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mercey rule 1 year in


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1 hour ago, FinePrint said:

So in a mercy rule running clock scenario, the clock is supposed to stop for a delay of game penalty?

 

1 hour ago, Impartial_Observer said:

 

Doesn't the running clock supersede the rule?

 

I assumed by running clock he meant the clock was running when the DOG happened, not a mercy rule situation. In a mercy rule situation the clock wouldn't stop when the foul happened.

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16 minutes ago, JustRules said:

 

I assumed by running clock he meant the clock was running when the DOG happened, not a mercy rule situation. In a mercy rule situation the clock wouldn't stop when the foul happened.

Ok.  Right.  So let's throw out a scenario...

Team A is in a rivalry game with Team B.  Team B's all-state quarterback must sit out the first half for disciplinary reasons.  As a result, Team A racks up a 35-0 lead at the half and a running clock is mandated for the second half.  Team B receives the second half kickoff, runs their no huddle offense and scores in 2 minutes.  Team A receives the ensuing kickoff and decides not to run a play, but take consecutive delay of game penalties until the entire third quarter ends.  They run one play to begin the fourth quarter and then continue to take penalties without running a play until the game ends.  Team B never gets the ball back again and their star player cannot help them mount a comeback.

Could this happen under the current rule?

Edited by FinePrint
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3 hours ago, FinePrint said:

So in a mercy rule running clock scenario, the clock is supposed to stop for a delay of game penalty?

Nope. The Mercy Rule supplants normal timing rules.

1 hour ago, JustRules said:

 

I assumed by running clock he meant the clock was running when the DOG happened, not a mercy rule situation. In a mercy rule situation the clock wouldn't stop when the foul happened.

Exactly.

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6 hours ago, FinePrint said:

Ok.  Right.  So let's throw out a scenario...

Team A is in a rivalry game with Team B.  Team B's all-state quarterback must sit out the first half for disciplinary reasons.  As a result, Team A racks up a 35-0 lead at the half and a running clock is mandated for the second half.  Team B receives the second half kickoff, runs their no huddle offense and scores in 2 minutes.  Team A receives the ensuing kickoff and decides not to run a play, but take consecutive delay of game penalties until the entire third quarter ends.  They run one play to begin the fourth quarter and then continue to take penalties without running a play until the game ends.  Team B never gets the ball back again and their star player cannot help them mount a comeback.

Could this happen under the current rule?

Common sense would not allow that to happen in a mercy rule situation. How to handle it would be at the referee's discretion. If it was me after the second DOG I would actually stop the clock and tell the head coach he does it again intentionally he will be flagged for unsportsmanlike conduct. This would be done using what we often call the "God" rule. It's to be applied very sparingly (I've never done it that I recall), but it's there to allow the referee to rule on things not specifically covered in the rules. There's a very good chance Robert Faulkens is going to get a phone call too if he does it again. I'm guessing he'll get the message and not do it again.

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24 minutes ago, CaptainHook said:

I wondered about the clock running through penalties and using that as an advantage as well . . . 

Just another reason why "The Mercy Rule" is no good.  Thinking of all of these silly scenarios makes a mockery of the game. 

Teams and players are only guaranteed 10 games a year.  That's fewer games then basketball plays.  Fewer games then soccer plays.  Fewer games then volleyball plays. Fewer games then literally every other team sport plays.

And we think its a good thing for players to get less opportunity to play?  For what end?  So that referees and former band teacher administrators can get home earlier on Friday night?  I was at a game last season where the running clock was enacted and a team ran 1 offensive play in the 4th quarter.  Which means that the varsity team played 75% of a game and the backups/JV/freshmen got zero playing time.   In a day and age when more and more schools don't even field a JV team let alone a true freshmen team.  In a day-and-age when football participation is already down.  Good luck getting sophomores and freshmen to come out to play football when the entirety of their football experience is getting the feces kicked out of them in practice each week.

Again the whole "mercy rule" thing was a complete overreaction by old people, many of whom don't understand athletics who think they know better then high school coaches on how to manage a game and how to run their teams.  Because we all know it really matters to most 17 year olds that they only got beat 42-0 instead of 56-0.  I'm sure because of our mercy rule, we helped those poor kids sleep better knowing they only lost by 42. 

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20 minutes ago, PhilLee said:

Just another reason why "The Mercy Rule" is no good.  Thinking of all of these silly scenarios makes a mockery of the game. 

Teams and players are only guaranteed 10 games a year.  That's fewer games then basketball plays.  Fewer games then soccer plays.  Fewer games then volleyball plays. Fewer games then literally every other team sport plays.

And we think its a good thing for players to get less opportunity to play?  For what end?  So that referees and former band teacher administrators can get home earlier on Friday night?  I was at a game last season where the running clock was enacted and a team ran 1 offensive play in the 4th quarter.  Which means that the varsity team played 75% of a game and the backups/JV/freshmen got zero playing time.   In a day and age when more and more schools don't even field a JV team let alone a true freshmen team.  In a day-and-age when football participation is already down.  Good luck getting sophomores and freshmen to come out to play football when the entirety of their football experience is getting the feces kicked out of them in practice each week.

Again the whole "mercy rule" thing was a complete overreaction by old people, many of whom don't understand athletics who think they know better then high school coaches on how to manage a game and how to run their teams.  Because we all know it really matters to most 17 year olds that they only got beat 42-0 instead of 56-0.  I'm sure because of our mercy rule, we helped those poor kids sleep better knowing they only lost by 42. 

You realize almost every other state has had a mercy rule for a long time? We were one of the last ones. Those states seem to be doing just fine. Having worked many of those huge blowouts there wasn't much accomplished during the second half of those games. The mercy rule at least gives the players an opportunity to get some snaps in. By my experience this year it was 2-3 drives per team. The coaches didn't mind and the players still seemed to have fun regardless of what side they were on. It maybe gets me home 15-20 minutes earlier so not a major difference. This was 100% coach driven by the IFCA. If you have a beef you have it with them.

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6 hours ago, PhilLee said:

And we think its a good thing for players to get less opportunity to play?  For what end?  So that referees and former band teacher administrators can get home earlier on Friday night? 

You have a legitimate point of view which, unfortunately, suffers when you go about it like an a$$hat.

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17 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

 

So Basketball still gets a Pass?    even Baseball/softball has a run rule     

 

This right here is definitely it... Baseball/softball run rules are fantastic and have been for years. Mostly everyone enjoys the football mercy rule and has definitely done its job in its first year... But how hard is it to implement a basketball running clock? Once it hits 25 points in the 2nd half, let's get it rolling. Basketball shouldn't be exempted from a mercy rule whatsoever. 

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Heck man:   I would even say 3-40 points:   In some of those games I posted on both Girls and Boys end of it, you cannot tell me that the score at halftime wasn't over 30 points.     

Can't imagine how many fouls and stoppages there were in 4th quarter when JV kids are even in.   

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7 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

Heck man:   I would even say 3-40 points:   In some of those games I posted on both Girls and Boys end of it, you cannot tell me that the score at halftime wasn't over 30 points.     

Can't imagine how many fouls and stoppages there were in 4th quarter when JV kids are even in.   

I was at a local JV and Varsity game last night.  Oh.  My.  Goodness.  It was BRUTAL.  The amount of fouls and stoppages because of loose balls going OOB.

The home team was up by over 20 at many times.  The visitors stormed back in Q3.  The home team still ended up winning by a very hefty margin.

Add insult to injury....the JV comes in w/ about 1-2 minutes left in game and BAM, a JV kid for the home team gets blasted in the face w/ the ball.  Bloody nose.  You could tell the refs were trying to expedite the matter...they knew how DRAWN out this game was.  They immediately called for a sub and to clean up the floor.  It was quite comical.

I was never so happy to walk into 30 degree freezing air in all my life.

 

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1 hour ago, Coach Nowlin said:

Heck man:   I would even say 3-40 points:   In some of those games I posted on both Girls and Boys end of it, you cannot tell me that the score at halftime wasn't over 30 points.     

Can't imagine how many fouls and stoppages there were in 4th quarter when JV kids are even in.   

Does basketball need some sort of mercy rule?  You're darn right.

Here's my favorite box score of the basketball season: Heritage Hills 101, Mt. Vernon (Posey) 17

https://www.maxpreps.com/games/12-21-2019/basketball-winter-19-20/heritage-hills-vs-mt-vernon.htm?c=NKkw8Vd-GkSiGNxNI5ZeQw#tab=recap&schoolid=

I hope fans loved watching HH score 51 points in the second half, including a 17-0 fourth quarter. Does DT keep a run up the score list for basketball?

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3 hours ago, oldtimeqb said:

Does basketball need some sort of mercy rule?  You're darn right.

Here's my favorite box score of the basketball season: Heritage Hills 101, Mt. Vernon (Posey) 17

https://www.maxpreps.com/games/12-21-2019/basketball-winter-19-20/heritage-hills-vs-mt-vernon.htm?c=NKkw8Vd-GkSiGNxNI5ZeQw#tab=recap&schoolid=

I hope fans loved watching HH score 51 points in the second half, including a 17-0 fourth quarter. Does DT keep a run up the score list for basketball?

You spelled Muda wrong.  LOL

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23 hours ago, Bobref said:

You have a legitimate point of view which, unfortunately, suffers when you go about it like an a$$hat.

Seems a bit of an overreaction.  There are many “asshat” comments here (and I pride myself on making as many of them as possible) but “Phil Lee”,  if he is who I think he is, is from the days before the last GID inter-web crash (pretty sure he is), I consider him probably the most knowledgeable observer on the GID.  

Albeit a very blunt one....which means his humor is oft-missed.

Not that it matters, but I don’t necessarily agree with him all the time despite having huge respect for his opinion.

 

 

Edited by Lysander
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On 1/7/2020 at 12:11 PM, FinePrint said:

Ok.  Right.  So let's throw out a scenario...

Team A is in a rivalry game with Team B.  Team B's all-state quarterback must sit out the first half for disciplinary reasons.  As a result, Team A racks up a 35-0 lead at the half and a running clock is mandated for the second half.  Team B receives the second half kickoff, runs their no huddle offense and scores in 2 minutes.  Team A receives the ensuing kickoff and decides not to run a play, but take consecutive delay of game penalties until the entire third quarter ends.  They run one play to begin the fourth quarter and then continue to take penalties without running a play until the game ends.  Team B never gets the ball back again and their star player cannot help them mount a comeback.

Could this happen under the current rule?

Is B's All-State QB also an All-State DE......LB.......S....CB....

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My friend is a basketball referee who is working his way up the ladder. Currently, he does alot of girls games along with some boys JV/Frosh, etc.

Last month, he told me about a varsity 1A girls game that he worked. 

44-7 at the half. You might think that the winning coach would use the 2nd half to get some varsity experience for his younger players? Nope.

Even though they had 12 players dressed, the winning team went with a 7-player rotation until only 3:30 remained in the game-- then he put 3 of the bench players in to finish. 2 of his own players didn't play at all...in a 89-23 game.

So in many cases, sportsmanship is totally up to the coaches in basketball. Some are good at it, some are not.

 

 

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1 hour ago, slice60 said:

My friend is a basketball referee who is working his way up the ladder. Currently, he does alot of girls games along with some boys JV/Frosh, etc.

Last month, he told me about a varsity 1A girls game that he worked. 

44-7 at the half. You might think that the winning coach would use the 2nd half to get some varsity experience for his younger players? Nope.

Even though they had 12 players dressed, the winning team went with a 7-player rotation until only 3:30 remained in the game-- then he put 3 of the bench players in to finish. 2 of his own players didn't play at all...in a 89-23 game.

So in many cases, sportsmanship is totally up to the coaches in basketball. Some are good at it, some are not.

 

 

 

SHHHHHHHh     Football is the only guilty one in our State.   

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