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Can Elkhart Dethrone Penn and Become King of the North?


Guest DT

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1 minute ago, BTF said:

Elkhart could be king of the north if the right coach comes along. Kevin Wright + Elkhart = appearance at state. 

Solid choice of words, very subtle:

“APPEARANCE”...singular.

“APPEARANCE”...not “victory.”

Agree on both accounts.  It CAN be done...just not sure year in and year out.

 

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5 minutes ago, roscoeguy said:

It would be fun to listen to the Penn fans on this conversation as for some reason DT has annointed Penn the king of football in the north.  Have at that Kingsman nation....

He didn’t anoint anyone.  It’s simple math.

Penn has been the consistent barometer of northern Indiana big school football.  Anyone with a pulse can see that.  They’ve made consistent trips to LOS (5 times since 2000) and when they haven’t, have been knocked out by central Indiana juggernaut Carmel in the semi state FOUR times.

The only other programs with any substance of an argument would be Valpo and Snider.  The Kingsmen are 17-7 vs Valpo and 5-1 against Snider in that same time frame.

Some of you just search for bulletin board material to fire at DT...

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1 minute ago, Temptation said:

Solid choice of words, very subtle:

“APPEARANCE”...singular.

“APPEARANCE”...not “victory.”

Agree on both accounts.  It CAN be done...just not sure year in and year out.

 

I think there are enough good programs up north to prevent a year in and year out situation. Penn, Snider, Valpo, and Merrillville. I'm just saying a good coach could make Elkhart dangerous with those kinds of numbers to work with. 

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9 minutes ago, Temptation said:

He didn’t anoint anyone.  It’s simple math.

Penn has been the consistent barometer of northern Indiana big school football.  Anyone with a pulse can see that.  They’ve made consistent trips to LOS (5 times since 2000) and when they haven’t, have been knocked out by central Indiana juggernaut Carmel in the semi state FOUR times.

The only other programs with any substance of an argument would be Valpo and Snider.  The Kingsmen are 17-7 vs Valpo and 5-1 against Snider in that same time frame.

Some of you just search for bulletin board material to fire at DT...

Hmmmm. Heading over to JH's..............be right back.

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8 minutes ago, BTF said:

I think there are enough good programs up north to prevent a year in and year out situation. Penn, Snider, Valpo, and Merrillville. I'm just saying a good coach could make Elkhart dangerous with those kinds of numbers to work with. 

I agree.  Never thought about Wright.  Won’t happen but your point is well made.

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I'm showing Penn is 5-2 against Snider since 2000. An upset by Carroll in the first round of 2012 prevented a what would have been loss number three. But your point is valid. Penn won 4 of the last 5 against Snider. 

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5 minutes ago, DT said:

Wright is a little too polished and buttoned down for Elkhart

Russ Isaacs - Bart Curtis type is better fit

 

Isaacs bleeds black and gold. He's perfectly happy as Tippmann's "assistant". Personally? I'd love to see him take over another program.................. even if that would mean a big hit to the Snider program. Won't ever happen though. 

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12 minutes ago, BTF said:

I'm showing Penn is 5-2 against Snider since 2000. An upset by Carroll in the first round of 2012 prevented a what would have been loss number three. But your point is valid. Penn won 4 of the last 5 against Snider. 

8-9 all time record, Snider vs Penn. Snider held the upper hand back in 80 and early 90's, think things swung to Penn's favor has they got bigger and Snider stagnated on growth in mid 90's

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8 minutes ago, roscoeguy said:

BTF review Penns record the past two years and get back to us on the math 

Lol, 14-8. But I don't think they should lose their king of the north designation just yet. They had 5 straight semi-state appearances leading up to 2018. Snider has always been a close second. Merrillville and Valpo were good this year, but neither of them are certainly worthy of the designation. Who would be your "king of the north?"

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I agree with you up to 2018 for sure as Penn was the dominant program in the north no questions.  Bad losses last year to Mishawaka(to a great Mishawaka team) and to Valpo in the playoffs (21-0 at home) revealed the problems that really were worse this year (bad losses to 5a Valpo, a 4a NP, and rival Warsaw in the playoffs.  Heck, they struggled to beat a one win Portage team in the playoffs.  Prob will not be a consistently dominant team in the north going forward, like Penn was in the past.  The past two years it has been Valpo (6a semistate 2018, 5a runnerup 2019)  

The original post by DT does raise a very good point about Elkhart and their future.  My bet is Penn will return to be a very strong team, though maybe not as dominant as they were in the past.  They are just too big with too much tradition to not be good .  In a way, I think the rise of a strong Elkhart program and a resurgent Warsaw under BC is the best thing to happen for Penn.  Maybe the regional competition will make all the teams better

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3 minutes ago, roscoeguy said:

I agree with you up to 2018 for sure as Penn was the dominant program in the north no questions.  Bad losses last year to Mishawaka(to a great Mishawaka team) and to Valpo in the playoffs (21-0 at home) revealed the problems that really were worse this year (bad losses to 5a Valpo, a 4a NP, and rival Warsaw in the playoffs.  Heck, they struggled to beat a one win Portage team in the playoffs.  Prob will not be a consistently dominant team in the north going forward, like Penn was in the past.  The past two years it has been Valpo (6a semistate 2018, 5a runnerup 2019)  

The original post by DT does raise a very good point about Elkhart and their future.  My bet is Penn will return to be a very strong team, though maybe not as dominant as they were in the past.  They are just too big with too much tradition to not be good .  In a way, I think the rise of a strong Elkhart program and a resurgent Warsaw under BC is the best thing to happen for Penn.  Maybe the regional competition will make all the teams better

Elkhart - Penn has the potential to become a great long term rivalry.  

Similar to Ben Davis - Carmel.  Penn and Carmel are the rich suburban megaschools, while Ben Davis and Elkhart are the racially and economically diverse city-suburb schools.  

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16 hours ago, Temptation said:

Speaking of which, I’m now looking at two sets of numbers...

The DOE stats show Penn around 3800 students while the most recent IHSAA enrollment figures are just above 3300...which is it?

It's 3300, as 490 of those students in that 3800 are students Grade 12 plus (Students with IEP generally make up this number as they can stay in school  with supports until age 21),  which the IHSAA doesn't include in their count. 

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16 hours ago, roscoeguy said:

It would be fun to listen to the Penn fans on this conversation as for some reason DT has annointed Penn the king of football in the north.  Have at that Kingsman nation....

In football, as all sports, you're as good as your last game...

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24 minutes ago, Gipper said:

In football, as all sports, you're as good as your last game...

 An embarrassing take... so 31 6A programs must suck?  

A couple of poor seasons (by Penn’s standards) does not erase decades of success.

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I really think Penn is positioning themselves to keep being successful for the next decade by playing out-of-state powerhouse programs, Cathedral, and then Elkhart Consolidated, during the regular season. 

Just three years ago, they played for a 6A State Championship after shellacking Carmel in Semistate. Their past two seasons are definitely below Penn expectations but they'll get the ship righted and future Penn/Valpo/Warsaw/Elkhart post-season battles will only make the North that much better for years to come. 

 

 

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  • 2 months later...

Coach Shattuck Has already started his feeder system when he came to Central. They are already working out with the kids now. over 70 kids coming in at a regular basis for lifting and workouts. Kids from both schools are pretty excited. looks they are buying into the system. Will they dethrone Penn? That is something we will have to see in the next 10 years. Way too early for that kind of talk. These kids are hungry and working hard. No easy schedule, especially at the front. It will be exciting to see 

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If you check the amount of unsportsmanlike penalties that have declined since this staff has taken over. I believe it is instilling discipline into the program. along again with the number of kids that show up for current workouts from both schools. I believe that the gelling is going in the right direction.

 

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