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South Bend Next Contraction Target


Guest DT

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The problem with these urban districts closing schools or just any place where schools close, history shows people just leave and go to the nearest and better looking rural or suburban school. Hammond and South Bend have so much competition with private and charter schools, there is very little these districts will be able to do unless the folks in Indianapolis change the way in which they fund traditional public schools.

 

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24 minutes ago, DACNUT said:

The problem with these urban districts closing schools or just any place where schools close, history shows people just leave and go to the nearest and better looking rural or suburban school. Hammond and South Bend have so much competition with private and charter schools, there is very little these districts will be able to do unless the folks in Indianapolis change the way in which they fund traditional public schools.

 

Hammond is building a brand new high school with all the tech and bells and whistles the new generation wants and needs.  That should keep most students in the city school corporation.  

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There are far too many divisions within the South Bend school district that don’t align from one school level to another.  In my opinion, the kids that go to the same elementary should then attend the same middle school.  The kids that attend the same middle school should then attend the same high school.  There is no “feeder” system that connects any of the schools.  I would propose that district lines be redrawn to cover all levels (elementary, middle, and high school.  Two possibilities would be to go with a 3 high school plan (Adams - NE, Riley - S, LaSalle - NW) or a 2 high school plan (Adams - E, LaSalle - W).

If the 3 high school plan is favored, then each should have 2 feeder middle schools (6 total in the district).  The district boundaries for the 2 middle schools that feed into each high school should be the same as the boundaries for the high school.  Each middle school would then have 2 or 3 feeder elementary schools.  Those elementary schools should have the same boundaries as the middle schools they feed into.

If the 2 high school plan is favored, it’s pretty simple.  Split the district in half with 1 high school on each side (probably Adams and LaSalle for central locations).  3 middle schools on each side.  I’m not sure if the existing facilities would be able to accommodate 2300 or so students.

Under a 3 high school plan, I think they would need to consolidate Clay with Washington at LaSalle as LaSalle Lions suggested.  Clay could then become a middle school.

Washington would also convert to a middle school, basically taking the place of Dickinson.  Dickinson will then convert to an elementary that consolidates students from Warren and Coquillard.  Those two schools would close.  Tarkington would also consolidate with Swanson, which would close.

The district would then be divided with uniform district lines like this:

Adams HS - Jefferson & Edison MS - Tarkington, McKinley, Madison, Nuner, Darden Elem’s

Riley HS - Jackson & Navarre MS - Hay, Monroe, Marshall, Harrison, Lincoln Elem’s

LaSalle HS - Washington & Clay MS - Dickinson, Muessel, Wilson, Kennedy, Marquette Elem’s

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13 hours ago, HoopsCoach said:

There are far too many divisions within the South Bend school district that don’t align from one school level to another.  In my opinion, the kids that go to the same elementary should then attend the same middle school.  The kids that attend the same middle school should then attend the same high school.  There is no “feeder” system that connects any of the schools.  I would propose that district lines be redrawn to cover all levels (elementary, middle, and high school.  Two possibilities would be to go with a 3 high school plan (Adams - NE, Riley - S, LaSalle - NW) or a 2 high school plan (Adams - E, LaSalle - W).

If the 3 high school plan is favored, then each should have 2 feeder middle schools (6 total in the district).  The district boundaries for the 2 middle schools that feed into each high school should be the same as the boundaries for the high school.  Each middle school would then have 2 or 3 feeder elementary schools.  Those elementary schools should have the same boundaries as the middle schools they feed into.

If the 2 high school plan is favored, it’s pretty simple.  Split the district in half with 1 high school on each side (probably Adams and LaSalle for central locations).  3 middle schools on each side.  I’m not sure if the existing facilities would be able to accommodate 2300 or so students.

Under a 3 high school plan, I think they would need to consolidate Clay with Washington at LaSalle as LaSalle Lions suggested.  Clay could then become a middle school.

Washington would also convert to a middle school, basically taking the place of Dickinson.  Dickinson will then convert to an elementary that consolidates students from Warren and Coquillard.  Those two schools would close.  Tarkington would also consolidate with Swanson, which would close.

The district would then be divided with uniform district lines like this:

Adams HS - Jefferson & Edison MS - Tarkington, McKinley, Madison, Nuner, Darden Elem’s

Riley HS - Jackson & Navarre MS - Hay, Monroe, Marshall, Harrison, Lincoln Elem’s

LaSalle HS - Washington & Clay MS - Dickinson, Muessel, Wilson, Kennedy, Marquette Elem’s

Very interesting plan but I think there are more buildings that could or should be closed/consolidated

Plus last night a new charter school will open in Washington for what the new called disadvantged students 

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On 12/13/2019 at 2:15 PM, DT said:

Its going to happen.  Just a question of how many schools will contract.

Id love to see SB go the Hammond route and contract down to 2 football playing schools.  Perhaps leave Clay open as the academic specialty magnet with no sports.

2 SB schools at 2500 students each puts SB high school football back on the map.  Hammond High and Hammond Morton are going to be vastly improved after absorbing the student athletes from Clark and Gavit.  

When does the Hammond contraction take place? I know very little about the region. It appears there are 4 football playing schools in Hammond now: Hammond, Hammond Gavit, Hammond Morton, and Hammond Clarke. 

They are contracting to two schools? You said those schools will have 1900 students a piece. That will put those two schools in 5A. 

Edited by btownqbcoach
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2 minutes ago, btownqbcoach said:

When does the Hammond contraction take place? I know very little about the region. It appears there are 4 football playing schools in Hammond now: Hammond, Hammond Gavit, Hammond Morton, and Hammond Clarke. 

They contracting to two schools? 

Yes.   School Town of Hammond is building a new school dirctly behind the original Hammond High School on the far west side, very close to Illinois border.  I would think the new building, which will be very tech heavy, should attract cross border students as well as better teachers.

Morton is established on the far east side of town.

Over the years, Gavit has been the strong football chool as compared to Clark.  The majority of gavit students will go to Morton, while the majority of Clark kids will go to Hammond High.  You might even see some Bishop Noll kids go to the new school

The two go forward schools are projected to be in the 1900 student range, solid 5A programs potentially and a real boon to Region football.  The contracted schools will become middle schools.  2021 is the target date for this all to occur.  

South Bend really needs to get moving and get on board with their contraction and consolidation initiatives.  SB schools has twice the capacity it needs for its current student body.

FYI - Hammond has approx 12500 students in the entire public school system, while SB has approx 16000.  SB has the option to go with either 2 high schools or 3.  There has been talk of converting Clay to an educational magnet and moving to an east-west geographic alignment.  

Contracting to two schools could be an economic boon to the city.  You would have two schools offering a full menu of sports with approx 2200 students each.  Better athletic programs means more investment, more fan interest, more participation.

 

 

 

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On 12/16/2019 at 2:11 PM, DACNUT said:

The problem with these urban districts closing schools or just any place where schools close, history shows people just leave and go to the nearest and better looking rural or suburban school. Hammond and South Bend have so much competition with private and charter schools, there is very little these districts will be able to do unless the folks in Indianapolis change the way in which they fund traditional public schools.

 

The reason why urban schools are closing is because people have been moving to suburban schools for 50 years. Suburbanization has been the cause of urban schools closing, not the effect. A closure of a school might accelerate some suburbanization - as, especially in places like Anderson and Muncie, people had emotional ties to the closing school (Highland, South Side) and thus moved their kids to suburban schools (I noticed this a lot when Anderson Highland closed and a number of Highland kids ended up at Pendleton Heights and Yorktown), but that was a special situation with a very, very deep-seated rivalry that made the IU-Purdue rivalry look friendly. 

Hamilton Southeastern's enrollment is very, very close to that of Indianapolis Public Schools (HSE 22K, IPS 25K) and will probably exceed it soon. HSE was a 1A-2A school 35 years ago. 

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6 minutes ago, crimsonace1 said:

The reason why urban schools are closing is because people have been moving to suburban schools for 50 years. Suburbanization has been the cause of urban schools closing, not the effect. A closure of a school might accelerate some suburbanization - as, especially in places like Anderson and Muncie, people had emotional ties to the closing school (Highland, South Side) and thus moved their kids to suburban schools (I noticed this a lot when Anderson Highland closed and a number of Highland kids ended up at Pendleton Heights and Yorktown), but that was a special situation with a very, very deep-seated rivalry that made the IU-Purdue rivalry look friendly. 

Hamilton Southeastern's enrollment is very, very close to that of Indianapolis Public Schools (HSE 22K, IPS 25K) and will probably exceed it soon. HSE was a 1A-2A school 35 years ago. 

Anderson football actually got worse after the contraction of Highland.   How does that happen?

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I am in agreement with crimsonace. Even with the consolidation, there is too much proof to show that when urban schools close, people move to the nearest suburban school. Now Hammond will be a little different in that they are building a new school, but many of those Clark students will not go to the new HS. I easily see as many as possible trying to get into Whiting, or maybe taking their taxpayer/voucher money to Noll. If I am Noll, I'm doing some major recruiting right now. I can't see the people who live in Robertsdale going to the new Hammond High. 

Same thing in South Bend, these districts are at a disadvantage in comparison to larger suburban and rural districts in sports, especially in football, because they have weak feeder programs. It will take a committed administration and coaching staff several years to build a strong program. 

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6 minutes ago, DACNUT said:

I am in agreement with crimsonace. Even with the consolidation, there is too much proof to show that when urban schools close, people move to the nearest suburban school. Now Hammond will be a little different in that they are building a new school, but many of those Clark students will not go to the new HS. I easily see as many as possible trying to get into Whiting, or maybe taking their taxpayer/voucher money to Noll. If I am Noll, I'm doing some major recruiting right now. I can't see the people who live in Robertsdale going to the new Hammond High. 

Same thing in South Bend, these districts are at a disadvantage in comparison to larger suburban and rural districts in sports, especially in football, because they have weak feeder programs. It will take a committed administration and coaching staff several years to build a strong program. 

Can Hammond residents cross over and go to school in Whiting?

How does that work?

Good point about Noll and recruiting..  This is a good opportunity to get their enrollment back up 

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12 minutes ago, DT said:

Anderson football actually got worse after the contraction of Highland.   How does that happen?

Neither program was particularly strong in the years before the consolidation and Anderson's population has been in steady decline for years, but basketball rules the roost in Anderson. And while they were both pretty strong basketball schools, football took a back seat (although Highland had a couple of decent teams in its last years). However, a lot of Highland athletes went to Pendleton Heights and Yorktown rather than Anderson. 

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19 hours ago, crimsonace1 said:

Neither program was particularly strong in the years before the consolidation and Anderson's population has been in steady decline for years, but basketball rules the roost in Anderson. And while they were both pretty strong basketball schools, football took a back seat (although Highland had a couple of decent teams in its last years). However, a lot of Highland athletes went to Pendleton Heights and Yorktown rather than Anderson. 

Same thing in South Bend with basketball ruling the roost.  The interest for football is not as intense.

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7 minutes ago, Gipper said:

Basketball, for the most part, will reign supreme in this land of ours.

Which is another great reason to contract fledgling football programs. 

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23 hours ago, DT said:

Can Hammond residents cross over and go to school in Whiting?

How does that work?

Good point about Noll and recruiting..  This is a good opportunity to get their enrollment back up 

They have been for years, it's only a matter of if Whiting can manage a larger influx of students. 

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Redistricting South Bend will only be a possibility if the district takes into consideration desegregation laws.

 "It wasn’t until 1981, when the federal government filed a lawsuit against South Bend Community School Corp., that a desegregation plan was enacted. The policy relied on dividing the district into pie pieces and busing students." - (From the South Bend Tribune Archives)

Busing students all across town will ALWAYS take place in South Bend as long as they intend on not breaking the federal desegregation law (in other words being in compliance with the law).

 
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1 hour ago, FormerCoach said:

Redistricting South Bend will only be a possibility if the district takes into consideration desegregation laws.

 "It wasn’t until 1981, when the federal government filed a lawsuit against South Bend Community School Corp., that a desegregation plan was enacted. The policy relied on dividing the district into pie pieces and busing students." - (From the South Bend Tribune Archives)

Busing students all across town will ALWAYS take place in South Bend as long as they intend on not breaking the federal desegregation law (in other words being in compliance with the law).

 

Yes . "Plan Z" . take priority.  It would take some time to redistrict the high school boundaries, plus with school choice in the magnet programs, could be a long road.

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2 hours ago, LaSalle Lions 1976 said:

Yes . "Plan Z" . take priority.  It would take some time to redistrict the high school boundaries, plus with school choice in the magnet programs, could be a long road.

I believe one school cannot have more then 50% minority if I am correct.  Can anyone verify that?

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The South Bend schools integrated in 1981 under the terms of the consent decree, a legal agreement that was reached in federal court and remains in effect today. The agreement requires that each school enroll a percentage of black students that is within 15 percentage points of the total percentage of black students in the school corporation.

The latest data, released in November 2017, show that Washington High School and five primary schools are out of compliance.

“It’s not the consent decree that’s the problem. It’s the interpretation,” said Oletha Jones, one of the CAFE organizers and education chair for the South Bend branch of the NAACP.

Neither she nor Albert advocates seeking to end the consent decree.

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24 minutes ago, Indian72 said:

The South Bend schools integrated in 1981 under the terms of the consent decree, a legal agreement that was reached in federal court and remains in effect today. The agreement requires that each school enroll a percentage of black students that is within 15 percentage points of the total percentage of black students in the school corporation.

The latest data, released in November 2017, show that Washington High School and five primary schools are out of compliance.

“It’s not the consent decree that’s the problem. It’s the interpretation,” said Oletha Jones, one of the CAFE organizers and education chair for the South Bend branch of the NAACP.

Neither she nor Albert advocates seeking to end the consent decree.

I wonder what would be the result if all public schools in the county had to be in compliance with the total percentage of black students in the county. I'd venture to say SBCSC would not have quite the numbers problem it does.

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6 hours ago, DT said:

Which is another great reason to contract fledgling football programs. 

There are no good reasons to remove opportunities from student-athletes for the sake of a dumb talking point. 

Only 12 can be on a basketball team. Football has 11 on the field at any given time. 

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1 hour ago, crimsonace1 said:

There are no good reasons to remove opportunities from student-athletes for the sake of a dumb talking point. 

Only 12 can be on a basketball team. Football has 11 on the field at any given time. 

I couldn't disagree more.  The kids at Hammond Clark and Hammond Gavit are going to get their opportunity to play football at Hammond High or Hammond Morton, depending on the new school boundaries, or open enrollment.  Nobody is left behind.  What is left behind are decrepit buildings, old worn out stadiums and equipment and outdated technology.

The exact same thing can happen in South Bend.  

Hammond schools will invest in their athletic programs because they are now positioned for success.  

Same can happen with SB football.  

Rural contraction is a different story.  Kids lose opportunities.  Such is life.  Kids are resilient and move on.

Urban contraction typically results in an overall competitive improvement.

 

 

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6 hours ago, crimsonace1 said:

There are no good reasons to remove opportunities from student-athletes for the sake of a dumb talking point. 

Only 12 can be on a basketball team. Football has 11 on the field at any given time. 

He just doesn’t get it.  I’ve spelled out many times how contraction is a bad idea, but he just won’t listen.  It’s not part of his narrative apparently.

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10 hours ago, Gipper said:

He just doesn’t get it.  I’ve spelled out many times how contraction is a bad idea, but he just won’t listen.  It’s not part of his narrative apparently.

And you and others can't seem to get through your thick skulls the money and resources that could be better allocated to different opportunities, athletic or not.   Money doesn't grow on trees.

 

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A side story to the South Bend education discussion:  https://www.jconline.com/story/news/2019/12/19/purdue-makes-case-its-third-high-school-despite-local-opposition-south-bend/2697321001/

Quote

 Purdue President Mitch Daniels was thanking the South Bend Community School Corp. this week for taking steps to add the university’s third charter high school in the state, this time in South Bend.

The partnership, in the works, is coming despite bitter opposition from community advocates.

During its meeting Monday, the South Bend school board approved a resolution authorizing Superintendent Todd Cummings to begin negotiating an innovation network agreement with Purdue Polytechnic High School South Bend.

Board President John Anella said the agreement would call for Purdue Polytechnic High School to be located inside Washington High School and that students attending the charter high school are also accepted into athletic and other extracurricular programs offered at the South Bend high school.

“We have to be at least willing to entertain new ideas. It doesn’t mean that we have to do it, but we have to be open-minded,” Anella said before the final 5-1 board vote. “It has to make sense for the students and the community of Washington High School and South Bend if we do anything like this. This is never taken lightly.”

Purdue Polytechnic, a charter network founded by Purdue University with a focus in science, technology, engineering and math (STEM), is expected to open its South Bend high school in fall 2020. The school, which aims to enroll low-income and minority students, will accept up to 125 ninth-grade students on a lottery basis.

Instead of attending traditional classes, students at Purdue Polytechnic act independently and are engaged in project-based learning in conjunction with industry partners like Eli Lilly and Co. and Citizens Energy Group.

In a previous report by The Tribune, Cummings said students who would enroll and graduate from Purdue Polytechnic High School would be given a “huge leg-up” as they are capable of earning college credit and are guaranteed admission to Purdue Polytechnic Institute.

Daniels has made a Purdue-sponsored high school system across the state a priority since the first one opened in downtown Indianapolis in 2017 and a second one in Indianapolis’ Broad Ripple neighborhood in 2018.

....

Many of the school choice haters on this forum have to be seething about Purdue jumping into the mix.

 

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