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Top 25 Programs All-Time


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On 12/4/2019 at 11:37 AM, 1st_and_10 said:

I used a number of different things when I put this list together.. 

 

IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER:

  1. Cathedral
  2. Ben Davis
  3. Chatard
  4. Warren Central
  5. FW Dwenger
  6. Evansville Mater Dei
  7. Penn
  8. FW Luers
  9. FW Snider
  10. Carmel
  11. Center Grove
  12. Columbus East
  13. Roncalli
  14. East Central
  15. Hobart
  16. Andrean
  17. LCC
  18. Sheridan
  19. Jimtown
  20. Ritter
  21. Tri-West
  22. New Pal
  23. Northwood
  24. Heritage Hills
  25. Webo (Homer Pick 😉

Pretty good list (particularly given how quickly you generated it).  Being from Southeast Indiana, I’d make a case for Lawrenceburg on that list.  Historically a power in Southeast Indiana (well before there was an East Central) and a couple of State Championships the late 70s.  Bearing in mind that 4A is as large of a school size as that portion of the State has, Lawrenceburg ruled the roost for many years there.

Edited by Lysander
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Haven't started mine yet but am anxious to see how the following categories are weighted by folks and taken into account:

1.  Wins/winning percentage as a program.

2.  State championships.

3.  Next level (collegiate/professional) players produced.

4.  Mr. Football winners.

5. Other factors?

Also, do heavyweights (4/5/6A) get weighted differently based on their success compared to their counterparts due to tougher competition?

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Temptation said:

Haven't started mine yet but am anxious to see how the following categories are weighted by folks and taken into account:

1.  Wins/winning percentage as a program.

2.  State championships.

3.  Next level (collegiate/professional) players produced.

4.  Mr. Football winners.

5. Other factors?

Also, do heavyweights (4/5/6A) get weighted differently based on their success compared to their counterparts due to tougher competition?

 

 

Oh we had a kid finish 3rd in Mr. Football in 2005, which was unheard of back in the day!!!    Cannot believe 2005 is officially back in the day

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I am more than a little biased as well, but would think that West Lafayette should be under consideration.

Consider this data:

  • Overall Tournament record - 71-34 (.676)
  • Sectional record - 53-22 (.707) overall record; 14 championships
  • 9 regional championships
  • 5 Semi-State Championships
  • 2 State runner-ups
  • 3 State Championships
  • 2 Hall of Fame Coaches (Gordon Straley & Ernie Beck)
  • 1 Mr. Football (Daniel Wodicka)
  • Current Coach, Shane Frye, has been at WL for 8 years with a record of 86-18 (.826)
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I used a point system (state 10, semi-state 7, regionals 5, sectionals 3) purely based on championships. The schools I considered were all among the leaders in either sectional, regional, semi-state, or state championships.......using JH's website. 

Top 25

1.     Chatard

2.     Carmel

3.     Luers

4.     Cathedral

5.     Ben Davis

6.     Roncalli

7.     Dwenger

8.     Penn

9.     Sheridan

10.   Warren Central

11.   Hobart

12.   Ritter

13.   Snider

14.   LCC

15.   Jimtown

16.   Center Grove

17.   Mater Dei

18.   Tri-West

19.   Northwood

         Andrean

21.   Evansville Memorial

22.   West Lafayette

23.   Franklin Central

24.   Eastbrook

25.   East Central

         Columbus East

         Adams Central

 

Best of the Rest

28.   Bloomington South

29.   Scenina

30.   Breman

         New Pal

         Pioneer

33.   Jasper

34.   Lowell

35.   Heritage Hills

36.   Western Boone

37.   Lawrenceburg

38.   Reitz

39.   Linton-Stocton

40.   Griffith

 

 

 

 

 

        

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, BTF said:

I used a point system (state 10, semi-state 7, regionals 5, sectionals 3) purely based on championships. The schools I considered were all among the leaders in either sectional, regional, semi-state, or state championships.......using JH's website. 

Top 25

1.     Chatard

2.     Carmel

3.     Luers

4.     Cathedral

5.     Ben Davis

6.     Roncalli

7.     Dwenger

8.     Penn

9.     Sheridan

10.   Warren Central

11.   Hobart

12.   Ritter

13.   Snider

14.   LCC

15.   Jimtown

16.   Center Grove

17.   Mater Dei

18.   Tri-West

19.   Northwood

         Andrean

21.   Evansville Memorial

22.   West Lafayette

23.   Franklin Central

24.   Eastbrook

25.   East Central

         Columbus East

         Adams Central

 

Best of the Rest

28.   Bloomington South

29.   Scenina

30.   Breman

         New Pal

         Pioneer

33.   Jasper

34.   Lowell

35.   Heritage Hills

36.   Western Boone

37.   Lawrenceburg

38.   Reitz

39.   Linton-Stocton

40.   Griffith

 

 

 

 

 

        

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I like it.  Maybe you should go all QB rating and add bonuses for performance above enrollment class and multipliers that include Sagarin, Massey and CalPreps ratings.  Of course you'd probably have to quit your job to come up with basically the same results you already have. Lol

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Pre- tournament in the 60’s Evansville Reitz in ‘61 shut out every opponent. That only adds to a historic record for what is not a very large school.

Carmel in the 60’s was the small (5-600 students) playing and beating the Indy township schools..... Lawrence, Warren and North Central.

Bloomington had that long winning streak, 80 some games I believe, from the mid-60’s to 1973.

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1 hour ago, BTF said:

I used a point system (state 10, semi-state 7, regionals 5, sectionals 3) purely based on championships. The schools I considered were all among the leaders in either sectional, regional, semi-state, or state championships.......using JH's website. 

Top 25

1.     Chatard

2.     Carmel

3.     Luers

4.     Cathedral

5.     Ben Davis

6.     Roncalli

7.     Dwenger

8.     Penn

9.     Sheridan

10.   Warren Central

11.   Hobart

12.   Ritter

13.   Snider

14.   LCC

15.   Jimtown

16.   Center Grove

17.   Mater Dei

18.   Tri-West

19.   Northwood

         Andrean

21.   Evansville Memorial

22.   West Lafayette

23.   Franklin Central

24.   Eastbrook

25.   East Central

         Columbus East

         Adams Central

 

Best of the Rest

28.   Bloomington South

29.   Scenina

30.   Breman

         New Pal

         Pioneer

33.   Jasper

34.   Lowell

35.   Heritage Hills

36.   Western Boone

37.   Lawrenceburg

38.   Reitz

39.   Linton-Stocton

40.   Griffith

 

 

 

 

 

        

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 This is great stuff man. Nice work and while no system is full proof this definitely gives some legitimacy to any discussion folks want to have.

Something that stuck out to me immediately was how much appreciation we should have for Sheridan... looking at the other schools in the top 10 what do they not have in common with any of them?

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31 minutes ago, Temptation said:

 This is great stuff man. Nice work and while no system is full proof this definitely gives some legitimacy to any discussion folks want to have.

Something that stuck out to me immediately was how much appreciation we should have for Sheridan... looking at the other schools in the top 10 what do they not have in common with any of them?

They’ve had one coach!

I’ve searched the internet for a list of all-time wins for each school. Does that exist?

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3 hours ago, BTF said:

I used a point system (state 10, semi-state 7, regionals 5, sectionals 3) purely based on championships. The schools I considered were all among the leaders in either sectional, regional, semi-state, or state championships.......using JH's website. 

Top 25

1.     Chatard

2.     Carmel

3.     Luers

4.     Cathedral

5.     Ben Davis

6.     Roncalli

7.     Dwenger

8.     Penn

9.     Sheridan

10.   Warren Central

11.   Hobart

12.   Ritter

13.   Snider

14.   LCC

15.   Jimtown

16.   Center Grove

17.   Mater Dei

18.   Tri-West

19.   Northwood

         Andrean

21.   Evansville Memorial

22.   West Lafayette

23.   Franklin Central

24.   Eastbrook

25.   East Central

         Columbus East

         Adams Central

 

Best of the Rest

28.   Bloomington South

29.   Scenina

30.   Breman

         New Pal

         Pioneer

33.   Jasper

34.   Lowell

35.   Heritage Hills

36.   Western Boone

37.   Lawrenceburg

38.   Reitz

39.   Linton-Stocton

40.   Griffith

 

 

 

 

 

        

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I also like that it gives a few more points to the deeper playoff runs.  Makes up for some teams being weaker sectionals.
 

  What a fun topic!

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33 minutes ago, dmizers3 said:

I like it.  Maybe you should go all QB rating and add bonuses for performance above enrollment class and multipliers that include Sagarin, Massey and CalPreps ratings.  Of course you'd probably have to quit your job to come up with basically the same results you already have. Lol

Lol, I have a few hours invested in that last one. If anyone wants to add to it, I'd be more than happy to share the numbers with them. 

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3 hours ago, Staxawax said:

They’ve had one coach!

I’ve searched the internet for a list of all-time wins for each school. Does that exist?

It's not perfect, only goes through 2016, and there are some gaps in some of the teams, but this will give you records for each team annually.

http://ifca.zebras.net/ifca/candler/schools.htm

 

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6 hours ago, nmsu_aggie said:

I am more than a little biased as well, but would think that West Lafayette should be under consideration.

Consider this data:

  • Overall Tournament record - 71-34 (.676)
  • Sectional record - 53-22 (.707) overall record; 14 championships
  • 9 regional championships
  • 5 Semi-State Championships
  • 2 State runner-ups
  • 3 State Championships
  • 2 Hall of Fame Coaches (Gordon Straley & Ernie Beck)
  • 1 Mr. Football (Daniel Wodicka)
  • Current Coach, Shane Frye, has been at WL for 8 years with a record of 86-18 (.826)

West Lafayette should be on that list before Western Boone.

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3 hours ago, tango said:

As for BTF's list and the Evansville schools...  I'd move Reitz up (2nd. all-time in wins and 2 state titles in in 5 class format, plus lots of AP mythical titles).  

I didn't take number of wins or winning percentage into account. I'm trying to maintain a life outside of this addicting GID, lol. I also only went back to 1973 per John Harrell's website.

I could certainly see giving points for winning percentage. But I think tournament success is a better indicator of a strong program than winning percentage. I don't want to pick  on Homestead, but they went undefeated almost every year when they were in the NHC as a result of weak competition. Their season always came to an end in sectionals when they met up with Snider. Then you have the MIC where they beat up on each other in the regular season, therefore bringing down their winning percentage. Anyway, lots of factors to think about....for sure. 

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16 hours ago, BTF said:

I used a point system (state 10, semi-state 7, regionals 5, sectionals 3) purely based on championships. The schools I considered were all among the leaders in either sectional, regional, semi-state, or state championships.......using JH's website. 

Top 25

1.     Chatard

2.     Carmel

3.     Luers

4.     Cathedral

5.     Ben Davis

6.     Roncalli

7.     Dwenger

8.     Penn

9.     Sheridan

10.   Warren Central

11.   Hobart

12.   Ritter

13.   Snider

14.   LCC

15.   Jimtown

16.   Center Grove

17.   Mater Dei

18.   Tri-West

19.   Northwood

         Andrean

21.   Evansville Memorial

22.   West Lafayette

23.   Franklin Central

24.   Eastbrook

25.   East Central

         Columbus East

         Adams Central

 

Best of the Rest

28.   Bloomington South

29.   Scenina

30.   Breman  Bremen

         New Pal

         Pioneer

33.   Jasper

34.   Lowell

35.   Heritage Hills

36.   Western Boone

37.   Lawrenceburg

38.   Reitz

39.   Linton-Stocton

40.   Griffith

 

 

Great list, just fixed the spelling.  Sorry pet peeve.

 

 

        

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, captainobvious said:

West Lafayette should be on that list before Western Boone.

Recall that @1st_and_10 acknowledged that he was being a "homer" placing his team, WeBo, on that list.

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19 hours ago, BTF said:

I used a point system (state 10, semi-state 7, regionals 5, sectionals 3) purely based on championships. The schools I considered were all among the leaders in either sectional, regional, semi-state, or state championships.......using JH's website. 

Top 25

1.     Chatard

2.     Carmel

3.     Luers

4.     Cathedral

5.     Ben Davis

6.     Roncalli

7.     Dwenger

8.     Penn

9.     Sheridan

10.   Warren Central

11.   Hobart

12.   Ritter

13.   Snider

14.   LCC

15.   Jimtown

16.   Center Grove

17.   Mater Dei

18.   Tri-West

19.   Northwood

         Andrean

21.   Evansville Memorial

22.   West Lafayette

23.   Franklin Central

24.   Eastbrook

25.   East Central

         Columbus East

         Adams Central

 

Best of the Rest

28.   Bloomington South

29.   Scenina

30.   Breman

         New Pal

         Pioneer

33.   Jasper

34.   Lowell

35.   Heritage Hills

36.   Western Boone

37.   Lawrenceburg

38.   Reitz

39.   Linton-Stocton

40.   Griffith

 

 

 

 

 

        

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I like this list, BUT by just going the leaders list, the numbers are not going to be right. Adams Central would be above Eastbrook, as would Linton and WeBo . Of course, my math could be wrong, but I have Eastbrook at 108, Linton at 116, WeBo at 118, and Adams Central at 212. I found this by going to the individual team tournament history. However, I might have added wrong, I ran out of fingers and toes! :S

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34 minutes ago, Bears62 said:

I posted this in another thread before but here is the list of the top 20 winningest programs in Indiana history. Note this list was made BEFORE the 2018 season. So this list is does not account for wins in the 2018 and 2019 seasons

830F0007-F191-448C-93D3-99EB840A8D13.jpeg

How far back do these wins go? I think if we are being fair about evaluating a program, going back to 1973 per JH is the way to go. Many high schools probably weren't even around when Cathedral, Reitz, Sheridan, and Culver were accumulating wins. 

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It's amazing to see some of these top 25 programs that have been good since the 80s. Tradition never graduates is a real thing for almost all of these schools in the top 25. 

Some of the top 25 teams though that haven't been uber-successful in the last decade or so (or more): Jimtown, Hobart, Roncalli, Luers, Franklin Central, Sheridan, Ritter. I know some of these schools still win sectionals and regionals but they're not as proficient and dynastic as they used to be.  It makes you wonder what happened to those schools from their previous hey-days. 

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