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southend

Allen is killing Indiana small college football

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Preferred walk on roster for Indiana University is bulging at the seams with Indiana kids. Depleting the available instate athletes for smaller state colleges and universities. including ,but not Limited to.other In state D1schools. Most of these kids will never see the light of day in their career at IU. whether Allen thinks he’s being generous or what. This is not a good thing. 

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17 minutes ago, southend said:

Preferred walk on roster for Indiana University is bulging at the seams with Indiana kids. Depleting the available instate athletes for smaller state colleges and universities. including ,but not Limited to.other In state D1schools. Most of these kids will never see the light of day in their career at IU. whether Allen thinks he’s being generous or what. This is not a good thing. 

I too am disappointed and dumbfounded that a Big Ten coach would go out and try to get the best talent in the state on his roster.  🙄

First IU didnt recruit enough in state, now he is taking too many guys.  Can't have it both ways.  Some of these kids have D1/Big Ten dreams and this may be the only route to pursue those dreams.  More power to them!

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at the end of the day, it is up to the individual student athlete and their family.   I will never criticize kids who make decisions on what they feel is their best opportunity for them.  

Look at Purdue this past year, had a walk on Center, QB and RB all start last game of the year.   

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This is the same model that Coach Frost is using at Nebraska and that Nebraska used in the 80s & 90s. The idea is to build a strong walk-on program, and get a few quality players out of it, but more importantly build excitement and a mindset in Indiana High School athletes that they WANT TO stay home and DREAM of playing for IU growing up. 

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52 minutes ago, CoachStewart said:

This is the same model that Coach Frost is using at Nebraska and that Nebraska used in the 80s & 90s. The idea is to build a strong walk-on program, and get a few quality players out of it, but more importantly build excitement and a mindset in Indiana High School athletes that they WANT TO stay home and DREAM of playing for IU growing up. 

And what do we tell Johnny Football in 5 years when he is $100K in debt and getting ready to start his fabulous career as a Gym Teacher for $35000 in Podunk, Indiana?

Oh wait, President Warren will likely forgive that debt as part of her income redistribution initiative

 

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6 minutes ago, DT said:

And what do we tell Johnny Football in 5 years when he is $100K in debt and getting ready to start his fabulous career as a Gym Teacher for $35000 in Podunk, Indiana?

 

 

Welcome to the IFCA, son!

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14 minutes ago, DT said:

And what do we tell Johnny Football in 5 years when he is $100K in debt and getting ready to start his fabulous career as a Gym Teacher for $35000 in Podunk, Indiana?

Oh wait, President Warren will likely forgive that debt as part of her income redistribution initiative

 

Congrats! You saved $250k by not playing at Wabash and getting an Education Degree that you will use to get a job as a Gym Teacher for $35k in Podunk, Indiana.

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1 hour ago, DT said:

And what do we tell Johnny Football in 5 years when he is $100K in debt and getting ready to start his fabulous career as a Gym Teacher for $35000 in Podunk, Indiana?

Oh wait, President Warren will likely forgive that debt as part of her income redistribution initiative

 

 

1 hour ago, Punttheball said:

Congrats! You saved $250k by not playing at Wabash and getting an Education Degree that you will use to get a job as a Gym Teacher for $35k in Podunk, Indiana.

Come on folks, we're PE teachers who teach in the gym, not about the gym!! haha

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7 hours ago, WolvesOnTheProwl said:

 

Come on folks, we're PE teachers who teach in the gym, not about the gym!! haha

In the words of legendary Jasper Football coach Jerry Brewer, “I teach PE. Gym is a building or a person.”

7A6C5DD8-A770-4105-9E18-3080659E3148.jpeg

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7 hours ago, WolvesOnTheProwl said:

 

Come on folks, we're PE teachers who teach in the gym, not about the gym!! haha

If you went to IUPUI's school of HPERD at that time (the oldest School for Physical Education in the country, by the way :) ) , it is "Physical Education"; not even PE, Phys. Ed., and ESPECIALLY not gym. 

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22 hours ago, southend said:

Preferred walk on roster for Indiana University is bulging at the seams with Indiana kids. Depleting the available instate athletes for smaller state colleges and universities. including ,but not Limited to.other In state D1schools. Most of these kids will never see the light of day in their career at IU. whether Allen thinks he’s being generous or what. This is not a good thing. 

 

17 hours ago, DT said:

And what do we tell Johnny Football in 5 years when he is $100K in debt and getting ready to start his fabulous career as a Gym Teacher for $35000 in Podunk, Indiana?

Oh wait, President Warren will likely forgive that debt as part of her income redistribution initiative

So... It wasn't that long ago a lot of people on this board will screaming about keeping talent in state and getting Indiana High School Talent to Purdue and IU... Now Allen is killing small college football?   

Could be $250K in debt if he wants to play D3 Football.  Johnny Football and his parents have to make the best decision for him.  If Johnny was to go to Marian, Depauw, Wabash, UIndy, St. Francis, Anderson, Hanover, Bluffton, etc. he is probably walking out of there with some debt (probably as much as his PWO from IU) because not every member of those schools gets Full Rides.   I will also add, the resources/opportunities the PWOs will get from IU will be greater than smaller Indiana College Football.

The biggest misconception I think is that if you get an offer its a full ride... Couldn't be more further from the truth.

Edited by 1st_and_10
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23 hours ago, southend said:

Preferred walk on roster for Indiana University is bulging at the seams with Indiana kids. Depleting the available instate athletes for smaller state colleges and universities. including ,but not Limited to.other In state D1schools. Most of these kids will never see the light of day in their career at IU. whether Allen thinks he’s being generous or what. This is not a good thing. 

Purdue also has a decent number of PWOs who show potential during this recruiting cycle. It seems to be a bit of a trend and it's very smart. It's a great way to shore up depth and gives some athletes an opportunity to earn a scholarship.

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I would venture to guess 1/3 or more of these walk ons would be getting everything paid for at other schools. Getting the best talent in the state has nothing to do with depleting the available talent for other non-major school in the state. 

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It might hurt some small schools as far as talent, but it will increase the opportunity for other kids to attend those small schools.  I like what Allen is doing because there are multiples guys at UIndy, Marian, and St. Francis (just to name a few) that I know could contribute at IU or Purdue

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1 minute ago, southend said:

I would venture to guess 1/3 or more of these walk ons would be getting everything paid for at other schools. Getting the best talent in the state has nothing to do with depleting the available talent for other non-major school in the state. 

I don't understand your argument  here:

School A - "we like you and want you to be a walk on"

School B - " we like you and want to offer you a full sholarship"

Student-Athlete - " i want to take my chances at school A"

The student saw what options they had and made a choice.  Until Saban turns a kid down in order to boost Chattahoochee Valley Community College's program, i think this is a non-issue.

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20 hours ago, DT said:

And what do we tell Johnny Football in 5 years when he is $100K in debt and getting ready to start his fabulous career as a Gym Teacher for $35000 in Podunk, Indiana?

Oh wait, President Warren will likely forgive that debt as part of her income redistribution initiative

 

Yes, yes, yes.  There are so many positives to being a walk on at a larger program compared to paying 30k+ at any smaller private. 

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1 hour ago, Reddevil07 said:

Johnny Football better take his tail to a Title 1 school and get his loans forgiven 😂

I lost my battle for that.   Wait to you hear this.....  Hit every box on the qualification application.   Was denied, why?  I had an outstanding Loan Debt Prior to October 1st, 1998.  I started Purdue August 24th 1998, so I argued with them and said, so you are telling me, because I started school about 40 days prior to some arbitrary date, October 1st, 1998, that disqualified me for my remaining loans to be forgiven.    Haven't tried since.   

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58 minutes ago, Knightmare said:

It might hurt some small schools as far as talent, but it will increase the opportunity for other kids to attend those small schools.  I like what Allen is doing because there are multiples guys at UIndy, Marian, and St. Francis (just to name a few) that I know could contribute at IU or Purdue

And the talent pool continues to diminsh

Iu allows lesser talented athletes to consume roster bandwidth

Indiana State , Butler, Depauw and others shop the high school clearance bin, taking kids who didn't even make All Conferen ce or All Area or All County

 

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Just now, DT said:

And the talent pool continues to diminsh

Iu allows lesser talented athletes to consume roster bandwidth

Indiana State , Butler, Depauw and others shop the high school clearance bin, taking kids who didn't even make All Conferen ce or All Area or All County

 

Quite frankly, this entire conversation is ridiculous.  If you were a casual fan and ventured into this conversation, you might think that IU now has like 50 PWOs or something.  This is not an issue worth debating.  Until one of the coaches from Marian, St. Francis, UINDY, Franklin, Hanover, or anywhere else comes into my office crying the blues about not having players to offer, I will not buy it.  There are plenty of kids, and plenty of schools for them to attend to play.  END OF STORY!

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36 minutes ago, DT said:

And the talent pool continues to diminsh

Iu allows lesser talented athletes to consume roster bandwidth

Indiana State , Butler, Depauw and others shop the high school clearance bin, taking kids who didn't even make All Conferen ce or All Area or All County

 

What about a kid who opts for a smaller school over a D1?

My daughter had multiple D1 offers and opted for Marian. In her words "dad I don't want this to be a job, I want to experience college as well." Smaller schools offer varying degrees of that. When she went on her visit, she said "it just felt like home." I told her all along forget sports, find a school you would just like to go to school at. We all knew there was no million dollar contract at the end of this rainbow, Softball was a means to an end. As I've stated many times, Marian University is the best college athletic program in the country you've never heard of.  

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2 hours ago, AG said:

Purdue also has a decent number of PWOs who show potential during this recruiting cycle. It seems to be a bit of a trend and it's very smart. It's a great way to shore up depth and gives some athletes an opportunity to earn a scholarship.

The PWO growth phenomenon is a collateral development of participatio decline and to a lesser degree program contraction

There is a significantly smaller sample size of players to choose from today as there was 10 to 20 years ago   Compounding year after year participation decline is making its way through each level of tackle football.   Bantam's and Pee wees were first to take a hit.  Then it was junior high and freshman.   Today it's high school varsity and small college football

Next in line will be big time college football and finally the NFL.  It's coming.  Can't be stopped.  

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19 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said:

What about a kid who opts for a smaller school over a D1?

My daughter had multiple D1 offers and opted for Marian. In her words "dad I don't want this to be a job, I want to experience college as well." Smaller schools offer varying degrees of that. When she went on her visit, she said "it just felt like home." I told her all along forget sports, find a school you would just like to go to school at. We all knew there was no million dollar contract at the end of this rainbow, Softball was a means to an end. As I've stated many times, Marian University is the best college athletic program in the country you've never heard of.  

Agree.   My niece is a freshman softball player at Marian.  She was CPHS female Athlete of the Year and won softball state as a soph 

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1 hour ago, eschnur66 said:

Quite frankly, this entire conversation is ridiculous.  If you were a casual fan and ventured into this conversation, you might think that IU now has like 50 PWOs or something.  This is not an issue worth debating.  Until one of the coaches from Marian, St. Francis, UINDY, Franklin, Hanover, or anywhere else comes into my office crying the blues about not having players to offer, I will not buy it.  There are plenty of kids, and plenty of schools for them to attend to play.  END OF STORY!

It's actually a great conversation.  I wanted to play D2 football after high school but my condescending arrogant head coach told me I was too slow.   Ultimately he was right.  I wound up at D3 SJC

It really bothers me when kids get bad advise.  Somebody tells them they are good enough to play Big Ten football, and they wind up riding the bench for 5 years and never getting a sniff of game action, when perhaps a fulfilling career at ISU or BSU or NIU would have been much more rewarding.  

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19 minutes ago, DT said:

 

....and they wind up riding the bench for 5 years and never getting a sniff of game action, when perhaps a fulfilling career at ISU or BSU or NIU would have been much more rewarding.  

Why couldnt it be just as rewarding for that guy who never sniffed action? Maybe they are at their dream school, suiting up for the team they have wanted to play for since they were little?  Every day they are out there practicing, weightlifting, attending meetings, etc....maybe the role on Saturday's isnt what they dreamed, but they are still there, living out the path that 18 year old them led them down.

The same could be said for the guy that chooses a smaller school and ends up starting for 4 years instead of taking the WO route. It is rewarding because it was his route and his choices.

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