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Ben Mussolini

What are these advantages that private schools supposedly have?

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29 minutes ago, Screagle said:

How many football teams have won state in 1st year of success bump? Is EM the 1st to do it! 

I think Cathedral did it first, but still nonetheless Evansville Memorial is in elite status right now. I believe they are only the 4th school to bump up another class and win a state title, joining New Pal, Cathedral and Columbus East. Outstanding season by EM 

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17 hours ago, XStar said:

Right.  Let's go all the way then and get rid of the classes entirely.  Who cares if Carmel has 200 kids for every 1 Sheridan has.  Those Sheridan kids just need to roll up their sleeves and realize the only difference that matters is that the Carmel kids work harder at the end of the day.

So long as we are still separating teams by class, telling teams to just work harder if they want more success is out the window.  We've decided to try to make level playing fields.  So if there are significant factors other than just attendance that make an uneven playing field, what's the difference in adjusting for those?  

Personally I like success factor because I don't believe that winning is #1 ideal the IHSAA should be promoting.  Competition is.  And if at the end of the day a couple of classes end up losing in regionals rather than walking to a smaller state championship, there's a life lesson that goes with that as well.  As someone who believes in competition, I'll tell you who I wouldn't have wanted to be this year.  A player for Western Boone or Chatard.  Those programs walked through their respective tourneys without ever getting really even challenged.  They weren't provided a level of competition to allow them to discover exactly how good they could be.  They just know they were way better than everyone in their class.

A true system of promotion & relegation throws the enrollment numbers out of the window.  It is the success or the failure of the program that matters.

 

 

Edited by Muda69

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22 hours ago, Lysander said:

True.  The Deanery school teams used to run whatever they wanted.  I assume that is still the same.  

If I recall correctly, when Doyle was Freshman coach at Chatard even he didn’t run the varsity offense (players may correct me on this, though).

That would be correct

 

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20 hours ago, Screagle said:

I know without question when a private wins a state championship it’s because of recruiting and family/school resources. When a public wins it it’s a great feeder program with solid coaching throughout the program. 

If you are going to make such rude and disparaging comments, then show your facts to support it. I highly doubt you have these facts and you tossing this around minimizes the hard work and dedication by the players, coaches, school, and community.

Let me be direct - recruiting does not occur at Chatard. Again, if you have facts to support your comment, bring it. Otherwise, please stop with your negative bashing...its not fair and taints the shine of all the well deserved championships in our school history.

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2 minutes ago, Trojan88 said:

If you are going to make such rude and disparaging comments, then show your facts to support it. I highly doubt you have these facts and you tossing this around minimizes the hard work and dedication by the players, coaches, school, and community.

Let me be direct - recruiting does not occur at Chatard. Again, if you have facts to support your comment, bring it. Otherwise, please stop with your negative bashing...its not fair and taints the shine of all the well deserved championships in our school history.

LOL.  Screagle is being facetious...

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7 minutes ago, Trojan88 said:

If you are going to make such rude and disparaging comments, then show your facts to support it. I highly doubt you have these facts and you tossing this around minimizes the hard work and dedication by the players, coaches, school, and community.

Let me be direct - recruiting does not occur at Chatard. Again, if you have facts to support your comment, bring it. Otherwise, please stop with your negative bashing...its not fair and taints the shine of all the well deserved championships in our school history.

It’s sarcasm!!! Might check my bio...which I’m sure you have since you’ve sent a message to me. 
 

But I do like your “bring it” comment. We lived by that 3x in SS the past 12 years 😜

Edited by Screagle

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7 minutes ago, Trojan88 said:

If you are going to make such rude and disparaging comments, then show your facts to support it. I highly doubt you have these facts and you tossing this around minimizes the hard work and dedication by the players, coaches, school, and community.

Let me be direct - recruiting does not occur at Chatard. Again, if you have facts to support your comment, bring it. Otherwise, please stop with your negative bashing...its not fair and taints the shine of all the well deserved championships in our school history.

I think that went over your head...

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4 hours ago, Screagle said:

How many football teams have won state in 1st year of success bump? Is EM the 1st to do it! 

So now you're proud?  What happened to crying about freshman having to play the rest of their career in 4A?  

Glad you are finally happy!

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On 12/2/2019 at 12:43 PM, JQWL said:

I feel like many of the arguments in this thread are one sided.

"We have to play private schools with more advantages." The reply is, "The world isn't' fair."

"We got bumped up and have to play in a bigger class." Shouldn't the reply, "The world isn't fair" apply here too?

Only if we had a one class playoff system would this asinine argument hold any weight.  

If you want to have a class playoff system based on enrollment, that’s the way it has to be for everyone.  

One comment I hear that bothers me quite a bit is private schools have parents who are involved. This is true, however, every single parent doesn’t have their child involved in football.  The fact that there are so many sports now for kids to play makes it harder for the private schools to maintain excellence UNLESS they have fully committed coaches who in turn hold the players accountable.  If you want to win, that’s what it takes and it doesn’t always happen overnight.  

The amount of geeks roaming the halls who are attending private schools for the sole reason of getting into a good college would surprise you.   Not everyone wants to play football.  But when you create a culture that makes kids want to play and hold them accountable towards a winning way, you will win.  

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36 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

So now you're proud?  What happened to crying about freshman having to play the rest of their career in 4A?  

Glad you are finally happy!

Asked a simple question. Still not a fan. But Semi State and State much easier in 4A. Sectionals  and Regionals not so much. 

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"I wonder if the person who started this thread found the answers he/she was seeking." 

The only thing I've learned so far is that Carmel and Westfield apparently have sushi bars at lunch.  Also, private/parochial schools have better desserts at lunch. 

Both private and public schools seem to be capable of success.  Tradition comes from success and success comes when talent meets the hard work of preparation.  This is not new and is the basis of American society.  If we care about something and work at it, we tend to get better at it. 

Is the advantage of private/parochial schools then that they are better at forming communities committed to sports success?  If so, how does that explain some of the private/parochial schools that aren't as successful?  Hmm???

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, CoachJB said:

This can be looked at through a lot of different lenses..... depending on your association with the schools and your background. The best way for me to describe why private schools have an advantage in the smaller classes is quite simply the numbers game. Take a public school of 250 students and a private school of 250 students. Compare those two 250 student bodies and tell me that their isnt a drastic difference in makeup. Sure, open enrollment is one argument, but realistically most small school communities are made up entirely of kids that have no choice but to go to that school due to location and socioeconomic status. While a private school, kids literally choose to go there and the school can essentially pick their student body..... A private schools enrollment usually doesnt include students such as special needs students, students that are so low socioeconomically that they are forced into the work force at a young age (hindering their ability to partake in sports), and the "ghost students" that are enrollment counts but rarely attend school. You can argue about public schools and say that they can do the same thing as privates and can grow their program to improve. Theres validity to every argument. However, please atleast acknowledge that the student body makeup between small public and privates are vastly different which has implications to the athletics department.... Trust me, ive been involved in both Public and Private schools over the years and can assure you it is just different. 

The difference in student body composition between public and private/parochial schools is undoubtedly a difference.  With the category of "ghost students" you mention, that also includes a difference in parental population composition.  I acknowledge your point.

 

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On 12/2/2019 at 4:45 PM, Lysander said:

Random thoughts:

1. P/Ps do not limit school size for athletics.  Aside from financial and likely physical constraints (nowhere to build), the argument begs against common sense.   As has been stated, it’s a struggle to keep class sizes up.  If they could grow to Carmel size, they would.

2.  I agree with Irishman in that special needs kids that aren’t ever going to play a sport shouldn’t be counted toward totals for the purpose of classes.  

3.  I argued against the Success Factor from the beginning making many of the arguments @MHSTigerFan is making today (and I still agree with him).  It’s Orwellian and reminds me of “Harrison Bergeron”.  I always said just move all P/Ps up a class and be done with it (because the same untruths and complaints will always promulgate....as we are seeing here now).  That thought didn’t get much traction either, though.  

But today, I think we are stuck with the Success Factor because for some, it’s now a point of pride.  I have a feeling that New Pal, Columbus East and Cathedral all want to compete “Up” these days to show their stuff.  I’m personally PO’d that Chatard didn’t stick in 4A (which still had New Pal, CE and Dwenger in it at the time) although I think 3A has been better than 4A the last few years (I personally think Memorial’s success there helps evidence that).  Still, aside from the reason for its creation, there is a whole new contingent of teams that like being bumped up.
 

 

Since the IHSAA has included Unified Sports, number 2 will never happen.  Do the partners that also participate not count as well.  Many of them are athletes in other sports as well.

For information purposes, the Unified Sports are Flag Football, Bowling, Track, and Bocce

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