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4 minutes ago, Temptation said:

Yep, I am a USATF Level 2 certified track and field coach...WAY OVER my head...

Please tell me more.

Then you of all people should know that track speed (also timed-speed, that's all track is) doesn't necessarily translate to the football feed.

Put Usain Bolt on the goal line with say someone like Matthew Slater of the Patriots and have them run from one goal line to the other, Bolt wins by 7 or 8 steps if not more.

Put Bolt on one sideline and Slater on the other with an 11 man kick off team in-between them, want to be who gets to the ball fastest?

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1 hour ago, foxbat said:

Perhaps, but then again, not always.  Depends on the kid and the situation.  Dru Anthrop was a basketball walk-on at Purdue.  Played as a member of the team for three years as a walk-on and was offered a scholarship in his fourth year.  Got to play in his backyard on the same team that his dad played on ... his dad was also a Purdue walk-on that eventually got a scholarship in the last year of his college career.  I'd heard, but haven't confirmed, that at the time that Dru was graduating, the he and his dad were the only father-son tandem to have won a Big 10 championship.  I've got to imagine that's something quite special that they share that may make up for some of the other perks that might have been missed.

 

Referring strictly to football and I’m sure it various from school to school. PWO’s miss out on perks and pay a lot of money to be scout team and part of a program. Certainly are exceptions to that. Would not surprise me if he earns a scholarship before he is finished at IU. 

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37 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Then you of all people should know that track speed (also timed-speed, that's all track is) doesn't necessarily translate to the football feed.

Put Usain Bolt on the goal line with say someone like Matthew Slater of the Patriots and have them run from one goal line to the other, Bolt wins by 7 or 8 steps if not more.

Put Bolt on one sideline and Slater on the other with an 11 man kick off team in-between them, want to be who gets to the ball fastest?

What you are referring to here relates more to football specific training.  Slater has more experience/practice/expertise in getting through blockers to get to the ball but that somehow now makes him FASTER than Bolt or discredits Bolt's speed because its not on a football field?  Give both the same amount of sport-specific training and the difference would be negligible (or Bolt would still win by the 7-8 steps you mentioned.)

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2 minutes ago, Temptation said:

What you are referring to here relates more to football specific training.  Slater has more experience/practice/expertise in getting through blockers to get to the ball but that somehow now makes him FASTER than Bolt or discredits Bolt's speed because its not on a football field?  Give both the same amount of sport-specific training and the difference would be negligible (or Bolt would still win by the 7-8 steps you mentioned.)

Aren't you the same poster who said; "speed is speed"?

If you can't grasp that flat line, straight speed doesn't always equate to the football field, then I can't help you. If the key to success in football was getting the fastest guys in the world (you know the track guys) then you would see more world class sprinters on NFL rosters. Period.

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I quickly read through 6 pages on this thread and it grew tiresome.  I strongly root for Tom Allen and IU football and believe it is beginning to be nationally relevant and he/program will begin to pull top IN guys consistently.   Is current all time leading rusher one of those...yes.  Is he one of the best RB's in the nation in his class, I don't think so.  But he is a PWO and a smart move by IU.  Prove Hoosier staff (and other D1 prorams) wrong and he'll be a scholarship guy after 1-2 years, his choice to roll those dice as I am sure FCS and D2 offers were there.  I guarantee he will be a phenomenal scout team guy as next season starts.  As has been much defended on here by the New Pal supporters is that he is a team first player, and being so, I am glad to see him as a part of IU football.  My best wishes to him as he continues his football career and is able to use his talents to hopefully get four or more years out of this great game!

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Regarding the football speed, here's another example. A friend of mine has been an NFL official for 5 or 6 years. I remember talking to him after his first season and asking if the players were much faster compared to the B1G. He said it wasn't so much open field speed because the B1G has plenty of fast guys. It was other areas. For example, he said a defensive lineman rushing through a gap goes down with minimal contact. When he watched the video he saw the offensive lineman was able to stick his foot out and back to so fast he couldn't see it with the naked eye. It just looked like incidental contact on the field. I'm sure there are dozens of examples like this. Pursuit angles for defenders, change of direction by runners and route receivers, effective use of hands to initiate or shed blocks. Those aren't necessarily something you can teach Usain Bolt just because he can run really fast in a straight line.

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22 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

Aren't you the same poster who said; "speed is speed"?

If you can't grasp that flat line, straight speed doesn't always equate to the football field, then I can't help you. If the key to success in football was getting the fastest guys in the world (you know the track guys) then you would see more world class sprinters on NFL rosters. Period.

Do you know how many world class (or near world class) sprinters are on NFL rosters?  I bet doing some research would have you retracting that statement.  There are several.  Speed is speed, and skill is skill.  Put the two of them in combination, and you get hall of fame guys like Rod Woodson. 

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8 minutes ago, eschnur66 said:

Do you know how many world class (or near world class) sprinters are on NFL rosters?  I bet doing some research would have you retracting that statement.  There are several.  Speed is speed, and skill is skill.  Put the two of them in combination, and you get hall of fame guys like Rod Woodson. 

Less than 1% of the entire NFL are world class sprinters/could compete in a 100 yard dash with elite track athletes.

I'll make that bet all day of the week. 

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2 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Less than 1% of the entire NFL are world class sprinters/could compete in a 100 yard dash.

I'll make that bet all day of the week. 

That means there are around 18.5 world class sprinters in the NFL.  I would certainly take that bet with you.  World Record is 9.58 and the times in the 2016 Olympic finals ranged from 9.81-10.06, so world class means @ 10.5 and below.  I am going to figure this out today!  

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3 minutes ago, eschnur66 said:

That means there are around 18.5 world class sprinters in the NFL.  I would certainly take that bet with you.  World Record is 9.58 and the times in the 2016 Olympic finals ranged from 9.81-10.06, so world class means @ 10.5 and below.  I am going to figure this out today!  

Knock yourself out!

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Was not all that difficult after all.  Running 4.4 in the 40 yard dash is considered world class.  Since 2010 there have been 147 players drafted who run 4.4 or faster.  Of those 147, I counted 50 that are still on an NFL roster, but that number could actually be higher.  That means that approximately 2.7% of the players in the NFL are among the fastest sprinters in the world.  That is a pretty high number, IMO.  To me that means there are maybe some 25-30 guys that could potentially be Olympic sprinters  if they just trained for that!

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1 hour ago, eschnur66 said:

Was not all that difficult after all.  Running 4.4 in the 40 yard dash is considered world class.  Since 2010 there have been 147 players drafted who run 4.4 or faster.  Of those 147, I counted 50 that are still on an NFL roster, but that number could actually be higher.  That means that approximately 2.7% of the players in the NFL are among the fastest sprinters in the world.  That is a pretty high number, IMO.  To me that means there are maybe some 25-30 guys that could potentially be Olympic sprinters  if they just trained for that!

The 40 yard dash in not an Olympic or sanctioned track event. You understand that most world class sprinters pull away once they get into meters 60-70-80, etc. Someone like Usain Bolt is capped in a 40 yard dash based on reaction/start time. A world class sprinters 40 meter interval between meters 60-100 would blow out most NFL players 40 meter interval in meters 60-100.

Go back on what you initially said and find me 18 or more NFL players who run sub 10.5 100 meters.

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5 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

The 40 yard dash in not an Olympic or sanctioned track event. You understand that most world class sprinters pull away once they get into meters 60-70-80, etc. Someone like Usain Bolt is capped in a 40 yard dash based on reaction/start time. A world class sprinters 40 meter interval between meters 60-100 would blow out most NFL players 40 meter interval in meters 60-100.

Go back on what you initially said and find me 18 or more NFL players who run sub 10.5 100 meters.

You're so confused.

Usain Bolt would probably not be an NFL quality football player, but it wouldn't be due to a lack of speed.  You seem to think that there is some sort of differing definition of the term "speed" dependent upon what sport you are playing.  I'll stick with my original statement.  All of those intangibles that you mentioned preventing some with track speed from being elite on the football field are due to a unique skill set required for football.  Track only guys may not possess those but to insinuate that their talent in the SPEED category might not translate is a joke.

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28 minutes ago, Temptation said:

You're so confused.

Usain Bolt would probably not be an NFL quality football player, but it wouldn't be due to a lack of speed.  You seem to think that there is some sort of differing definition of the term "speed" dependent upon what sport you are playing.  I'll stick with my original statement.  All of those intangibles that you mentioned preventing some with track speed from being elite on the football field are due to a unique skill set required for football.  Track only guys may not possess those but to insinuate that their talent in the SPEED category might not translate is a joke.

I'm not confused about anything.

Straight line speed does not always translate on the football field. Yes there are guys with blazing fast straight line speed (Tyreke Hill) who also excel on the football field, but being able to run from point A to point B in a straight line the fastest doesn't necessarily translate because football isn't played from point A to point B in a straight line. That's not how the game works. If NFL GM's, coaches, and scouts thought that's how the game works, you'd see a lot more world class sprinters in the NFL right now being taught a different set of skills. 

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14 hours ago, TrojanDad said:

Anyone know how we went from Charlie Spegal’s IU commitment to the debate on straight line speed vs football speed?  

https://images.app.goo.gl/6S336HMoFmbwiAjM7

 

Yes.  There is a direct correlation  Charlie did not receive a full ride D1 scholarship due solely to his lack of speed.  Speed and vision when hitting the hole at the line of scrimmage and breaking into the secondary are not the same as open field speed.  Charlie's specialty is the former, as confirmed by his HC in a recent interview.

Charlie can break away from high school defensive backs, but he will run into much quicker secondary players at the next level.  Recruiters know this clearly and have graded him as such.  Its a fair assessment.  Nothing personal.  

 

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13 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

DT....you have referenced Stevie Scott. 2nd team all Big 10 this year. I provided data in an earlier post on his documented 40 time of 4.83. I never hear you reference him as slow. 

According to this source, Charlie has 4.6 40 speed. Yet according to you he is slow and a D2 player. 

Why the inconsistency??

https://www.ncsasports.org/football-recruiting/indiana/new-palestine/new-palestine-high-school/charlie-spegal

BTW, you are incorrect in your statement Charlie did not get D1 offers. Army is FBS, Indiana State is FCS. Both D1 programs. 

I don't recall seeing Scott break a long run this past season

He avg 4.7 ypc.  Pretty good average.  But not a real threat to break a long run.

Id like to see us get a back with real breakaway open field speed.  Allen will find one in Fl or GA.  There are none to be found in Indiana.  

Bottom line is, Scott had several P5 D1 offers.  Spegal had none.  I trust the recruiters and the metrics they use more than what the high schools report.  

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1 hour ago, TrojanDad said:

You need to take some time to do your homework. Several D1 offers for Scott?  Who besides Rutgers, UMass and IU?  

Stop saying Spegal received zero D1 offers. That’s flat out wrong!!!  I just covered that. 

You lose tons of credibility when you state things that are simply wrong!

Read my post.  I said P5 D1 offers.  

I see lots of offers here for Scott

 

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/player/_/id/227173/stevie-scott

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