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SIAC vs The SAC - Who now has the upper hand?


Guest DT

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6 hours ago, DT said:

After reading and contributing to this forum for 15 years, its become clear to me that the SW Indiana football people have a big chip on their shoulder.  They don't like being excluded from the big picture statewide narrative, so they set their own rules.  They have their own rankings, their own separate discussions, and focus on their own geography more than any other area of the state, including Ft Wayne.  I like their approach.  That chip is a healthy one.  It will continue to drive the SIAC up the competitive ladder.  

If you define a "chip" as feeling ignored and disrespected by the rest of the state, then I would say, Yes we have a chip.  It even extends to the fact we bristle when someone refers to Bloomington as southern Indiana.  I remember being extremely annoyed when Rex Grossman was referred to as hailing from southern Indiana by national media when he was a UF and with the Bears.  I will point out two possible overlooked reasons why I think the chip exists and how it pertains to football.

1. It is probably an overlooked fact, but the lack of direct route to Indianapolis caused a lot of the disconnect.  I remember in HS a classmate doing a persuasive speech on why an Indy-Evansville interstate should exist (recently built as I-69).  He threw up a slide of a wagon wheel missing a spoke, and then superimposed the state of Indiana over the top. I-70 E-W, I-65 NW to SE, I-74 in between those two, and I-69 from Indy and NE.  It really stood out as Evansville was largely ignored.  At least 2-3 generations heard that the IndyEvv highway was going to be built without it ever happening.  About 10 years ago, going to Indianapolis from Evansville seemed like travelling to a completely other state.  It was much easier to get from Evansville to St. Louis, Louisville, or Nashville than it was to our own state capitol.  It just added to the disconnect between areas.  It's hard to explain exactly how big of a deal the completion of the interstate was to this part of the state. 

2. Something I think has impacted SW Indiana football that is often overlooked is that the University of Evansville discontinued its football program in the late 90's.  There are currently 3 colleges south of I-70 that play football: Hanover, IU, and Franklin.  I think it has been an out of sight/out of mind sort of impact on the SW Indiana region.  Marian played for a national championship last week, and St. Francis in the last few years before that.  Both really went unnoticed down here.  HS football players don't really grow up thinking about playing at the collegiate level.  Your upper echelon players will still go play, but that next step down (D2, D3, NAIA level) is not as deep in numbers.  And the NFL is almost non-existent.  Ben Braunecker (Forest Park) is currently playing for the Bears.  Before him - Cutler??? I think was the last NFL player from SW Indiana.  And he was a 2001? HS graduate.  There haven't been Jaylon Smiths, Tyler Eifert, or Rod Smiths come out of Evansville area lately.  My argument would be that there could have been - if the goal of playing college football had been in the forefront.  

To answer your original question. Adding a tradition-rich program like Jasper is a big boost to the conference as a whole.  VL is another school with successful teams over its history that adds long-term scheduling stability.  I don't think they raise the profile of the conference to number 3 conference status any time soon, but it is definitely on the rise.          

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52 minutes ago, oldtimeqb said:

If you define a "chip" as feeling ignored and disrespected by the rest of the state, then I would say, Yes we have a chip.  It even extends to the fact we bristle when someone refers to Bloomington as southern Indiana.  I remember being extremely annoyed when Rex Grossman was referred to as hailing from southern Indiana by national media when he was a UF and with the Bears.  I will point out two possible overlooked reasons why I think the chip exists and how it pertains to football.

1. It is probably an overlooked fact, but the lack of direct route to Indianapolis caused a lot of the disconnect.  I remember in HS a classmate doing a persuasive speech on why an Indy-Evansville interstate should exist (recently built as I-69).  He threw up a slide of a wagon wheel missing a spoke, and then superimposed the state of Indiana over the top. I-70 E-W, I-65 NW to SE, I-74 in between those two, and I-69 from Indy and NE.  It really stood out as Evansville was largely ignored.  At least 2-3 generations heard that the IndyEvv highway was going to be built without it ever happening.  About 10 years ago, going to Indianapolis from Evansville seemed like travelling to a completely other state.  It was much easier to get from Evansville to St. Louis, Louisville, or Nashville than it was to our own state capitol.  It just added to the disconnect between areas.  It's hard to explain exactly how big of a deal the completion of the interstate was to this part of the state. 

2. Something I think has impacted SW Indiana football that is often overlooked is that the University of Evansville discontinued its football program in the late 90's.  There are currently 3 colleges south of I-70 that play football: Hanover, IU, and Franklin.  I think it has been an out of sight/out of mind sort of impact on the SW Indiana region.  Marian played for a national championship last week, and St. Francis in the last few years before that.  Both really went unnoticed down here.  HS football players don't really grow up thinking about playing at the collegiate level.  Your upper echelon players will still go play, but that next step down (D2, D3, NAIA level) is not as deep in numbers.  And the NFL is almost non-existent.  Ben Braunecker (Forest Park) is currently playing for the Bears.  Before him - Cutler??? I think was the last NFL player from SW Indiana.  And he was a 2001? HS graduate.  There haven't been Jaylon Smiths, Tyler Eifert, or Rod Smiths come out of Evansville area lately.  My argument would be that there could have been - if the goal of playing college football had been in the forefront.  

To answer your original question. Adding a tradition-rich program like Jasper is a big boost to the conference as a whole.  VL is another school with successful teams over its history that adds long-term scheduling stability.  I don't think they raise the profile of the conference to number 3 conference status any time soon, but it is definitely on the rise.          

Great post. I understand access from Indy to Chicago, St. Louis, Louisville, Cincinnati, Columbus, and Fort Wayne. But why Champaign? Access to Evansville should have been given priority over Champaign. And certainly Ft. Wayne to Chicago makes more sense than Indy to Champaign. 

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On 12/26/2019 at 10:33 AM, Temptation said:

You had me sold until this line.  While the comparison to Nebraska may be apt, it certainly doesn’t strengthen your case as they’ve done nothing of significance since joining the Big Ten.

Which begs two additional questions I’d like the boards feedback on...

1.  What does a school/program need to do to achieve “blue blood status?”

2.  Is that status a lifetime award or can it be revoked?

Nebraska used to be a blue blood in my opinion but they now have over a decades worth of consecutive four or more loss seasons...

Admittedly I am not an expert on Southwestern Indiana football, but looking at Jasper’s resume I’m not sure they ever qualified based on my rubric...

 

Jasper = Penn State

Does that work better for you?

http://indianahsfootball.homestead.com/files/alltimecoachwl.htm#loaded   Jerry Brewer is #2 on the Indiana all time coaching wins list, all at Jasper.  They are indeed a blueblood my friend.  

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1 hour ago, DT said:

Jasper = Penn State

Does that work better for you?

http://indianahsfootball.homestead.com/files/alltimecoachwl.htm#loaded   Jerry Brewer is #2 on the Indiana all time coaching wins list, all at Jasper.  They are indeed a blueblood my friend.  

We can agree to disagree I guess.  I don’t think the title blue blood is eternal and a lifetime pass.  (Probably why I don’t get along with IU basketball fans because they are no longer a blue blood either.)  I don’t see enough from Jasper in the last two decades to give them the title.

Nebraska fits better than Penn State after all...the Lions have won consistently.

 

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1 minute ago, Temptation said:

We can agree to disagree I guess.  I don’t think the title blue blood is eternal and a lifetime pass.  (Probably why I don’t get along with IU basketball fans because they are no longer a blue blood either.)  I don’t see enough from Jasper in the last two decades to give them the title.

Nebraska fits better than Penn State after all...the Lions have won consistently.

 

Bottom line, I love the expansion to 10 teams.  I would like to see the MIC and The HCC follow suit.  

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3 hours ago, Temptation said:

We can agree to disagree I guess.  I don’t think the title blue blood is eternal and a lifetime pass.  (Probably why I don’t get along with IU basketball fans because they are no longer a blue blood either.)  I don’t see enough from Jasper in the last two decades to give them the title.

Nebraska fits better than Penn State after all...the Lions have won consistently.

 

They have 2 Sectional Championships, 2 Regional Championships, and 1 State Championship over the last two decades. Those aren't staggering numbers by any means, but they do have one heck of a winning percentage over the same time period. I think that's enough to qualify them as a Blue Blood considering their past. 

 

3 hours ago, DT said:

Bottom line, I love the expansion to 10 teams.  I would like to see the MIC and The HCC follow suit.  

You like the idea of an "island" conference? It certainly makes scheduling easier, but then it puts those conferences in a bubble like the SAC. Which is fine I guess if you are satisfied with the competition. 

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14 minutes ago, BTF said:

They have 2 Sectional Championships, 2 Regional Championships, and 1 State Championship over the last two decades. Those aren't staggering numbers by any means, but they do have one heck of a winning percentage over the same time period. I think that's enough to qualify them as a Blue Blood considering their past.

Not to mention being in pretty sectional with some pretty tough Reitz and most recently Central teams. I think Tony Ahrens was a really good coach, but I really like the hiring of Tony Lewis. I think Jasper makes some noise in the SIAC in the near future. 

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34 minutes ago, BTF said:

They have 2 Sectional Championships, 2 Regional Championships, and 1 State Championship over the last two decades. Those aren't staggering numbers by any means, but they do have one heck of a winning percentage over the same time period. I think that's enough to qualify them as a Blue Blood considering their past. 

 

You like the idea of an "island" conference? It certainly makes scheduling easier, but then it puts those conferences in a bubble like the SAC. Which is fine I guess if you are satisfied with the competition. 

We will see what the SIAC holds as the Big 8 was akin to Penn beating up on smaller schools (on a smaller scale) in the NIC for years.

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29 minutes ago, Temptation said:

We will see what the SIAC holds as the Big 8 was akin to Penn beating up on smaller schools (on a smaller scale) in the NIC for years.

Penn had options.  They could have worked out a deal with The DAC.  Jasper was locked into playing smaller schools during the regular season.  It certainly helps to explain their extraordinary record over the years.

Jasper - Reitz will be the Homestead - Snider of the SIAC.  Should be some great football down there in the years ahead.

 

 

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1 hour ago, BTF said:

They have 2 Sectional Championships, 2 Regional Championships, and 1 State Championship over the last two decades. Those aren't staggering numbers by any means, but they do have one heck of a winning percentage over the same time period. I think that's enough to qualify them as a Blue Blood considering their past. 

 

You like the idea of an "island" conference? It certainly makes scheduling easier, but then it puts those conferences in a bubble like the SAC. Which is fine I guess if you are satisfied with the competition. 

Jasper over the last two decades has 5 sectional championships not 2. 2001, 2002, 2005, 2008, and 2013. And 3 instead of 2 regional championships in 2001, 2002, and 2005. One semistate and state championship in 2001.

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9 hours ago, sr1 said:

Jasper over the last two decades has 5 sectional championships not 2. 2001, 2002, 2005, 2008, and 2013. And 3 instead of 2 regional championships in 2001, 2002, and 2005. One semistate and state championship in 2001.

Yes....5,3,1, & 1......Thanks for the corrections.

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