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Allen is killing Indiana small college football


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16 hours ago, southend said:

You may have something Here, Allen might be the catalyst in changing the Big Ten culture.  

It won't be long and Allen will be the dean of Big Ten coaches ;

OSU - Day- NFL in 2 years

Mich - Harbaugh - Indefinite

MSU - Dantonio - Now Open

PSU - Franklin - always looking

Iowa - Ferment - Retirement soon

Wisc - Christ - Forever

NW -  Fitz   - Chicago Bears

Minn - Fleck - P5 school

Rutgers - Schiano - Will stay and build

Illinois - Lovie - retire

Purdue - Brohm - nfl

NE - Frost - stay long term

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17 hours ago, southend said:

You may have something Here, Allen might be the catalyst in changing the Big Ten culture.  

Maybe you misread my question, so I will restate it.  Is Mr. Allen just the following the lead regarding Preferred Walk On players as "tacking dummies" that has already been set for decades by traditional Big Ten powerhouse programs like Ohio State, Michigan,  Penn State, and Wisconsin?

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8 minutes ago, southend said:

I understand , yes, and I was being facetious, but sure ,the big state schools have all the drawing power ,within each respective state, to do exactly as you phrased it. 

Totally agree! Plus some of thes kids still have a pipe dream of starting at the D1 with a slight chance of moving on. My son is still weighing options but actually wants to play. He had moved his recruiting to more of the fcs,d2 and naia. If he is good enough to move on they will see him. If not he will move on with his education and career. Hope all the kids nothing but the best!

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In my opinion, the number of in-state PWO's you have in your program signifies the health of the program.  If Purdue/IU has just a couple, it means that they have been losing so badly the last few years that high school kids - even though they were raised Purdue/IU fans - will go elsewhere and play versus walk-on for their favorite college.  If the program is poor, its not worth the sacrifice of your body and your grades to play as a walk-on, and most would rather just enjoy being a student at that same university.

If the program is strong, and has been winning, kids will take the PWO, and that will increase the health of the program in 3 distinct ways.  (1) In-state PWO's bring the knowledge of the history, traditions, rivalries, and pride for a university that you don't have when a kid from Florida steps on campus at Purdue/IU.   (2)  In-state PWO's help the out-of-state kids transition into the new environment including the climate, community, and whereabouts.  They can bring a home away from home feel that is needed.  (3) In-state PWO's put butts in the seats and get people to follow the team... plain and simple.  It's easier for an in-state PWO's friends and extended family to get to a game at Purdue or IU than it is for a player's from Florida.  

I have 2 good examples of this... the Iowa Linebacker room during springball of 2018.  They had 19 LB's on the roster... 6 of which were scholarship.  The health of Iowa's program is strong with consistent winning seasons, and thus 13 in-state PWO LB's were giving it their all in attempts of making the team and earning a spot.  It only takes 1 to earn specials team playing time and more will get in line in the future for their chance at success.

The other example is Wisconsin OL during springball 2018.  They had enough in-state POW's to line up 4 deep OT to OT.  And they were all BIG.  Health of the program very good.  And yes, many of those PWO's could have played at another smaller in-state college.

So the fact Purdue and IU are getting really good in-state high school football players to accept PWO's is a very good sign for those B1G programs, and you will several of those kids contribute in some manner if they stick it out for several years.

Michigan has a sign in their locker room that reads "Those who stay will be Champions", and its not about the fact that they have never played in the B1G Championship game.  I think the same can be said for in-state PWO's for Purdue and IU now given those teams have moved up from the bottom of the B1G and are playing competitive football weekly now.

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10 hours ago, Coach-Ref_Kiser said:

In my opinion, the number of in-state PWO's you have in your program signifies the health of the program.  If Purdue/IU has just a couple, it means that they have been losing so badly the last few years that high school kids - even though they were raised Purdue/IU fans - will go elsewhere and play versus walk-on for their favorite college.  If the program is poor, its not worth the sacrifice of your body and your grades to play as a walk-on, and most would rather just enjoy being a student at that same university.

If the program is strong, and has been winning, kids will take the PWO, and that will increase the health of the program in 3 distinct ways.  (1) In-state PWO's bring the knowledge of the history, traditions, rivalries, and pride for a university that you don't have when a kid from Florida steps on campus at Purdue/IU.   (2)  In-state PWO's help the out-of-state kids transition into the new environment including the climate, community, and whereabouts.  They can bring a home away from home feel that is needed.  (3) In-state PWO's put butts in the seats and get people to follow the team... plain and simple.  It's easier for an in-state PWO's friends and extended family to get to a game at Purdue or IU than it is for a player's from Florida.  

I have 2 good examples of this... the Iowa Linebacker room during springball of 2018.  They had 19 LB's on the roster... 6 of which were scholarship.  The health of Iowa's program is strong with consistent winning seasons, and thus 13 in-state PWO LB's were giving it their all in attempts of making the team and earning a spot.  It only takes 1 to earn specials team playing time and more will get in line in the future for their chance at success.

The other example is Wisconsin OL during springball 2018.  They had enough in-state POW's to line up 4 deep OT to OT.  And they were all BIG.  Health of the program very good.  And yes, many of those PWO's could have played at another smaller in-state college.

So the fact Purdue and IU are getting really good in-state high school football players to accept PWO's is a very good sign for those B1G programs, and you will several of those kids contribute in some manner if they stick it out for several years.

Michigan has a sign in their locker room that reads "Those who stay will be Champions", and its not about the fact that they have never played in the B1G Championship game.  I think the same can be said for in-state PWO's for Purdue and IU now given those teams have moved up from the bottom of the B1G and are playing competitive football weekly now.

I recently took a long look at the Wisconsin roster and was astonished at the sheer volume of players in the 6-5, 315 lb range.   Bet they have 20

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On ‎2‎/‎4‎/‎2020 at 8:58 AM, eschnur66 said:

Quite frankly, this entire conversation is ridiculous.  If you were a casual fan and ventured into this conversation, you might think that IU now has like 50 PWOs or something.  This is not an issue worth debating.  Until one of the coaches from Marian, St. Francis, UINDY, Franklin, Hanover, or anywhere else comes into my office crying the blues about not having players to offer, I will not buy it.  There are plenty of kids, and plenty of schools for them to attend to play.  END OF STORY!

Any issue or topic is worth debating simply because there are two side that oppose each other. What happens is there are people from each camp that believe that have the definitive answer to the original post.  When its all said and done the responsibility rests with the parents initially to help guide their student athlete in the best direction they can.  Large university head coaches will always do what the feel is best also , but those coaches must carry a portion of responsibility to be willing to tell those athletes that on the surface that seem less likely to be a contributor and  probably shouldn't join the team to look at other options.  Its great to have a solid scout team to go against and  I know there are kids who develop and become contributors from the walk-on ranks. With that said though, those of us who have played at the D1 level know there is always a sizable group of athletes who probably would have had a better chance to play at a smaller school and should not have chosen to part of a D1 roster just because they had the opportunity to be accepted.  Either way it is a topic that has debatable merit.  NEW CHAPTER!

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On 2/3/2020 at 8:39 AM, SBFootball1 said:

I too am disappointed and dumbfounded that a Big Ten coach would go out and try to get the best talent in the state on his roster.  🙄

First IU didnt recruit enough in state, now he is taking too many guys.  Can't have it both ways.  Some of these kids have D1/Big Ten dreams.

This post seems like it really garnered the most up tics.  So I will say that if the mighty alluring Big Ten coach thought the guy was the best talent ,then why not pony up the scholarship. Indiana has as many as Ohio State. It’s not so much IU didn’t recruit in state, no one ever said that, but their was mention that they couldn’t get the elite prospects. This PWO route doesn’t address Indiana’s real problem.

 

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, TrojanDad said:

Singling out Indiana for a pretty common practive in D1

You bet, I’m very concerned with The health of all of the state of Indiana football.. I could care less about what the other  states do, common practice doesn’t make it a healthy practice. 

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19 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

You have zero proof of any decay whatsoever of football below the D1 level based on PWO's being offered by IU.  ZERO.

But, if you want to be concerned about the health of Indiana college football....knock yourself out.  

BTW, you mentioned IU's scholarship amounts equaling Ohio State, and I merely indicated Ohio State also offers PWO's.  (as does pretty much every major D1 FBS program)

All FBS schools have same number of scholarships, 85.

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I know this will come as a complete land utter shock to you all, but I’m a Purdue fan.  I see nothing wrong with what Coach Allen is doing.  Classifying the walk-one as “preferred” does not increased the number of scholarships, but rather gives the walk-ons impetus to try harder.  Who knows?  Maybe they’ll see the field..

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19 hours ago, Gipper said:

I know this will come as a complete land utter shock to you all, but I’m a Purdue fan.  I see nothing wrong with what Coach Allen is doing.  Classifying the walk-one as “preferred” does not increased the number of scholarships, but rather gives the walk-ons impetus to try harder.  Who knows?  Maybe they’ll see the field..

I've always assumed "preferred" walkon meant the player was invited to walk on and would mostly likely be able to be a part of the team at least in practice. Someone else who just walks on may likely not be allowed to stay. I'm not sure how often that happens or what kind of restrictions the teams put on it. You can't allow just anyone to come to the field and ask for pads.

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On 2/17/2020 at 7:54 PM, TrojanDad said:

You have zero proof of any decay whatsoever of football below the D1 level based on PWO's being offered by IU.  ZERO.

I beg to differ, please explain to me how, for example, Spegal, would NOT, make Indiana State, Ball state or other college’s in the state, better.  
And if you want ,go ahead and “ knock yourself out”

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2 hours ago, southend said:

I beg to differ, please explain to me how, for example, Spegal, would NOT, make Indiana State, Ball state or other college’s in the state, better.  
And if you want ,go ahead and “ knock yourself out”

Here is why this is an argument that will never get out of the loop it is in.  Charlie Spegal chose to attend Indiana University as a preferred walk-on, and God bless him for making the decision which seems best for him.  Because of this, we will never know if he could have gone to Indiana State, Ball State (who never offered him by the way).  There have been many young men that were GREAT players in high school who went on to stand and watch most of their games in college for a number of different reasons. There is as much evidence that college football below the FBS level in Indiana is as strong as it has EVER been, as there is that it is eroding. 

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10 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

You avoided my question....what proof of decay in play do you have of Indiana football programs below the D1 level.  I see an improved D2 program at UIndy.....2 top NAIA programs at Marian and St. Francis....and a number of excellent D3 programs with recent histories of making the playoffs to include Franklin, Wabash, Rose Hulman, and Hanover.  Can you provide any specifics of decline in play as a result of walkons at IU, Purdue, ND, Ball State, ISU, etc.?

Those D3 programs have made the playoffs, but in general the HCAC conference champs are lower quality than the winners of the other D3 conferences. It's very rare for them to win a playoff game and most of the HCAC teams go 0-2 in non-conference play. It's still decent football, and I don't see a few extra PWOs will have much of an impact to that.

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21 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

No disagreement.  But as you know, that has been the case for years....not recently with Allen adding more PWO's at Indiana.  What we have seen with Hanover and Rose, is 2 teams that have improved significantly from their past play a few years ago.

Hanover got a crappy draw in the playoffs with Mt. Union.

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9 hours ago, TrojanDad said:

No disagreement.  But as you know, that has been the case for years....not recently with Allen adding more PWO's at Indiana.  What we have seen with Hanover and Rose, is 2 teams that have improved significantly from their past play a few years ago.

I completely agree (although Rose has been pretty competitive during that time). Coach Theo has done a great job recruiting a little better athlete, plus I think he has a very good coaching staff and his players play hard for him.

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On 2/3/2020 at 8:20 AM, southend said:

Preferred walk on roster for Indiana University is bulging at the seams with Indiana kids. Depleting the available instate athletes for smaller state colleges and universities. including ,but not Limited to.other In state D1schools. Most of these kids will never see the light of day in their career at IU. whether Allen thinks he’s being generous or what. This is not a good thing. 

There is not a list of Indiana preferred walkons posted anywhere.  And even if you could find a list of PWO’s, Which you can’t because it’s not complete, you would have to compare it with the size of other power five schools to give it any validity. 

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3 hours ago, OldschoolFB said:

There is not a list of Indiana preferred walkons posted anywhere.  And even if you could find a list of PWO’s, Which you can’t because it’s not complete, you would have to compare it with the size of other power five schools to give it any validity. 

Please, any time he entices these guys and doesn't offer regular scholarships the point is valid. Depriving the smaller schools of very talented players. 

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On 2/20/2020 at 8:42 PM, southend said:

Please, any time he entices these guys and doesn't offer regular scholarships the point is valid. Depriving the smaller schools of very talented players. 

Am I the only one who has heard that he is a multimillionaire, maybe only a rumor, and doesn't need a scholarship?

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