Contraction Update - The March to 280 Continues

[Ben Mussolini]

15 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

A candidate for contraction?: http://pastfb.homestead.com/logs/Frankfort.htm#loaded

3-37 over the last four seasons, and 2 of those wins came over a similar moribund program.   And the score differential shows the vast majority of those 37 losses were not even competitive games.

 

North Vermillion was 2-38 between 1974 and 1977.  Should they have been contracted back then?  If a program is "contracted", is there a path back from contraction?  This appears to be nothing but a death penalty for lack of success. 

[Guest DT]

5 minutes ago, JQWL said:

25 to 30 kids! That would be great!

Admins are forcing an athletic menu down kids throats.  Football is not a requirement, like math and basic english.

And high school football is designed to support other sports through gate revenue and concessions.

Where football is on the cusp of contraction, I say let the kids decide.  

 

2 minutes ago, Ben Mussolini said:

North Vermillion was 2-38 between 1974 and 1977.  Should they have been contracted back then?  If a program is "contracted", is there a path back from contraction?  This appears to be nothing but a death penalty for lack of success. 

Football was growing leaps and bounds back then.

 

It is contracting today.   We are past the peak, at all levels.

 

It happens

[Guest DT]

10 minutes ago, JustRules said:

You get to learn what it's like to be part of a team and play a role (leader and follower), learn an offense and/or defense, set goals as a team, have a reason to keep your grades up, be involved and make friends, an activity for the community to rally around and connect, handle adversity, push yourself to get better at something. I'm sure the list is much longer. Yes it's awesome if you can be part of a program that competes every week. Or a program that has a chance to win a sectional final. Or at least upset the huge favorite in the sectional. Or maybe even compete for a state championship. But not everyone can reasonably achieve that and that's OK.

Cant those same things be achieved by being a member of the following groups ? :

basketball team

Soccer team

baseball team

marching band

show choir

debate team

 

And perhaps experience some winning along the way

No one will ever convince me that those kids at Shelbyville had a good experience this year

fact is, the admin let them down.  

Dereliction of responsibility

Would you send your son or daughter out on 465 before they were fully ready to handle it?

Then why send these kids into harms way?  They clearly weren't ready to handle it.  Thats on the admin.  

 

Edited December 4, 2019 by DT

[JustRules]

11 minutes ago, DT said:

Cant those same things be achieved by being a member of the following groups ? :

basketball team

Soccer team

baseball team

marching band

show choir

debate team

 

And perhaps experience some winning along the way

No one will ever convince me that those kids at Shelbyville had a good experience this year

fact is, the admin let them down.  

Dereliction of responsibility

Would you send your son or daughter out on 465 before they were fully ready to handle it?

Then why send these kids into harms way?  They clearly weren't ready to handle it.  Thats on the admin.  

 

It can be achieved in all those activities and it probably does. But if the student doesn't want to participate in those activities or those activities don't have enough opportunities (could the Frankfort soccer team absorb the 60 football players that would be looking for something else if the team contracted?) then this is the opportunity that was chosen. I have a lot of respect for players who join a team and stick with it knowing they will likely lose big on the field every Friday night. They have a commitment and heart I would love to hire some day. I've worked many games with teams that have lost a lot more than won (Elmhurst, Edinboro back in the day, Crawfordsville, Frankfort recently) and those players were still playing hard and having fun because they were getting to play high school football on a Friday night. They would definitely prefer to be more competitive but they weren't giving up. And as long as they have enough players to field a team then I'm all for them continuing.

[Muda69]

1 hour ago, JustRules said:

I believe Frankfort had 60 players on their roster this year. They weren't great, but that's 60 kids who want to play football. High school sports aren't only about winning.

That is quite an understatement, especially for a supposedly "4A" size program and the competence usually associated with such a designation.

 

 

[FastpacedO]

4 hours ago, DT said:

You guys are mean

I'm not mean. I just answered a silly question with a silly answer.

[Olympian06]

4 hours ago, Muda69 said:

A candidate for contraction?: http://pastfb.homestead.com/logs/Frankfort.htm#loaded

3-37 over the last four seasons, and 2 of those wins came over a similar moribund program.   And the score differential shows the vast majority of those 37 losses were not even competitive games.

 

They should just contract that whole city.. 

[Gipper]

30 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

I'm not mean. I just answered a silly question with a silly answer.

I'm not mean, either.  But when getting people engaged in conversation, one should not always hope for similar attitudes.  Dissent is commonplace.  Some pretty wild things have been proposed and thinking everyone will embrace them is silly.

[Ben Mussolini]

4 hours ago, DT said:

Admins are forcing an athletic menu down kids throats.  Football is not a requirement, like math and basic english.

And high school football is designed to support other sports through gate revenue and concessions.

Where football is on the cusp of contraction, I say let the kids decide.  

 

Football was growing leaps and bounds back then.

 

It is contracting today.   We are past the peak, at all levels.

 

It happens

Never did get an answer to the question "Is there a path back from contraction?"  Is this a voluntary process on the part of the school, in which case a program could always be restarted if sufficient interest were generated?  Or is this something to be enforced by the IHSAA?  How does this all supposedly work?

[gonzoron]

5 hours ago, DT said:

Football was growing leaps and bounds back then.

It was? How many teams were there in those years compared to now. And compared to the years before that?

In Hamilton County, football growth has been static for 50 years. Only 1 additional team(in 2006) even considering the tremendous population growth.

Edited December 4, 2019 by gonzoron

[Gipper]

Been thinking about this whole contraction/280 madness.  I just don’t get it.  As populations grow, more schools will be needed, and the kids will need something to do.   Not just the 75 on the team, we’re talking about the support staff, cheerleaders, band, and most importantly fans.  Come to the games and hang out with your friends or make new ones.  Football is a great thing and to place so many restrictions on it is next-level stupid.

[gonzoron]

6 hours ago, Tanka Jahari said:

What weakness in Pendleton Heights' defense did Shelbyville discover and exploit to score in the last two games of their season?

Somebody beat me to it.

Edited December 4, 2019 by gonzoron

[FastpacedO]

1 hour ago, Gipper said:

I'm not mean, either.  But when getting people engaged in conversation, one should not always hope for similar attitudes.  Dissent is commonplace.  Some pretty wild things have been proposed and thinking everyone will embrace them is silly.

I hope that wasn’t directed towards me as I have no dissent. I also vehemently am against the supposed contraction to 289 like @crimsonace1. I posted that Shelbyville completed their season (because it had been stated they shut it all down) with their schedule that had scores. I was asked a goofy question what weaknesses they found to score a TD in Orndleton heights the last two games. I sarcastically responded they ran the same okay week 1 (only other game they scored in) and found that it still worked.

wasnt being mean towards Shelbyville just found it a shall I say goofy question so I came up with a just as goofy answer.

 

BTW @Gipper what is the best seasoning for coaches? lol Cajun ?

Edited December 4, 2019 by FastpacedO

[Gipper]

2 hours ago, FastpacedO said:

I hope that wasn’t directed towards me as I have no dissent. I also vehemently am against the supposed contraction to 289 like @crimsonace1. I posted that Shelbyville completed their season (because it had been stated they shut it all down) with their schedule that had scores. I was asked a goofy question what weaknesses they found to score a TD in Orndleton heights the last two games. I sarcastically responded they ran the same okay week 1 (only other game they scored in) and found that it still worked.

wasnt being mean towards Shelbyville just found it a shall I say goofy question so I came up with a just as goofy answer.

 

BTW @Gipper what is the best seasoning for coaches? lol Cajun ?

No it wasn’t, Cajun is fine, as is any type of dry rub.   

[Gipper]

2 hours ago, FastpacedO said:

I hope that wasn’t directed towards me as I have no dissent. I also vehemently am against the supposed contraction to 289 like @crimsonace1. I posted that Shelbyville completed their season (because it had been stated they shut it all down) with their schedule that had scores. I was asked a goofy question what weaknesses they found to score a TD in Orndleton heights the last two games. I sarcastically responded they ran the same okay week 1 (only other game they scored in) and found that it still worked.

wasnt being mean towards Shelbyville just found it a shall I say goofy question so I came up with a just as goofy answer.

 

BTW @Gipper what is the best seasoning for coaches? lol Cajun ?

No it wasn’t, Cajun is fine, as is any type of dry rub.   
 

www.thespicehouse.com

[Guest DT]

2 hours ago, Gipper said:

Been thinking about this whole contraction/280 madness.  I just don’t get it.  As populations grow, more schools will be needed, and the kids will need something to do.   Not just the 75 on the team, we’re talking about the support staff, cheerleaders, band, and most importantly fans.  Come to the games and hang out with your friends or make new ones.  Football is a great thing and to place so many restrictions on it is next-level stupid.

Contraction is the culling of bottom feeding programs at the lowest end of the competitive profile scale, with the intent of improving overall competitive balance and quality of play.

Contraction can also be achieved thru school closures and /or consolidations 

 

 

[Gipper]

12 minutes ago, DT said:

Contraction is the culling of bottom feeding programs at the lowest end of the competitive profile scale, with the intent of improving overall competitive balance and quality of play.

Contraction can also be achieved thru school closures and /or consolidations 

 

 

Whatever.

[HoosierFB_JG]

Serious question (as opposed to not serious 🤣)

 

If we cut the current bottom feeders down to 280, what happens next?  In a few years, teams 261-280 are the new norm to being terrible, do we cut them as well?  I think if programs are ever in serious consideration of folding, there has to be some sort of checklist vs folding because of lack of being competitive.  Just as there is always a team at the top, there has to be a team at the bottom.

[saintsguyseh]

10 hours ago, DT said:

Cant those same things be achieved by being a member of the following groups ? :

basketball team

Soccer team

baseball team

marching band

show choir

debate team

 

And perhaps experience some winning along the way

No one will ever convince me that those kids at Shelbyville had a good experience this year

fact is, the admin let them down.  

Dereliction of responsibility

Would you send your son or daughter out on 465 before they were fully ready to handle it?

Then why send these kids into harms way?  They clearly weren't ready to handle it.  Thats on the admin.  

 

If you hate the sport so much leave the forum dude. You legitimately want to deprive kids of the ability to play a game just because they don’t win often or even ever. According to what i counted on Maxpreps Shelbyville has 53 kids on the varsity roster this year. 53. That means 53 young men CHOSE to play football, for their love of the game, for their friendships, for their community, and heck, for fun. No administrators were out there forcing students in the hall way to go to football practice and forcing them to play in theses games. High school football is a choice, a choice that isn’t always easy because not even the best programs in the state (asides from maybe NP) win every single game every year, a choice that teaches these young men that no matter how hard you got beat down you get back up and fight again, and a choice that you want to deprive of at least 53 young men to possibly hundreds just because they don’t win as often as you deem necessary. 

“none of those boys had fun playing”

if not a single kid on that team had fun playing then they wouldn’t have had 53 players on the team bub.

This is possibly one of the dumbest and most ignorant statements i have ever seen on GID.

[saintsguyseh]

On 12/3/2019 at 10:40 PM, BTF said:

I'd like to see Northrop's football program fold. Let those kids join forces with Snider (they share Spuller stadium anyway) to create a mega-school out of The Fort. Just wishful thinking.........won't ever happen. 

Dear Lord, have mercy on the SAC if that were ever to happen, the talent at Northrop is there they just can never seem to get it organized enough if they were under Sniders staff it would ruin all of the competition in Fort Wayne😂

[BTF]

22 minutes ago, saintsguyseh said:

Dear Lord, have mercy on the SAC if that were ever to happen, the talent at Northrop is there they just can never seem to get it organized enough if they were under Sniders staff it would ruin all of the competition in Fort Wayne😂

Lol, yes. Purely fictitious though. But fun to think about. I think a team like that would have to go independent instead of playing in the SAC.

[TheStatGuy]

14 hours ago, DT said:

Am i being obtuse?

Oh yeah.

 

They are about teaching life lessons.

So are we teaching the Frankfort youth how to lose with grace and dignity?

No.

Frankfort is teaching them about hardwork, never giving up and working as a team. 

You realize football is sometimes a way for kids to get away from their problems?

 

Do you realize sometimes their coaches are the only father figures some of  the kids have? Sometimes kids have built up anger and they channel it into football. 

I lost my dad tail end of 7th grade, i was mad at the world, i was mad at God. I I used a lot of that built up anger on the field and damn some of it went away. 

You only look at football at winning and losing...while majority of us realize football and other sports are more then just a game. 

Its a way to help give kids an escape. It helps kids stay up on their grades, to stay out of trouble and it gives them guidance. It gives them a sense of family. 

I feel sorry for you. You always think you are the smartest dude on here but honestly you are a bafoon.

Edited December 5, 2019 by Ultimate Warrior

[AG]

18 hours ago, DT said:

Shelby may be beyond the point of no return.

Im sure they are talking about a comeback, but this is 2020, not 1995.

Kids passion for football is on the downturn.  I know all about NP, but that is THE exception to the rule.  There is a new group of admins running the show now.  They dont have the passion for football that their predecessors did.

The Shelby braintrust hopefully will take a deep dive into this issue and determine if its really worth it.  

Is it worth it just to show up and throw 11 live bodies on the field every Friday night?

Could those funds be better utilized elsewhere in the school?

Do the kids want an support a football program?

Is there a realistic chance of rebuilding the feeder system?

What kind of coaching can you possibly attract to this job?

Hopefully they will do their due diligence and come to a conclusion that is suitable for the entire student body, not just the 3% of students who want to keep playing.  

I can imagine you now, dancing and kicking up your heels now because a few dozen students lost the opportunity to play a sport.

I think I found DTs picture 

[WWFan]

Always cracks me up. No matter how many threads get started on contraction always new fish getting mad. Yet this thread has more post then talking about nice subjects such as Mr Football and Top 25 programs of all time. Welcome to DTs side of the forum. You may hate the subjects but it always leads to chatter and from now until August it's what keeps me coming back. 

 

PS...no I dont support the whole contraction movement him and muda march with but I support the entertaining threads that follow. Enjoy the offseason!!

[Robert]

22 hours ago, DT said:

Contraction is Contraction

It comes in various forms

Shelbyville and Noll both contracted due to poor results.  many factors contributed to the contyraction, but the end result on the field is what drove both schools to suspend their programs.

 

Is this economics or high school football?