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Ben Mussolini

What are these advantages that private schools supposedly have?

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Who are we talking about?  LOL

 

I'd like to see high school and college go to a one time transfer allowance.  After that, the rules would be extremely difficult to transfer without sitting out a year.

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1 minute ago, Olympian06 said:

It’s when your fathers ego is bigger than the kids talent.. We all know exactly who we are referring to. I don’t think a kid transferring is necessarily a bad thing, but when it’s school after school you have to look at the common denominator in the sequence. 

I agree 100%

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2 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

It helps when both schools sign off, especially when transferring to a private.

Eron Gordon was a debacle. There were two D1 athletes that transferred from North Central to Cathedral a few years. One was Jordan Walker who has been a 4 year starter at Morehead State who was cleared with no issue. The other was obviously Gordon and because of his household name (Eric Gordon’s brother), he had limited eligibility. It was a mess.

I thought Gordon went to court and he ended up eligible and did not miss any games?

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1 minute ago, Footballking16 said:

How is it interesting? 

He said the exact same thing as I said but used actually schools as an example. A student who goes to a public junior high in Lawrence Township but enrolls at Chatard as a freshman isn’t considered a transfer. Somebody who attends West Lafayette as a freshman but attends Chatard as a sophomore because their parents moved to Indianapolis obviously isn’t an athletic transfer. A kid who starts out at Lawrence North and transfers to a private school 3 miles down the road is obviously going to be considered an athletic transfer, assuming they play sports.

All of this is common sense, self-explanatory. As someone who lists coach/staff in their bio, it’s kind of mystifying how this is somehow news to you? Are you being pedantic?

It's not self explainatory at all. I have seen the IHSAA make various decisions on limited eligibility and not all make sense. I know a kid that went from starting point guard at Loogootee to Orleans with limited eligibility until the last game before the sectional, then back to Loogootee for his senior year with full eligiblity. But as referenced above, some kids can transfer public to private and play immediately. There are a lot of middle ground when it comes to these situations. I was looking for someone who has experienced them. So calm down. Say a Hail Mary or whatever you need to do to relax. Feel free to call or email me for more information on myself. There is no need to scan my bio.

Jeremy Reynolds

812-936-3063

jreynolds@cccs.k12.in.us 

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2 minutes ago, CaptainHook said:

Who are we talking about?  LOL

 

I'd like to see high school and college go to a one time transfer allowance.  After that, the rules would be extremely difficult to transfer without sitting out a year.

Haha

You are smart... we all know 🙂

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I'll be honest.  It depends how long you are willing to fight the IHSAA and how good your lawyer is.  And if you sent any stupid text messages that prove you transferred for athletic reasons.

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4 minutes ago, JQWL said:

It's not self explainatory at all. I have seen the IHSAA make various decisions on limited eligibility and not all make sense. I know a kid that went from starting point guard at Loogootee to Orleans with limited eligibility until the last game before the sectional, then back to Loogootee for his senior year with full eligiblity. But as referenced above, some kids can transfer public to private and play immediately. There are a lot of middle ground when it comes to these situations. I was looking for someone who has experienced them. So calm down. Say a Hail Mary or whatever you need to do to relax. Feel free to call or email me for more information on myself. There is no need to scan my bio.

Jeremy Reynolds

812-936-3063

jreynolds@cccs.k12.in.us 

I will say after many years of observing HS sports...there are far more that transfer from Private to Public (for a multitude of reasons) than Public to private. It’s hit or miss on what the IHSAA rules as far as eligibility. Honestly it’s like playing at a craps table. Just being honest! 

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4 hours ago, Lysander said:

Heck....it’s worse for an old adult in the stands.  Felt like I was watching a shell game at LOS.  I loved watching your offense....even though I never knew who had the ball.

Snuck out before the game did ya?  It’s always the one in the middle. 😆 

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8 hours ago, MHSTigerFan said:

I made that very comment in another thread.  All I said is that, despite my haranguing about the Success Factor, the truth is that, if we were in 3A this year, we probably wouldn't be celebrating right now.  That doesn't change my opinion about the success factor.  But it's the truth.

Sectional 32 is almost always a very tough sectional -- and both HH and GS were high caliber teams this year.  Even if we'd have made it out of there, do I think we could've beaten Chatard again?  I watched your game...and I have my doubts.  They looked phenomenal.

 

8 hours ago, FastpacedO said:

I believe Chatard is at about 11% roster 77 enrollment of 700.

I think Danville was at about 7% roster 59 enrollment 801.

Chatard had 88 players 10th through 12th, with enrollment of 690 - about 13%

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Man- things sure did escalate quickly.

I wonder if the person who started this thread found the answers he/she was seeking. 

Bottom line- I’ve been involved in high school football for nearly 20 years...as a player, fan, and coach. It’s a great sport that teaches invaluable lessons to our youth. Yes, winning is the ultimate- but it’s not THE most important. Is everything ultimately fair?? Probably not( for the record, I believe P/P should all play up a class). But the IHSAA has refused to even consider or listen to any proposals in regards to P/P...no matter how many titles LCC, Chatard, or Cathedral pull in. So it ain’t gonna change, I don’t think ever. 

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13 minutes ago, Cali23 said:

 

Chatard had 88 players 10th through 12th, with enrollment of 690 - about 13%

I provided a link to the roster that was in the IHSAA program had Chatard at 77 players ( you can check for yourself) The IHSAA has them listed at 700 students in the enrichment and classification.

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9 minutes ago, jets said:

Man- things sure did escalate quickly.

I wonder if the person who started this thread found the answers he/she was seeking. 

Bottom line- I’ve been involved in high school football for nearly 20 years...as a player, fan, and coach. It’s a great sport that teaches invaluable lessons to our youth. Yes, winning is the ultimate- but it’s not THE most important. Is everything ultimately fair?? Probably not( for the record, I believe P/P should all play up a class). But the IHSAA has refused to even consider or listen to any proposals in regards to P/P...no matter how many titles LCC, Chatard, or Cathedral pull in. So it ain’t gonna change, I don’t think ever. 

I agree but the IHSAA can’t look at just the titles Cathedral, Chatard, LCC, or Memorial wins. They also have to look at Park Tudor, Bishop Noll, Providence, Oldenburg, etc a bump would also involve them. 

I have been around the GID about as long as you say you have been around Hs football in Indiana. Been around Indiana HS football for about 28 years. The SF has been very good just wish it were as the IFCA proposed at 4 years instead of 2

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9 hours ago, HHPatriots said:

We just got our butt kicked by Chatard. Nobody cares about excuses.  My 12 year old son came to me during the game Friday and said, "do you realize that their team is 1/5 the size of our entire school?!?!?!"  My reply to him was that none of this matters.  Nobody cares about excuses.  Until Indiana changes the rules we just have to work harder and find a way to win.  

Football is a huge tradition at Chatard obviously. About 30% of the boys are playing football. We’re deep. Everyone wants to be apart but only so manymget on the field. 

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1 hour ago, XStar said:

Right.  Let's go all the way then and get rid of the classes entirely.  Who cares if Carmel has 200 kids for every 1 Sheridan has.  Those Sheridan kids just need to roll up their sleeves and realize the only difference that matters is that the Carmel kids work harder at the end of the day.

So long as we are still separating teams by class, telling teams to just work harder if they want more success is out the window.  We've decided to try to make level playing fields.  So if there are significant factors other than just attendance that make an uneven playing field, what's the difference in adjusting for those?  

Personally I like success factor because I don't believe that winning is #1 ideal the IHSAA should be promoting.  Competition is.  And if at the end of the day a couple of classes end up losing in regionals rather than walking to a smaller state championship, there's a life lesson that goes with that as well.  As someone who believes in competition, I'll tell you who I wouldn't have wanted to be this year.  A player for Western Boone or Chatard.  Those programs walked through their respective tourneys without ever getting really even challenged.  They weren't provided a level of competition to allow them to discover exactly how good they could be.  They just know they were way better than everyone in their class.

This may sound like a flippant question, but I’m genuinely curious to hear your answer, given your comments about keeping things competitive....

Should IHSAA golf events be handicapped?

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15 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

I provided a link to the roster that was in the IHSAA program had Chatard at 77 players ( you can check for yourself) The IHSAA has them listed at 700 students in the enrichment and classification.

Maybe the program only had the dress list.  Thought u could only dress 75.  If u look at the roster on the Chatard website, I believe there are about 88.  700 may be the correct enrollment number??

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14 minutes ago, Cali23 said:

Maybe the program only had the dress list.  Thought u could only dress 75.  If u look at the roster on the Chatard website, I believe there are about 88.  700 may be the correct enrollment number??

See my posts about Valpo and Center Grove rosters (100+). Not trying to be mean or arrogant. I only listed what was in the state finals program for roster and IHSAA for enrollment and classification. I was not discriminating any team.

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20 minutes ago, Cali23 said:

Maybe the program only had the dress list.  Thought u could only dress 75.  If u look at the roster on the Chatard website, I believe there are about 88.  700 may be the correct enrollment number??

80 on JV varsity roster, 35 on freshman. 710 for enrollment so u have 16% playing. 

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Not everyone gets a trophy.

It’s not the triumph, but the struggle.

 

Edited by Gipper

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13 hours ago, FastpacedO said:

This might be a small area where may disagree (believe me that’s okay I totally respect you and your opinions). I say this because many when thinking of P/P many think Cathedral or Chatard. What about Providence, Bishop Noll, Oldenburg, Park Tudor? They can control their enenrollment numbers and student population make-up but doesn’t translate like you would think for Cathedral or Chatard. No where near the success and bumping them up wouldn’t be the correct action. 

There is a lot to be said about socioeconomics and geography too. Being in Indianapolis, Fort Wayne, or Evansville is a lot different than where these schools are located. Just food for thought.

Obviously, this is a football site, but Providence has a powerhouse volleyball program, and Park Tudor had Yogi Ferrell, Trevon Bleuitt and a basketball team with 3-4 Div. I players (and a college coach running the show) pretty consistently for about a half-decade. Noll has fallen on hard times recently, but had a state-level program in the past in multiple sports. Heritage Christian built a powerhouse girls basketball program almost overnight, especially after Kelly Faris transferred in from Plainfield. 

Most p/ps only control their enrollment numbers if they reach building capacity, but otherwise, they're not going to turn down a check to stay in a lower enrollment class. I had a private school AD explain to me the main reason they're more successful is because they're parent-choice schools. Every single person in the building has intentionally chosen to go to that school for various reasons - academics, religious, smaller school, and yes, athletics. Therefore, you're going to have a greater percentage of the student body active and involved in school activites, including sports (and success is likely to attract parents/students who want that). In a sport like football, where numbers can make a difference, a school like Cathedral might have 600 boys, but 125 go out for football and another 350 involved in other sports, band, drama, choir, et al. A similarly-sized public school might have only 70 go out for football and 200 in other sports & ECAs.

I'm not sure how much of an impact this has, and this isn't an issue in football, but in sports like volleyball, basketball, baseball, softball, et al, where travel sports have a *significant* impact, you've already got parents willing to pay thousands of dollars a year to showcase their kid on an elite team. They're more willing to pay tuition for a better athletic experience for their children, too. You tend to see more movement in those sports - even between publics - as players move to play with travel teammates, et al. 

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On 12/1/2019 at 7:55 PM, SL816 said:

This is the "advantage". The P/P schools that win big are in the states most populated cities: Indy, Lafayette, Evansville, Ft Wayne...... It doesn't guarantee you'll win, but the resources are there, that draw the families.

Quality schools with top-notch programs who have trophy cases full of State Championship trophies (in any sport) tend to attract great athletes in that sport. That's just human nature.

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On 12/1/2019 at 7:11 PM, Ben Mussolini said:

In the 1A championship game topic, it was stated that private schools should not be allowed to compete in 1A as they have too many "advantages"?  What are these advantages? 

Private schools have to compete not just for football players but for literally their entire student body.  The parents of these students all make sacrifices in time and money that public school parents simply do not have to make.   The parents always have the option of deciding that these sacrifices are too much and simply walking away.   There is always a public alternative that the parents have already paid for anyway with their own tax money.

The facilities at private schools are often not their own.  Covenant Christian HS uses the Zionsville West Middle School field as its home field.  In 2016, Lutheran had to move its regional game against Fountain Central to Beech Grove's field as Lutheran's old home field was simply not that good of a field.  How is playing on a field that's not your own an advantage? 

I will grant that many 1A public schools have stretched resources.  They are at least guaranteed a student body from year to year and have their own facilities rather than borrowing someone else's.  Once again, what advantages do private schools supposedly have?

 

 

 

This can be looked at through a lot of different lenses..... depending on your association with the schools and your background. The best way for me to describe why private schools have an advantage in the smaller classes is quite simply the numbers game. Take a public school of 250 students and a private school of 250 students. Compare those two 250 student bodies and tell me that their isnt a drastic difference in makeup. Sure, open enrollment is one argument, but realistically most small school communities are made up entirely of kids that have no choice but to go to that school due to location and socioeconomic status. While a private school, kids literally choose to go there and the school can essentially pick their student body..... A private schools enrollment usually doesnt include students such as special needs students, students that are so low socioeconomically that they are forced into the work force at a young age (hindering their ability to partake in sports), and the "ghost students" that are enrollment counts but rarely attend school. You can argue about public schools and say that they can do the same thing as privates and can grow their program to improve. Theres validity to every argument. However, please atleast acknowledge that the student body makeup between small public and privates are vastly different which has implications to the athletics department.... Trust me, ive been involved in both Public and Private schools over the years and can assure you it is just different. 

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How many football teams have won state in 1st year of success bump? Is EM the 1st to do it! 

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14 minutes ago, Screagle said:

How many football teams have won state in 1st year of success bump? Is EM the 1st to do it! 

I believe Cathedral did 2012 won 4A title beating Mishawaka. Bumped to 5A 2013 and beat Westfield for State Title.

I will have to look and see about any others

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2 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

I believe Cathedral did 2012 won 4A title beating Mishawaka. Bumped to 5A 2013 and beat Westfield for State Title.

I will have to look and see about any others

Yes, Cathedral won back to back 5A state titles in 2013 and 2014 after getting bumped up from 4A.  

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