Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
btownqbcoach

Turf 2020 and Beyond

Recommended Posts

On 12/11/2019 at 10:09 AM, Impartial_Observer said:

It's impossible to justify the initial install. Replacing the turf after the initial install is justifiable. 

It's easier when you realize that you can really only use a grass football game field about 10-15x a year for games (5-8 varsity games, 4-5 JV games, 4-5 frosh games), which requires maintenance of a separate practice field. Maybe the band uses it once a week. 

At New Pal, maintenance of our grass field was very costly, as we had to regularly re-sod and re-patch, even with use only on game days. 

With turf, the field is in use almost every day - the baseball/softball teams use it for cold-weather practices, the varsity football team practices on it every day (which allowed conversion of one of our football practice fields to a grass soccer practice field, which allowed for both soccer teams and the V/JV and F football teams to practice simultaneously), the youth football league has its championship games there (as well as some youth all-star games), the junior high team also plays at least one game a year there, it hosts soccer games and practices, et al. Also provides opportunities for revenue generation as travel soccer teams rent the facility for practices & games. Because of turf, the stadium has become a multi-use facility that is used 250+ days a year. 

One interesting thing of note - a decade ago, it was rare to play a game on turf. This year, all 14 New Palestine games were played on turf (8 home games on turf + away games at Kokomo, Center Grove, Greenfield-Central, Delta, Whiteland and Lucas Oil Stadium). 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, crimsonace1 said:

It's easier when you realize that you can really only use a grass football game field about 10-15x a year for games (5-8 varsity games, 4-5 JV games, 4-5 frosh games), which requires maintenance of a separate practice field. Maybe the band uses it once a week. 

At New Pal, maintenance of our grass field was very costly, as we had to regularly re-sod and re-patch, even with use only on game days. 

With turf, the field is in use almost every day - the baseball/softball teams use it for cold-weather practices, the varsity football team practices on it every day (which allowed conversion of one of our football practice fields to a grass soccer practice field, which allowed for both soccer teams and the V/JV and F football teams to practice simultaneously), the youth football league has its championship games there (as well as some youth all-star games), the junior high team also plays at least one game a year there, it hosts soccer games and practices, et al. Also provides opportunities for revenue generation as travel soccer teams rent the facility for practices & games. Because of turf, the stadium has become a multi-use facility that is used 250+ days a year. 

One interesting thing of note - a decade ago, it was rare to play a game on turf. This year, all 14 New Palestine games were played on turf (8 home games on turf + away games at Kokomo, Center Grove, Greenfield-Central, Delta, Whiteland and Lucas Oil Stadium). 

I totally get what you're saying. And I agree there are schools out there that put money into and do maintenance on their fields. But that's not the majority of schools. 

If you look at a base of 750K for the initial install and figure 12 years for the life of the surface you're looking at 62.5K a year in maintenance costs. Even adding some sod now and then, mowing, chemicals, grass seed, water, etc., I don't think you're going to come up with 62.5K a year in maintenance costs. 

As I stated earlier, it's hard to quantify all the other events that are now possible with the artificial surface and put a price tag on them. I'm not arguing against it, I'm just saying the initial cost is hard to justify from a financial standpoint. 

Lastly why is it that every time it rains on Friday night, we're always on one of the worse grass/dirt fields the state has to offer?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said:

I totally get what you're saying. And I agree there are schools out there that put money into and do maintenance on their fields. But that's not the majority of schools. 

If you look at a base of 750K for the initial install and figure 12 years for the life of the surface you're looking at 62.5K a year in maintenance costs. Even adding some sod now and then, mowing, chemicals, grass seed, water, etc., I don't think you're going to come up with 62.5K a year in maintenance costs. 

As I stated earlier, it's hard to quantify all the other events that are now possible with the artificial surface and put a price tag on them. I'm not arguing against it, I'm just saying the initial cost is hard to justify from a financial standpoint. 

Lastly why is it that every time it rains on Friday night, we're always on one of the worse grass/dirt fields the state has to offer?

I think if you figure in usage you can get closer to quantifying the cost. Using it 20-30 times a year at a cost of say $200k (use this number because that is what we had spent to just grass maintenance over the previous 15 years) every 15 years on sod. Compared to using it hundreds of times a year for $750k every 12 years and supposedly the initial cost is much higher than the re-surface.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Impartial_Observer said:

As I stated earlier, it's hard to quantify all the other events that are now possible with the artificial surface and put a price tag on them. I'm not arguing against it, I'm just saying the initial cost is hard to justify from a financial standpoint.

I would love someone who has had to financially justify it to share their results. When I've talked with the decision makers on this (various ADs when we've been working games) they said it was pretty easy to justify over a 10-year period, especially when you factor in the ability to use it much more often. And that doesn't include the washing expense or equipment replacement for all the officials who can't get mud stains out of their uniforms or have to buy new shoes because theirs are muddy beyond belief.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Artificial Turf - An extravagance for high school football, a game played by children for the enjoyment of primarily adults.

 

  • Disdain 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/13/2019 at 10:56 AM, crimsonace1 said:

It's easier when you realize that you can really only use a grass football game field about 10-15x a year for games (5-8 varsity games, 4-5 JV games, 4-5 frosh games), which requires maintenance of a separate practice field. Maybe the band uses it once a week. 

At New Pal, maintenance of our grass field was very costly, as we had to regularly re-sod and re-patch, even with use only on game days. 

With turf, the field is in use almost every day - the baseball/softball teams use it for cold-weather practices, the varsity football team practices on it every day (which allowed conversion of one of our football practice fields to a grass soccer practice field, which allowed for both soccer teams and the V/JV and F football teams to practice simultaneously), the youth football league has its championship games there (as well as some youth all-star games), the junior high team also plays at least one game a year there, it hosts soccer games and practices, et al. Also provides opportunities for revenue generation as travel soccer teams rent the facility for practices & games. Because of turf, the stadium has become a multi-use facility that is used 250+ days a year. 

One interesting thing of note - a decade ago, it was rare to play a game on turf. This year, all 14 New Palestine games were played on turf (8 home games on turf + away games at Kokomo, Center Grove, Greenfield-Central, Delta, Whiteland and Lucas Oil Stadium). 

LCC tends to use their grass field a lot more often.  Seems like there's always something on that field throughout the week.  They do boys' and girls' soccer, JV and varsity football games, both 7th and 8th grade junior high games, and four youth games just about every 2nd or 3rd weekend depending on the season.  Field took a beating this year, but held up fairly well right up until the got to roughly the sectionals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/11/2019 at 10:22 AM, DannEllenwood said:

HS-I would still take a natural playing surface like NJSP over any turf field.

College-I would still take a natural playing surface like LSU over any turf field.

Pro-I would still take a natural playing surface like Green Bay over any turf field.

Regardless of conditions.  To me, that's part of football.  Both teams need to play in the elements.

Get rid of domes/retractables too.

#NowGetOffMyLawn

If I were just a fan, I would agree. To clarify, Green Bay has a mixed field. They have natural grass growing on a turf field. That said, I don’t think they are far off from going fully artificial. It has only been in recent years that Lambeau has started holding concerts there. The wear and tear on the grass is noticeable. 
As far as ROI, I can say from our experience, it has been tremendous. Don’t just think football here. Our PE classes can do so much more outside without having to worry about tracking mud in the building during the school day. Band competitions require an artificial surface now for hosting an event. Ours will be doing that in the near future. It is nice from a football perspective to know that weather is much less of a factor. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Norwell has turf now, and played on it this last season. Columbia City does not have it yet, but the new campus includes a new stadium and a turf field. They will be in their current building and on the current field one more season. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/16/2019 at 6:52 AM, Irishman said:

Norwell has turf now, and played on it this last season. Columbia City does not have it yet, but the new campus includes a new stadium and a turf field. They will be in their current building and on the current field one more season. 

Thank you very much. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, btownqbcoach said:

I thought someone might have mentioned that Carroll was getting turf? 

Carroll will be relocating/turning Gorsuch Field in a couple of years, and adding turf at that time.  2021 or 2022.

Bank it!  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Yuccaguy said:

Carroll will be relocating/turning Gorsuch Field in a couple of years, and adding turf at that time.  2021 or 2022.

Bank it!  

As in this isn't an opinion? This has been voted on and passed? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/19/2019 at 7:40 AM, btownqbcoach said:

As in this isn't an opinion? This has been voted on and passed? 

As in.  It is included in the master planning within the school expansion and relocation of parking....etc.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Yuccaguy said:

As in.  It is included in the master planning within the school expansion and relocation of parking....etc.  

So simple answer... yes it has been. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for all your hard work on this subject of turf. 

 

I am curious, has anyone ever compared the cost per year of grass upkeep - mowing, irrigation,  painting, rolling, seed/fertilization, arriate - vs. Turf.

And, the lack of the grass-care each week for an entire year.  Still have to do these things when the time is appropriate football season or not.

 

Is the price of caring for real grass worth the turf exchange?

I know a local school that just went through track renovation,  recrown the field, with new grass, drainage, etc. The sidelines are still not right, standing water after it rains.  The track itself is beautiful and long overdue.   The rest, well, IMO, you get what you pay for.  The school corporation was overcharged when you consider quality of work for the bid charged.

 

Once again, just curious!

 

As always, the game is better 

from_the_sidelines007 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, from_the_sidelines007 said:

Thanks for all your hard work on this subject of turf. 

I am curious, has anyone ever compared the cost per year of grass upkeep - mowing, irrigation,  painting, rolling, seed/fertilization, arriate - vs. Turf.

And, the lack of the grass-care each week for an entire year.  Still have to do these things when the time is appropriate football season or not.

Is the price of caring for real grass worth the turf exchange?

I know a local school that just went through track renovation,  recrown the field, with new grass, drainage, etc. The sidelines are still not right, standing water after it rains.  The track itself is beautiful and long overdue.   The rest, well, IMO, you get what you pay for.  The school corporation was overcharged when you consider quality of work for the bid charged.

Once again, just curious!

As always, the game is better 

from_the_sidelines007 

Pretty sure every school who has ever gone to turf has done this. Everyone I've ever talked with has said the payoff is 8-10 years. You pay more up front but your annual expense is much less. This is true especially when you factor in the ability to use it much often during the year. It could even be a revenue source for schools.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

West Washington is currently discussing the possibility. Hopefully soon we shall know. I'm alllll for it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mater Dei, No personal home field, but they do play at the Reitz Bowl, which is turf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, SoIndRef said:

Mater Dei, No personal home field, but they do play at the Reitz Bowl, which is turf

They have a turf field at the school that they practice on and I believe they use it for JV and Freshman games. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/3/2020 at 3:23 PM, SoIndRef said:

Mater Dei, No personal home field, but they do play at the Reitz Bowl, which is turf

I know. They don't use their own field though. They have their own category. 

Madison is getting turf, who else?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...