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southend

Allen is killing Indiana small college football

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9 minutes ago, eschnur66 said:

This is just not the case.  They absolutely do change.

Once again, it is not Tom Allen's responsibility to monitor the success of Indiana small college football.  Furthermore, if IU continues to get better, one could argue that the popularity of football in this state would grow, and eventually attracting more players that could play small college football.  Therefore, in the future Tom Allen may in fact be having an extremely positive impact on small college football.

Absolutely.  I see nothing wrong with his tactic ("you're pretty good, but...").  DePauw will get their kids, Hanover will get their kids, Wabash will get their kids, even Notre Dame and Purdue will...

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48 minutes ago, southend said:

Those are your words, not mine. 

Then please explain your me, me, me era is here in context to the thread you started......I must have missed it.

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On 2/3/2020 at 9:38 AM, Coach Nowlin said:

at the end of the day, it is up to the individual student athlete and their family.   I will never criticize kids who make decisions on what they feel is their best opportunity for them.  

Look at Purdue this past year, had a walk on Center, QB and RB all start last game of the year.   

100%.  No one forced them to go to IU in this case or wherever they end up.  The decision is up to the student athlete to decide where they go play.  If a POW at IU is better for them than playing for a smaller state school then good for them. 

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1 hour ago, TrojanDad said:

Then please explain your me, me, me era is here in context to the thread you started......I must have missed it.

 

27 minutes ago, Goose10 said:

100%.  No one forced them to go to IU in this case or wherever they end up.  The decision is up to the student athlete to decide where they go play.  If a POW at IU is better for them than playing for a smaller state school then good for them. 

I have never once, in this thread abashed or chided students, or their decisions to select the college they wanted to attend. 

You all  jumped on that stage coach. And it left town. 

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1 hour ago, southend said:

 

I have never once, in this thread abashed or chided students, or their decisions to select the college they wanted to attend. 

You all  jumped on that stage coach. And it left town. 

Is your point not that a coach offering POW's is killing football at other levels in the state of Indiana because players go to IU and you did state that some of those guys "would never see the light of day" at IU?  In my previous statement I didn't accuse you of anything.  I just stated that a student athlete decides where they attend school and play ball.  And if they choose to go to IU and "not see the light of day" instead of going and getting on the field action at a DII, DIII, or NAIA school then good for them.

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10 minutes ago, Goose10 said:

Is your point not that a coach offering POW's is killing football at other levels in the state of Indiana because players go to IU and you did state that some of those guys "would never see the light of day" at IU?  In my previous statement I didn't accuse you of anything.  I just stated that a student athlete decides where they attend school and play ball.  And if they choose to go to IU and "not see the light of day" instead of going and getting on the field action at a DII, DIII, or NAIA school then good for them.

Football aside (GASP!!!!!), IU does have some pretty good academics....

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2 hours ago, southend said:

 

I have never once, in this thread abashed or chided students, or their decisions to select the college they wanted to attend. 

You all  jumped on that stage coach. And it left town. 

I'm still waiting for you to supply any legitimate data that shows IU or Purdue or anybody is taking more walk-ons now than in the past. The ultimate premise is that Coach Allen is being selfish and suddenly taking too many walk-ons. Is that premise even legitimate?!?! Where are your numbers? 

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Hypothetical:  Joe Stud is offered a PWO at Big State U.  He barely qualified with his GPA and his Test scores.  You, as the high school coach, know that it is going to be a real struggle for him academically and athletically.  How would you advise this young man with his future plans.

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56 minutes ago, LaSalle Lions 1976 said:

Hypothetical:  Joe Stud is offered a PWO at Big State U.  He barely qualified with his GPA and his Test scores.  You, as the high school coach, know that it is going to be a real struggle for him academically and athletically.  How would you advise this young man with his future plans.

I would ask the kid to contemplate what he really wants. Is he committed to doing the work it will take, if he is willing to buy in more power to him.  If he is lukewarm, he should discuss it over with his parents.

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6 hours ago, eschnur66 said:

This is just not the case.  They absolutely do change.

Once again, it is not Tom Allen's responsibility to monitor the success of Indiana small college football.  Furthermore, if IU continues to get better, one could argue that the popularity of football in this state would grow, and eventually attracting more players that could play small college football.  Therefore, in the future Tom Allen may in fact be having an extremely positive impact on small college football.

Doubtful.  We are on a one way street of declining participation.  This is not a trend.  It's a seismic shift.  What is happening with Indiana small college football will not reverse this on going shift.  

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7 hours ago, TrojanDad said:

Darn you Coach Allen for giving young men the chance to be a part of something bigger than themselves!!!!  (ultimate sarcasm)

Don't forget Coach Allen was a high school football coach and he worked to get kids playing at the next level....in all divisions.  I think he gets the bigger picture.

Great job Coach!!  

Believe it or not, Allen turned the Ben Davis job, once the preeminent high school football program in the Midwest, into a stepping stone

 

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On 2/3/2020 at 8:20 AM, southend said:

Preferred walk on roster for Indiana University is bulging at the seams with Indiana kids. Depleting the available instate athletes for smaller state colleges and universities. including ,but not Limited to.other In state D1schools. Most of these kids will never see the light of day in their career at IU. whether Allen thinks he’s being generous or what. This is not a good thing. 

So, the kids are then forced to go there when they get the PW??

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13 minutes ago, southend said:

No the kids are not forced to go anywhere. 

Thanks for confirming my point. 

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11 hours ago, southend said:

Pretty selfish, for the health of indiana smaller colleges. 
me ,me ,me-era is here. 

It's not selfish, it's smart. These are fringe D1 college players with potential. Spegal, for example, was a 2* recruit and already had a D1 offer from Army, where he probably could've been a star. It's not like his only other offers were from Marian and Wabash.

Schools like IU and Purdue are trying to compete with the likes of Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State. To do so, they have to be clever and use all of their resources.

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5 minutes ago, AG said:

Schools like IU and Purdue are trying to compete with the likes of Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State. To do so, they have to be clever and use all of their resou

Come on here? Indiana and Purdue ain’t ever in a hundred million years Going to get in the big three circle with these Indiana elite “marginal D1” athletes.  I know what your getting at ,but it takes years and years of landing 4and 5 star athletes. Starting with indiana high school kids. 

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2 minutes ago, southend said:

Come on here? Indiana and Purdue ain’t ever in a hundred million years Going to get in the big three circle with these Indiana elite “marginal D1” athletes.  I know what your getting at ,but it takes years and years of landing 4and 5 star athletes. Starting with indiana high school kids. 

And that's what they're mostly getting, local in-state kids to bolster their roster. The Thieneman brothers, Alfred Armour, Zander Horvath, Aiden O'Connell, and Sam Garvin were all walk-ons who have contributed in the past two years, with five of them, save for AOC, being in-state players. The older Thieneman is an NFL practice squad player. 

These players are the building blocks for the program to potentially and hopefully rise to elite status. 

BTW, Purdue's roster was in such a disgustingly sorry state that they had no choice but to dip in for some local walk-ons.

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11 minutes ago, AG said:

And that's what they're mostly getting, local in-state kids to bolster their roster. The Thieneman brothers, Alfred Armour, Zander Horvath, Aiden O'Connell, and Sam Garvin were all walk-ons who have contributed in the past two years, with five of them, save for AOC, being in-state players. The older Thieneman is an NFL practice squad player. 

These players are the building blocks for the program to potentially and hopefully rise to elite status. 

BTW, Purdue's roster was in such a disgustingly sorry state that they had no choice but to dip in for some local walk-ons.

And yes, it will take time for Purdue and IU to even occasionally win their divisions.

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50 minutes ago, southend said:

I guess your point was lost by me? 

The point is "when they are offered a PW they have a choice to go there or not" . So the kid can go there and try to get playing time at a P5 school, or go the other route; non P5, FCS, D2, D3 or NAIA. 

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3 minutes ago, psaboy said:

The point is "when they are offered a PW they have a choice to go there or not" . So the kid can go there and try to get playing time at a P5 school, or go the other route; non P5, FCS, D2, D3 or NAIA. 

Ok, agreed 

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On 2/5/2020 at 6:40 AM, 1st_and_10 said:

And let's face it... If you are paying to attend IU as a PWO you are probably paying less thatn going to one of the small private colleges to play football... And at the end of it all (if they stick it out) they can say they played B1G Football... Regardless if they ever see the field.  They will will have access to all kinds of resources that the average student at IU will not get... They get strength and conditioning training from one of the best (Dave Ballou).  They get tutoring and academic support.  And more importantly, they get to live out a dream that a bunch of us 40+ year olds all wish we had the opportunity.  If kids get the opportunity to play at the next level (whether thats a PWO, a partial scholly, etc) be happy for them.  The 8 kids that accepted PWOs this weekend will not make or break the small school Indiana College Football scene.  We all know there will be kids to leave and transfer because some kids struggle going from the Big fish in the small pond to small fish in the big pond.

D1 FBS Schools get 85 Scholarships for 85 players

D1 FCS get 63 Scholarships for up to 85 players (Butler & Valpo are in the Pioneer League and do not offer Football Scholarships)

D2 Football gets 36 scholarships for up to 85 players

D3 NO ATHLETIC SCHOLARSHIPS

NAIA gets 24 Scholarships

this is the best post in this thread

Turning down an FBS offer to walk on is probably not a great move.  But if money is not an issue (and with some families, sometimes that is the case!) it's not unheard of.

The thing most don't know is the scholarship offer percentage to each athlete.  It is likely to be very good at an FCS school.  Maybe even a full ride.  But it may only be 50%.  

Walking on at IU may actually be cheaper than playing d2, d3, or NAIA.

Making a blanket statement that it's a bad idea is just uneducated.  

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18 hours ago, southend said:

 

I have never once, in this thread abashed or chided students, or their decisions to select the college they wanted to attend. 

You all  jumped on that stage coach. And it left town. 

Ok...what was the me,me, me thing?  Coach Allen?  Trying to understand, that’s all. 

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Being a preferred walk on reminds me of what it must have been like for Benton Central players to go up against George Karlaftis.  

That is basically what a PWO is looking at   4 years as a tackling dummy for the scout team and a lifetime of orthopedic and arthritis pain

No thanks.  

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Has anyone actually asked a walk on? The son of my friend is a walk on for IU baseball. He loves it. The perks are awesome. He is fighting like heck to make the 35 man roster. His only conflict when deciding about school was: walk on baseball or walk on football at IU. There are many financial aid opportunities for those qualified.  BTW, Marian just signed two great high school players from Evansville Memorial.

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