SIAC vs The SAC - Who now has the upper hand?

[Guest DT]

The MIC and The HCC are clearly the top two football conferences in the state.

Ft Wayne's Summit Athletic Conference has generally been viewed as 3rd best,  but given recent success, the newly expanded SIAC may be making a move up the ladder.

Lots of similarities between the SIAC and the SAC.  Both now with 10 schools.  Both with a city core of 6 schools plus 2 PPs, and now both with two new schools from outlying areas.

Both schools play a 9 game round robin conference schedule, with no out of conference competition.

There are pros and cons to the round robin, but on the whole, the SAC people tend to value low travel over better non con opposition.  Surely the SIAC schools will be much happier avoiding trips to Terre Haute and Kentucky to fill their full slate of 9 games.

From a talent standpoint, The SAC has the upper hand, as the conference has regularly sent student athletes off to football factories at Ohio State, Michigan State and Notre Dame consistently over the past several decades.

Staff turnover has been minimal in both leagues.

Will Vincennes and Jasper impact the SIAC as Homestead and Carroll have the SAC?

Are Reitz and Snider still kingpins of their respective conferences, or are new challengers on the horizon?

Who has the upper hand currently?  Memorial and Mater Dei or Dwenger and Luers?

Who now has the inside track on that coveted #3 position?  Or could another conference lay claim as well?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by DT

[Guest]

The SAC is its own.  The SIAC is its own.  Not fair to compare.

[Guest DT]

16 minutes ago, Temptation said:

The SAC is its own.  The SIAC is its own.  Not fair to compare.

Ridiculous.  Of course its fair to compare.

We've been comparing the MIC and The HCC all year, with you right in the middle of it.

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, DT said:

Ridiculous.  Of course its fair to compare.

We've been comparing the MIC and The HCC all year, with you right in the middle of it.

 

How tall are you, because this one just went right over your head...

[BTF]

Top three are cut and dry. MIC, HCC, SAC.............in that order. 

[BTF]

I really didn't think there was a comparison between the two conferences. So I went to Sagarin to see if I was wrong. I have much respect for Evansville area football, but I don't think they challenge for the SAC for third. 

Homestead over Memorial by 11

Dwenger over Central by 18

Carroll over Mater Dei by 15

Snider over Castle by 16

Concordia over Jasper by 6

FW North over Evansville North by 2

Northrop over Reitz by 5

Luers over Vincennes by 4

Wayne over Bosse by 12

FW South over Harrison by 21

 

 

 

[Gipper]

Slow news day?

[BTF]

19 minutes ago, Gipper said:

Slow news day?

It's a good topic. I just think there is a gap between the SAC and the next best.

DT brought up some interesting points though. One being Snider's reign as the SAC's premier team. The main contender has actually been a contender for decades..............Dwenger. Jason Garrett is a great coach and has been stellar in his first two seasons. Of course having a guy like Casey Kolkman on his staff helps.  We will know over the next few years whether or not this conference belongs to the Panthers or Saints. Snider will always be near the top with Russ Bush (48 years with the program), Russ Isaacs (43), and Kurt Tippmann (28) leading the charge. 

There will be a lot of talk in 2020 about Carroll and Homestead. Carroll looks to have enough pieces of the puzzle coming back to dethrone Homestead and take the bell (victory bell that goes so conference champ). The Chargers also have a pretty good coach. Doug Dinan was an assistant under Russ Isaacs for 17 years at Snider. He knows what he's doing. Homestead returns QB Luke Goode. That in itself makes the Spartans a contender. 

Four great teams at the top. Then you have Concordia, Luers, and maybe Northrop (still waiting for them to breakout) on the outside looking in. Should be a fun 2020. 

[psaboy]

6 minutes ago, BTF said:

It's a good topic. I just think there is a gap between the SAC and the next best.

DT brought up some interesting points though. One being Snider's reign as the SAC's premier team. The main contender has actually been a contender for decades..............Dwenger. Jason Garrett is a great coach and has been stellar in his first two seasons. Of course having a guy like Casey Kolkman on his staff helps.  We will know over the next few years whether or not this conference belongs to the Panthers or Saints. Snider will always be near the top with Russ Bush (48 years with the program), Russ Isaacs (43), and Kurt Tippmann (28) leading the charge. 

There will be a lot of talk in 2020 about Carroll and Homestead. Carroll looks to have enough pieces of the puzzle coming back to dethrone Homestead and take the bell (victory bell that goes so conference champ). The Chargers also have a pretty good coach. Doug Dinan was an assistant under Russ Isaacs for 17 years at Snider. He knows what he's doing. Homestead returns QB Luke Goode. That in itself makes the Spartans a contender. 

Four great teams at the top. Then you have Concordia, Luers, and maybe Northrop (still waiting for them to breakout) on the outside looking in. Should be a fun 2020. 

You may have North Side bumping up to the second tier in the SAC in 2020. I think they have a good core coming back?? SAC is easily the #3 

[Guest DT]

Bottom of the SAC has been very weak and inconsistent.  Luers had a very poor season.   Snider not quite what it has been

I see Homestead as the future kingpin in this conference.  

SIAC a little more balanced.  Just two weak teams at the bottom in Bosse and Harrison.  Addition of Jasper and Vincennes will be interesting to watch

Duneland also had a pretty good year.  Merrillville and Valpo can play with anyone in The SAC.  And SAC bottom dwellers a notch below those in the DAC

The three (SAC, SIAC, DAC) getting closer 

Edited December 19, 2019 by DT

[Guest]

5 hours ago, DT said:

Bottom of the SAC has been very weak and inconsistent.  Luers had a very poor season.   Snider not quite what it has been

I see Homestead as the future kingpin in this conference.  

SIAC a little more balanced.  Just two weak teams at the bottom in Bosse and Harrison.  Addition of Jasper and Vincennes will be interesting to watch

Duneland also had a pretty good year.  Merrillville and Valpo can play with anyone in The SAC.  And SAC bottom dwellers a notch below those in the DAC

The three (SAC, SIAC, DAC) getting closer 

I agree but throw Carroll in too.  Both they and Homestead fit nearly the exact same enrollment and free/reduced profile as Center Grove...and both are growing.

(I would also throw in a consideration for both to move to the HCC here but it’d probably not go over well...oops.)

Edited December 19, 2019 by Guest

[psaboy]

1 hour ago, Temptation said:

I agree but throw Carroll in too.  Both they and Homestead fit nearly the exact same enrollment and free/reduced profile as Center Grove...and both are growing.

(I would also throw in a consideration for both to move to the HCC here but it’d probably not go over well...oops.)

I know you like stirring the pot, but why would they want to travel 80-100 miles for road games 4-5 times a year vs. 15-20?? Good try though. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, psaboy said:

I know you like stirring the pot, but why would they want to travel 80-100 miles for road games 4-5 times a year vs. 15-20?? Good try though. 

Oh boy...

[reitzguy]

The addition of Jasper and Lincoln make the SIAC no different that is has been. I am only talking football. Dont care about the other sports. Not sure why people are thinking these additions put our conferance as one of the best.

[BTF]

9 hours ago, DT said:

Duneland also had a pretty good year.  Merrillville and Valpo can play with anyone in The SAC.  

I'm surprised you didn't mention the DAC in the first place. They would be my pick to challenge the SAC. And yes, Merrillville and Valpo would fit in nicely at the top of the SAC. I think what separates the SAC and DAC is depth. South Side is really the only bottom dweller. Wayne was near the top just a couple of years ago, as was Luers. They will both have a run on talent and climb back up again. 

 

9 hours ago, DT said:

I see Homestead as the future kingpin in this conference.  

Homestead would be my 3rd pick to challenge. If Garrett and Kolkman stay together, Dwenger may be the kingpin of the SAC. Homestead is the same community it was 16 years ago with the same coaching staff it has today. They've always trailed Snider and will more than like will continue to do so. If they haven't done it by now, they probably wont outside of an occasional win here and there. I think Carroll has more potential than Homestead. Outside of some of the Indy burbs, their community is growing faster than any other in the state. And like I said in an earlier post, they have the coaching to get it done. 

[oldtimeqb]

16 hours ago, DT said:

The MIC and The HCC are clearly the top two football conferences in the state.

Ft Wayne's Summit Athletic Conference has generally been viewed as 3rd best,  but given recent success, the newly expanded SIAC may be making a move up the ladder.

Lots of similarities between the SIAC and the SAC.  Both now with 10 schools.  Both with a city core of 6 schools plus 2 PPs, and now both with two new schools from outlying areas

Honestly I don't know much about Ft. Wayne.  It's possible to get farther away from Evansville and remain in Indiana, but not by much.  That said, I don't think the SIAC is near the level of the SAC especially in terms of size.  The SIAC may have a 6A school (Castle and/or North) in the future, but it is predominantly a 4A conference with some P/P's added.  

In terms of P/P's, aren't there 3 in the SAC?  Bishop Dwenger, Bishop Luers, and Concordia Lutheran?  

[Guest DT]

27 minutes ago, BTF said:

I'm surprised you didn't mention the DAC in the first place. They would be my pick to challenge the SAC. And yes, Merrillville and Valpo would fit in nicely at the top of the SAC. I think what separates the SAC and DAC is depth. South Side is really the only bottom dweller. Wayne was near the top just a couple of years ago, as was Luers. They will both have a run on talent and climb back up again. 

 

Homestead would be my 3rd pick to challenge. If Garrett and Kolkman stay together, Dwenger may be the kingpin of the SAC. Homestead is the same community it was 16 years ago with the same coaching staff it has today. They've always trailed Snider and will more than like will continue to do so. If they haven't done it by now, they probably wont outside of an occasional win here and there. I think Carroll has more potential than Homestead. Outside of some of the Indy burbs, their community is growing faster than any other in the state. And like I said in an earlier post, they have the coaching to get it done. 

I defer to your local judgements on Homestead and Carroll.  I would think at some point, their size would overwhelm Snider.  Its very difficult to maintain a dynasty.  Hobart and Penn have been down that road.  Snider continues to be a force but they do not appear to be the immovable object they used to be.

With regards to The DAC, we saw improvement this year.  But while MV and VA had great seasons, Laporte and MC slipped back.  CP and CHE continue to lurk.  LC and Portage continue to woefully underperform.  Not sure where things are headed in the future.  And not sure how committed some schools are to football, particularly the bottom dwellers.

 

[BTF]

1 hour ago, DT said:

I defer to your local judgements on Homestead and Carroll.  I would think at some point, their size would overwhelm Snider.  Its very difficult to maintain a dynasty. 

The Homestead area is starting to see some growth again with the booming economy. The Carroll area is absolutely going crazy, so I see their enrollment continuing to grow. Snider's enrollment has been on the downturn for several years now. Many white collar families have moved out of the Snider district in favor of Carroll and Homestead. I believe you are correct with regard to the challenges Snider faces in the future. But with a solid core of coaches, they will remain a top force in the SAC in the near future. I see Homestead always being good like they have in the past with the occasional run on talent to topple Snider. I have great respect for the Homestead coaching staff, but I often wonder what they are NOT doing to get to Snider's level on a consistent basis. 

3 hours ago, DT said:

Snider continues to be a force but they do not appear to be the immovable object they used to be.

Valid. Less students and lowering socioeconomic status. 

[HoopsCoach]

This past season:

1. MIC

2. HCC

3. SAC

4. DAC

5. Mid-State

6. SIAC

[Robert]

16 hours ago, BTF said:

It's a good topic. I just think there is a gap between the SAC and the next best.

DT brought up some interesting points though. One being Snider's reign as the SAC's premier team. The main contender has actually been a contender for decades..............Dwenger. Jason Garrett is a great coach and has been stellar in his first two seasons. Of course having a guy like Casey Kolkman on his staff helps.  We will know over the next few years whether or not this conference belongs to the Panthers or Saints. Snider will always be near the top with Russ Bush (48 years with the program), Russ Isaacs (43), and Kurt Tippmann (28) leading the charge. 

There will be a lot of talk in 2020 about Carroll and Homestead. Carroll looks to have enough pieces of the puzzle coming back to dethrone Homestead and take the bell (victory bell that goes so conference champ). The Chargers also have a pretty good coach. Doug Dinan was an assistant under Russ Isaacs for 17 years at Snider. He knows what he's doing. Homestead returns QB Luke Goode. That in itself makes the Spartans a contender. 

Four great teams at the top. Then you have Concordia, Luers, and maybe Northrop (still waiting for them to breakout) on the outside looking in. Should be a fun 2020. 

Dwenger has several head coaches on staff. That helps a lot.  When Luers had that, they won several state championships.  

[BTF]

1 hour ago, Robert said:

Dwenger has several head coaches on staff. That helps a lot.  When Luers had that, they won several state championships.  

I really wasn't familiar with the coaching nucleus at Luers outside Matt Lindsay. I know there were men on that staff who took football pretty seriously.

[BTF]

22 hours ago, DT said:

With regards to The DAC, we saw improvement this year.  But while MV and VA had great seasons, Laporte and MC slipped back.  CP and CHE continue to lurk.  LC and Portage continue to woefully underperform.  Not sure where things are headed in the future.  And not sure how committed some schools are to football, particularly the bottom dwellers.

 

The way I see it, there has never been a talent problem in the region. I always viewed the problem being coaching. I'm not saying the Region hasn't had any great coaches, but by and large, they are being outperformed by their counterparts in other areas of the state. Is that a fair assessment? 

[Robert]

6 minutes ago, BTF said:

I really wasn't familiar with the coaching nucleus at Luers outside Matt Lindsay. I know there were men on that staff who took football pretty seriously.

I think Dwenger will only get better.  Right off the top of my head, they have Garrett, Watts, and Kolkman, who have all been head coaches.  They are only going to get better.  

[Gipper]

I don't really know where this upper hand argument comes into play.  Both are great leagues with great teams, passionate fans, etc.  Just part of what makes Indiana HS football great!

[Gipper]

13 minutes ago, BTF said:

The way I see it, there has never been a talent problem in the region. I always viewed the problem being coaching. I'm not saying the Region hasn't had any great coaches, but by and large, they are being outperformed by their counterparts in other areas of the state. Is that a fair assessment? 

The talent is there, as well as the numbers.    I just am unsure and their typical brand of smash mouth football can compete with the schools downstate.