechanics.

Ultimately I still think it would be better coverage. At a minimum you could have the original 5 members do what they normally do so we still have coverage and the extra 2 officials focus on their zone. The biggest advantage for the additional 2 officials are goal line/pylon coverage and special teams plays. I support this 100% and am confident we'd figure out something for the logistical challenges.

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7 minutes ago, JustRules said:

There would be some logistical challenges with going to 7-man because coverage and positioning are very different with 2 extra officials on the field. Since we don't know until the Monday  before the game which crews are working that week how do you prepare them to work a mechanic they may have never worked? Most of the states that expand later in the tournament will have crews who worked 6 or 7-man during the season at least some games. They also assign individuals to playoff crews rather than advance existing crews so they have more flexibility in picking the officials who are familiar with the expanded mechanics.

Ultimately I still think it would be better coverage. At a minimum you could have the original 5 members do what they normally do so we still have coverage and the extra 2 officials focus on their zone. The biggest advantage for the additional 2 officials are goal line/pylon coverage and special teams plays. I support this 100% and am confident we'd figure out something for the logistical challenges.

Historically, I was very concerned with this issue. Then, in 2017, I was selected to work the North/South all star game in July. I was going to work back judge. I had never worked 7 man mechanics before, let alone as a back judge. And I hadn't worked as a 5 man back judge in many years. But I was pleasantly surprised at how easy it was to pick up the 7 man mechanics. There are some different coverages and keys, but there are also significant reductions in responsibilities simply because you have two extra officials. From that experience, I concluded that the advantages of working 7 officials greatly outweigh the potential complications of asking people to pick up some mechanics with which they are unfamiliar in the week before the game. Plainly speaking, it's just not that difficult.

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2 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Historically, I was very concerned with this issue. Then, in 2017, I was selected to work the North/South all star game in July. I was going to work back judge. I had never worked 7 man mechanics before, let alone as a back judge. And I hadn't worked as a 5 man back judge in many years. But I was pleasantly surprised at how easy it was to pick up the 7 man mechanics. There are some different coverages and keys, but there are also significant reductions in responsibilities simply because you have two extra officials. From that experience, I concluded that the advantages of working 7 officials greatly outweigh the potential complications of asking people to pick up some mechanics with which they are unfamiliar in the week before the game. Plainly speaking, it's just not that difficult.

It depends on what happens and the intensity and implications of the north south all star game are vastly different than a state final game. For example, a blocked FG, what does everyone do? Ball snapped at the B6 where do the deep wings go? Then you have a false start by the offense, does that change anything? Sideline catch/no catch communication and spots on long runs can also difficult if you've never done it.

Back judge is probably the easiest transition because you do lose responsibilities on keys and you get the most help with the deep wings. But your keys are very different. In 5-man you have the widest receiver on the strong side (or press box if formation balanced) and widest 2 if you have trips. In 7-man you have the #2 receiver on the strong side (or press box if balanced) and #3 in trips. If you stick with your normal 5-man keys out of habit and the other wings watch who they are supposed to watch your guy will not be covered at the snap. If nothing happens to him nobody would know but it could be a big miss if he holds on the edge at the snap (assume TE most of the time) or a DB/LB holds him off the line trying to run his route. That's why I said a possible approach is the two wings and BJ watch what they normally watch and the deep wings focus on their zone. It's not optimal coverage but it's better than someone not being covered at all.

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On 11/24/2019 at 12:22 PM, Impartial_Observer said:

IHSAA Baseball tournament uses 3 at the sectional level all the thru the state finals. Softball uses 2 at the sectional level and goes to three at the regional level. Softball does not have enough officials to use three in the sectional. More officials than you might think work both softball and baseball tournaments. For instance my sectional partner turned down a fifth state baseball final in an attempt to get his first softball final. 

Baseball goes to 3 at the sectional level and they haven’t worked 3 man mechanics usually the whole year then baseball goes to 4 man at the state finals and some have never worked 4 man

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On 11/26/2019 at 2:59 PM, Huge Football Fan said:

Baseball goes to 3 at the sectional level and they haven’t worked 3 man mechanics usually the whole year then baseball goes to 4 man at the state finals and some have never worked 4 man

Again....for clarification:   Baseball goes to 4 man mechanics beginning at the Regional level and beyond.   3 man mechanics are implemented at the Sectional level only.

Both mechanics are foriegn to most Baseball officials, because they do not work either during the regular season.   

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1 hour ago, Yuccaguy said:

Again....for clarification:   Baseball goes to 4 man mechanics beginning at the Regional level and beyond.   3 man mechanics are implemented at the Sectional level only.

Both mechanics are foriegn to most Baseball officials, because they do not work either during the regular season.   

Does baseball, or any of the sports that expand the number of officials in the tournament, require special certification, on those mechanics, to qualify for the tournament? Or are those mechanics covered in the testing process?

I ask, because speaking to a Florida official a few years ago, I was told that they go from 5 to 7 as soon as the playoffs start. They, of course, can do that because they have a (sensitive word coming.....) qualifier for their tournament. In order to work the tournament, they have to be certified in 7 man mechanics. 

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8 hours ago, SL816 said:

Does baseball, or any of the sports that expand the number of officials in the tournament, require special certification, on those mechanics, to qualify for the tournament? Or are those mechanics covered in the testing process?

I ask, because speaking to a Florida official a few years ago, I was told that they go from 5 to 7 as soon as the playoffs start. They, of course, can do that because they have a (sensitive word coming.....) qualifier for their tournament. In order to work the tournament, they have to be certified in 7 man mechanics. 

The softball certification clinics, required every other year for tournament applicants, focus pretty much soley on 3 man mechanics. I would assume baseball does something similar. I usually attend a certification clinic every year, it has been my observation at the clinics I attend the vast majority of the guys/gals at these clinics will never work beyond the sectional level, and could probably benefit more from throwing some 2 man stuff in the mix. Add into the mix the number of guys/gals who just umpire for beer and cigarette money who don't apply for a tournament so don't attend anything, much less a certification clinic, and it's not hard to understand why you hear the stories you hear regarding officiating in the bat and ball sports.

When I was coaching I only hired what I deemed competent officials at home. It just makes your life much easier, in most cases they were state finals officials. But when we traveled, especially south, we often times got really bad officials. I never felt like we got homered, I just felt like they were in many cases incompetent. Many times I questioned whether or not they even had a softball license. They're not hard to spot, you see them when they're walking to the field and their partner is pointing locations of the field while he's talking to him. Poor rules knowledge, you might be amazed what I managed to talk umpires into. ***Note to coaches*** it pays to know the rules and know when the official doesn't. 

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On 12/4/2019 at 11:26 PM, SL816 said:

Does baseball, or any of the sports that expand the number of officials in the tournament, require special certification, on those mechanics, to qualify for the tournament? Or are those mechanics covered in the testing process?

I ask, because speaking to a Florida official a few years ago, I was told that they go from 5 to 7 as soon as the playoffs start. They, of course, can do that because they have a (sensitive word coming.....) qualifier for their tournament. In order to work the tournament, they have to be certified in 7 man mechanics. 

The expanded mechanics are NOT included within the testing process.  

It is on the individual associations to cover any/all mechanics beyond 2 man for use in the tournament.

Officials are listed as 'independent contractors' and in all circumstances are treated as such.  For lack of a better term, the state issues "unfunded mandates" and assumes that the mechanisms for officiating are being taught correctly. 

Personally, a few years ago I got into a heated conversation with a fellow official who developed his own 'personalized' 3 man mechanics.  I told him, that that is NOT what the state mandates, nor is it what our association teaches!  If officials from the associations that I am involved with were assigned with his officials, they would all request reassignment unless and until he complied with the NFHS mechanics listed within their publications.

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