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Big 8 will be down to 6 teams.


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6 hours ago, Screagle said:

YMCA I disagree with Jasper over the hill. They have a couple.500 seasons and their done?  

Just asking....so are GS fans now of the belief that regular season SOS is beneficial? 

Beneficial...but not 100% necessary. The comferemce has repeated proven just that.

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I think the 2015 really put a can in all of that when they went toe to toe with chatard.  Heritage hills has long let that ship sail too since that jay cutler state championship

 

of which. Every time I look at that HH season i just struggle to comprehend how they were able to win all those games. What that team did will likely never be repeated in terms of how big of a mountain they climbed 

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17 hours ago, Titan32 said:

Why do you see Jasper as a loser here?  Are you saying they have always enjoyed being a big fish in a little pond?

Since about 2008, until just the past year or so, the Cats were a big fish in a mostly weaker Big 8...and their present mediocrity (by Jasper standards) partly stems from that. When they had their successes in the 90’s to mid 00’s, the conference was much more competitive with 3-4 quality teams. And Jerry Brewer may have had a hand in that success as well...

So Jasper has a lot to gain if this merger happens. They need that competition, as do the other upper tier Big 8 teams.

 

Edited by SEAL_63
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12 hours ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

Now this is just my humble opinion but the last few years I personally believe are something to be of a bigger picture so to speak.  I have the gut feeling jasper is over the hill already and this  change will make it more difficult for them to comeback to being the top dog.  Just my opinion

I have to respectfully disagree. The Jasper program as whole is about the same as it’s always been...and I think many HH and SR folks would agree with me. They still have excellent numbers, produce the same quality athletes, and are always well conditioned. The missing piece has been on-field results. IMO, they are a change in coaching philosophy away from being back to where they were. And with Tony Lewis’ track record, I look for that to be in the near future.

Does this mean they would be the top dog consistently in a merged Big PAC? Or even the Big 8 alone? Absolutely not. And that’s a good thing. This potential conference would be way too good with GS and HH as obvious contenders and VL/Boonville fully capable.

 

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On ‎2‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 4:23 PM, Titan32 said:

This particular proposal is only for football and won’t effect anything with the other sports.  I assume the Big 8 will stay intact for the other sports and will have to look for a replacement for Mt. Carmel in all of the other sports schedules.

If this passes  since Mount Carmel only has to leave because of Illinois adding districts if the Big 8 was ok they could stay in the Big 8 if they wanted to because most of their football schedule will be filled with district opponents they might not need a conference for football.

 

Personally I don't understand the football only thing if your going to do this just move GS and HH in the Big 8, Add Tecumseh back into the PAC and try to steal Perry Central from the PLAC to get the PAC back to 8 teams.

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15 hours ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

I think the 2015 really put a can in all of that when they went toe to toe with chatard.

I think standing toe to toe is great but it’s all about winning. Let’s be honest, GS string of sectional championships came when SIAC rep Memorial was middle to the bottom of the SIAC and when HH was down in terms of what they normally are. No question they had a great run and a great team.  And if you are saying HH ship has sailed and Jasper is over the hill, what’s that say about GS that has struggled the past 3 post seasons on home turf?  

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Woah never said HH ship has sailed. Only saying that the PAC has done its best to prove it doesn’t always need a tough SOS to have great success.  

As for the chatard game, a lot of the grid will say weather is the only thing that stop GS from making it to LOS. Other than that, that team proved that SoS isn’t as important as having a quality team top to bottom. 

 

I think you are getting bent out of shape with my comment about jasper. But it’s okay if you disagree. I just personally feel that jasper would benefit more from filling its schedule with non conference games.  I am past all this though. Not really something I want to argue for or against. Just an opinion of mine ya know? 

Edited by DumfriesYMCA
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2 hours ago, Screagle said:

I think standing toe to toe is great but it’s all about winning. Let’s be honest, GS string of sectional championships came when SIAC rep Memorial was middle to the bottom of the SIAC and when HH was down in terms of what they normally are. No question they had a great run and a great team.  And if you are saying HH ship has sailed and Jasper is over the hill, what’s that say about GS that has struggled the past 3 post seasons on home turf?  

Thanks to the dynamic duo right ( I’m a big fan).  Let’s see what the next 6 bring.  Looks like GS and Memorial are tied in the Hart era...with GS owning the most lopsided victory.

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7 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

Thanks to the dynamic duo right ( I’m a big fan).  Let’s see what the next 6 bring.  Looks like GS and Memorial are tied in the Hart era...with GS owning the most lopsided victory.

 Memorial had the team of an era for not only Memorial but for Evansville in general...how many other 3A teams in the state beat GS in those 3 seasons? The consistency of GS over the 7 year span is pretty amazing....playing nobody right?

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PAC teams have been hearing the schedule arguments forever. From 2000-2007 Heritage Hills won  7 sectionals, 7 regionals, 2 semi states and 1 state title and in the 8 year period we had regular season wins over the  2001 4A state champ Jasper, 2002 2A state runner-up Southridge, 2005 2A state runner-up North Posey and 2007 2A state runner up Southridge yet we still heard that schedule argument over and over .

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23 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

 Memorial had the team of an era for not only Memorial but for Evansville in general...how many other 3A teams in the state beat GS in those 3 seasons? The consistency of GS over the 7 year span is pretty amazing....playing nobody right?

“Would beat” This new edit timer they have turned on is killing an old fart like me that makes lots of mistakes and doesn’t catch it until the third proof read LOL.  It’s as bad as twitter!

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YMCA misread the HH part. My apology, but you can’t believe Jasper is over the hill. As dominant as a program in SW Indiana over the long haul. I’m not sure a couple .500 seasons writes them off. I think Lewis brings a new energy. Fans I talked to at Jammin n Jasper seemed excited. 

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Jasper was 8-3 in 2017. This last season they were 6-5. They were missing 5 or 6 starters by the time they got to week 3 and did not get those players back. Any Big 8 or PAC team is going to struggle with that many injuries. I don't think this indicated they are over the hill.

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I personally am not on the Tony Lewis hype train. Don’t really have too many feeling regarding him but I’m just not on that train.

 

as for jasper as a team...idk. I think more than anything I feel like the other teams around jasper are already trending in the right direction already. A case of having momentum already. 

I really shouldn’t continue arguing this just due to a lack of information about big 8 teams but something inside me tells me Vincennes is going to be better over the next 10 years than jasper.  Pure gut feeling 

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Just playing with some numbers, make your own judgments as to trends:

In the past 7 seasons, GS has played 7 more games than Jasper and 13 more games than Heritage Hills.  Another way to look at it is that Coach Hart has more wins (76) than the total number of games (75) Heritage Hills has played during that same period which happens to be the same number of years (7) both Wilkerson and Hart have been the head coaches of their respective programs.

 

 

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Word on the street at least one PAC AD would like to see a forced rotation for the Big 8 big schools to have to play the PAC small schools on some sort of multi-year rotation to get through all the teams (conference play).  Why would any of the Big schools support this?  I think the folks putting together the proposal should be really careful how much they try to push the Big 8 schools for.  They might just get a 1 finger salutation on the deal and that will be that.

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Blow it all up.  How about this: a football only conference with 3 divisions, 18 teams total.  Each division with 6 teams.  Everyone plays the 5 opponents in their division, and 1 opponent from each of the other 2 divisions for a total of 7 conference games.  That leaves 2 open weeks (preferably in weeks 1 and 2) to schedule non-conference opponents or “non-conference” games against members that may not be the crossover opponent from the other divisions.  That would allow some rivalries to be maintained.  This requires snagging some schools from other conferences, but here’s one breakdown:

“Red Division”
Jasper
Boonville
Heritage Hills
Southridge
Gibson Southern
Vincennes Lincoln

“White Division”
North Knox
Pike Central
Princeton
Washington
Linton-Stockton
Sullivan

“Blue Division”
Mount Vernon
Forest Park
North Posey
South Spencer
Tell City
Tecumseh

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I believe the PAC will vote on this in March, so we should have a final official answer soon! 

From my understanding, most will like the schedules with a few teams having to make sacrifices to fulfill contracts and desires.

One example is the watermelon bowl may be suspended for a few years. Although this has been incredibly one sided recently I doubt either teams fans (majority speaking) want to see it end forever!

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55 minutes ago, Cappy said:

I believe the PAC will vote on this in March, so we should have a final official answer soon! 

From my understanding, most will like the schedules with a few teams having to make sacrifices to fulfill contracts and desires.

One example is the watermelon bowl may be suspended for a few years. Although this has been incredibly one sided recently I doubt either teams fans (majority speaking) want to see it end forever!

If a certain HC/AD pushes for any mandory rotation of games between divisions...IT WILL NOT fly.  

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I’m honestly starting to like the idea of all teams dropping the idea of keeping everything they want and just move to a free for all. Make 2 new conferences for football that have no ties to each other...if you wish to keep an opponent work out a non conference game...

 

I’m just in the mindset that if it can’t be done simply, start from scratch and make it simple 

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Outside of a forced rotation through the smaller PAC schools, I can’t imagine the Big 8 not being somewhat flexible to work this out. 

Jasper, VL, Boonville will desire a stronger conference schedule for sure. MV feels they are on the upswing after a 5-5 season last year. Princeton and Washington are the only unknowns, but Princeton already plays GS and, in my mind, would like a stronger schedule after adding Ev. North in 2018.

Unless, of course, the SIAC comes into play for 2 or 3 of the Big 8 schools...can’t rule that out.

Edited by SEAL_63
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I was waiting for the SIAC angle to possibly come in.

T32...I would love to hear where you heard Southridge’s thoughts on this.  We are not hearing the same things.  Just a week or so ago you said this would never happen. You don’t have much credibility left.

Edited by Ridge_raider
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2 hours ago, Ridge_raider said:

I was waiting for the SIAC angle to possibly come in.

T32...I would love to hear where you heard Southridge’s thoughts on this.  We are not hearing the same things.  Just a week or so ago you said this would never happen. You don’t have much credibility left.

Is was much more than a week ago and frankly I am still shocked that some of the PAC schools would buy in.  That said once I received the additional information, I had to go with the facts...my “opinion” was simply wrong.  In terms of SR preferring the small division...I have heard this from multiple sources I believe to be reliable.  I could give two squats if you perceive me as credible or not.  If you have any ties to your own administration...I would encourage you do some investigation of your own.  We should much more in less than two weeks.

Edited by Titan32
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