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southend

Allen is killing Indiana small college football

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16 hours ago, DT said:

Doubtful.  We are on a one way street of declining participation.  This is not a trend.  It's a seismic shift.  What is happening with Indiana small college football will not reverse this on going shift.  

 

1 hour ago, DT said:

Being a preferred walk on reminds me of what it must have been like for Benton Central players to go up against George Karlaftis.  

That is basically what a PWO is looking at   4 years as a tackling dummy for the scout team and a lifetime of orthopedic and arthritis pain

No thanks.  

What is happening with Indiana small college football?  Do they have smaller rosters, or are they bringing in smaller classes?  I tend to believe that neither of those are true.  And if they were true, a handful of PWO players at schools like IU and Purdue would be WAY down the list of reasons why.

 

A great number of PWO players actually do contribute at P5 schools on a regular basis.  Not a theory, but absolute fact.

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2 hours ago, eschnur66 said:

 

What is happening with Indiana small college football?  Do they have smaller rosters, or are they bringing in smaller classes?  I tend to believe that neither of those are true.  And if they were true, a handful of PWO players at schools like IU and Purdue would be WAY down the list of reasons why.

 

A great number of PWO players actually do contribute at P5 schools on a regular basis.  Not a theory, but absolute fact.

Allen has stated his intent to build a sub roster of PWO tackling dummies.  He is just starting.  You will see the impact at the small school level 3 to 5 years down the line.  

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3 minutes ago, DT said:

Allen has stated his intent to build a sub roster of PWO tackling dummies.  He is just starting.  You will see the impact at the small school level 3 to 5 years down the line.  

 

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Just now, DT said:

Allen has stated his intent to build a sub roster of PWO tackling dummies.  He is just starting.  You will see the impact at the small school level 3 to 5 years down the line.  

I disagree, however only time will tell.  Allen never said anything about tackling dummies.  He is trying to build a program which has never experienced a five year period of sustained success. He is taking a grassroots approach and, even as a black and gold bleeding Purdue fan, I appreciate his efforts.  FCS, DII, NAIA, and DIII football in Indiana are fine and will remain so!  But I guess we will find out.

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This comes from a Coach 1st and parent 2nd. Let the kids decide their future with your help or guidance! Do not be that parent that decides your childs future.

My son for example wants to play college football. He has been offered a few pwo's and multiple small school opportunities d2,naia.

He told me his love of the game to potentially play 3-4 more years and going to a college with structure helped him make his decision. 

Most of these pwo's will never see the field. So what! If they have the pipe dream that they may play and or slight chance they may grow and may have a chance of playing at the pro level who cares.

Pro's have come from all levels!

I hope these kids have their best interests in their decision making! 

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11 hours ago, DT said:

Allen has stated his intent to build a sub roster of PWO tackling dummies.  He is just starting.  You will see the impact at the small school level 3 to 5 years down the line.  

No impact at smaller schools will be seen. Fake news !!

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20 hours ago, DT said:

Allen has stated his intent to build a sub roster of PWO tackling dummies.  

Is this the current model at traditional B10 powerhouse programs like Ohio State, Michigan,  Penn State, and Wisconsin?

 

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6 hours ago, Muda69 said:

Is this the current model at traditional B10 powerhouse programs like Ohio State, Michigan,  Penn State, and Wisconsin?

 

You may have something Here, Allen might be the catalyst in changing the Big Ten culture.  

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16 hours ago, southend said:

You may have something Here, Allen might be the catalyst in changing the Big Ten culture.  

It won't be long and Allen will be the dean of Big Ten coaches ;

OSU - Day- NFL in 2 years

Mich - Harbaugh - Indefinite

MSU - Dantonio - Now Open

PSU - Franklin - always looking

Iowa - Ferment - Retirement soon

Wisc - Christ - Forever

NW -  Fitz   - Chicago Bears

Minn - Fleck - P5 school

Rutgers - Schiano - Will stay and build

Illinois - Lovie - retire

Purdue - Brohm - nfl

NE - Frost - stay long term

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17 hours ago, southend said:

You may have something Here, Allen might be the catalyst in changing the Big Ten culture.  

Maybe you misread my question, so I will restate it.  Is Mr. Allen just the following the lead regarding Preferred Walk On players as "tacking dummies" that has already been set for decades by traditional Big Ten powerhouse programs like Ohio State, Michigan,  Penn State, and Wisconsin?

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I understand , yes, and I was being facetious, but sure ,the big state schools have all the drawing power ,within each respective state, to do exactly as you phrased it. 

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8 minutes ago, southend said:

I understand , yes, and I was being facetious, but sure ,the big state schools have all the drawing power ,within each respective state, to do exactly as you phrased it. 

Totally agree! Plus some of thes kids still have a pipe dream of starting at the D1 with a slight chance of moving on. My son is still weighing options but actually wants to play. He had moved his recruiting to more of the fcs,d2 and naia. If he is good enough to move on they will see him. If not he will move on with his education and career. Hope all the kids nothing but the best!

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In my opinion, the number of in-state PWO's you have in your program signifies the health of the program.  If Purdue/IU has just a couple, it means that they have been losing so badly the last few years that high school kids - even though they were raised Purdue/IU fans - will go elsewhere and play versus walk-on for their favorite college.  If the program is poor, its not worth the sacrifice of your body and your grades to play as a walk-on, and most would rather just enjoy being a student at that same university.

If the program is strong, and has been winning, kids will take the PWO, and that will increase the health of the program in 3 distinct ways.  (1) In-state PWO's bring the knowledge of the history, traditions, rivalries, and pride for a university that you don't have when a kid from Florida steps on campus at Purdue/IU.   (2)  In-state PWO's help the out-of-state kids transition into the new environment including the climate, community, and whereabouts.  They can bring a home away from home feel that is needed.  (3) In-state PWO's put butts in the seats and get people to follow the team... plain and simple.  It's easier for an in-state PWO's friends and extended family to get to a game at Purdue or IU than it is for a player's from Florida.  

I have 2 good examples of this... the Iowa Linebacker room during springball of 2018.  They had 19 LB's on the roster... 6 of which were scholarship.  The health of Iowa's program is strong with consistent winning seasons, and thus 13 in-state PWO LB's were giving it their all in attempts of making the team and earning a spot.  It only takes 1 to earn specials team playing time and more will get in line in the future for their chance at success.

The other example is Wisconsin OL during springball 2018.  They had enough in-state POW's to line up 4 deep OT to OT.  And they were all BIG.  Health of the program very good.  And yes, many of those PWO's could have played at another smaller in-state college.

So the fact Purdue and IU are getting really good in-state high school football players to accept PWO's is a very good sign for those B1G programs, and you will several of those kids contribute in some manner if they stick it out for several years.

Michigan has a sign in their locker room that reads "Those who stay will be Champions", and its not about the fact that they have never played in the B1G Championship game.  I think the same can be said for in-state PWO's for Purdue and IU now given those teams have moved up from the bottom of the B1G and are playing competitive football weekly now.

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10 hours ago, Coach-Ref_Kiser said:

In my opinion, the number of in-state PWO's you have in your program signifies the health of the program.  If Purdue/IU has just a couple, it means that they have been losing so badly the last few years that high school kids - even though they were raised Purdue/IU fans - will go elsewhere and play versus walk-on for their favorite college.  If the program is poor, its not worth the sacrifice of your body and your grades to play as a walk-on, and most would rather just enjoy being a student at that same university.

If the program is strong, and has been winning, kids will take the PWO, and that will increase the health of the program in 3 distinct ways.  (1) In-state PWO's bring the knowledge of the history, traditions, rivalries, and pride for a university that you don't have when a kid from Florida steps on campus at Purdue/IU.   (2)  In-state PWO's help the out-of-state kids transition into the new environment including the climate, community, and whereabouts.  They can bring a home away from home feel that is needed.  (3) In-state PWO's put butts in the seats and get people to follow the team... plain and simple.  It's easier for an in-state PWO's friends and extended family to get to a game at Purdue or IU than it is for a player's from Florida.  

I have 2 good examples of this... the Iowa Linebacker room during springball of 2018.  They had 19 LB's on the roster... 6 of which were scholarship.  The health of Iowa's program is strong with consistent winning seasons, and thus 13 in-state PWO LB's were giving it their all in attempts of making the team and earning a spot.  It only takes 1 to earn specials team playing time and more will get in line in the future for their chance at success.

The other example is Wisconsin OL during springball 2018.  They had enough in-state POW's to line up 4 deep OT to OT.  And they were all BIG.  Health of the program very good.  And yes, many of those PWO's could have played at another smaller in-state college.

So the fact Purdue and IU are getting really good in-state high school football players to accept PWO's is a very good sign for those B1G programs, and you will several of those kids contribute in some manner if they stick it out for several years.

Michigan has a sign in their locker room that reads "Those who stay will be Champions", and its not about the fact that they have never played in the B1G Championship game.  I think the same can be said for in-state PWO's for Purdue and IU now given those teams have moved up from the bottom of the B1G and are playing competitive football weekly now.

I recently took a long look at the Wisconsin roster and was astonished at the sheer volume of players in the 6-5, 315 lb range.   Bet they have 20

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The grow them big up there.  All those big bovine's that are up on all the restaurants have to be put up and taken down everyday.  The treat replica's of Babe the Blue Ox the same way we treat the flag.  Hence why they are so big.

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On 2/7/2020 at 10:47 AM, DT said:

Allen has stated his intent to build a sub roster of PWO tackling dummies.  He is just starting.  You will see the impact at the small school level 3 to 5 years down the line.  

You must be a Purdue fan.

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On ‎2‎/‎4‎/‎2020 at 8:58 AM, eschnur66 said:

Quite frankly, this entire conversation is ridiculous.  If you were a casual fan and ventured into this conversation, you might think that IU now has like 50 PWOs or something.  This is not an issue worth debating.  Until one of the coaches from Marian, St. Francis, UINDY, Franklin, Hanover, or anywhere else comes into my office crying the blues about not having players to offer, I will not buy it.  There are plenty of kids, and plenty of schools for them to attend to play.  END OF STORY!

Any issue or topic is worth debating simply because there are two side that oppose each other. What happens is there are people from each camp that believe that have the definitive answer to the original post.  When its all said and done the responsibility rests with the parents initially to help guide their student athlete in the best direction they can.  Large university head coaches will always do what the feel is best also , but those coaches must carry a portion of responsibility to be willing to tell those athletes that on the surface that seem less likely to be a contributor and  probably shouldn't join the team to look at other options.  Its great to have a solid scout team to go against and  I know there are kids who develop and become contributors from the walk-on ranks. With that said though, those of us who have played at the D1 level know there is always a sizable group of athletes who probably would have had a better chance to play at a smaller school and should not have chosen to part of a D1 roster just because they had the opportunity to be accepted.  Either way it is a topic that has debatable merit.  NEW CHAPTER!

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On 2/3/2020 at 8:39 AM, SBFootball1 said:

I too am disappointed and dumbfounded that a Big Ten coach would go out and try to get the best talent in the state on his roster.  🙄

First IU didnt recruit enough in state, now he is taking too many guys.  Can't have it both ways.  Some of these kids have D1/Big Ten dreams.

This post seems like it really garnered the most up tics.  So I will say that if the mighty alluring Big Ten coach thought the guy was the best talent ,then why not pony up the scholarship. Indiana has as many as Ohio State. It’s not so much IU didn’t recruit in state, no one ever said that, but their was mention that they couldn’t get the elite prospects. This PWO route doesn’t address Indiana’s real problem.

 

 

 

 

 

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50 minutes ago, southend said:

This post seems like it really garnered the most up tics.  So I will say that if the mighty alluring Big Ten coach thought the guy was the best talent ,then why not pony up the scholarship. Indiana has as many as Ohio State. It’s not so much IU didn’t recruit in state, no one ever said that, but their was mention that they couldn’t get the elite prospects. This PWO route doesn’t address Indiana’s real problem.

 

 

 

 

 

At least you stick to your guns....no matter what the overwhelming opinions might be.  But you may want to give up thinking you are in the majority when it comes to Coach Allen destroying small college football in this state.  The roster numbers and quality of play are absolutely 100% against you.

Glad you brought up Ohio State....you don't think they never go down this path?  Wonder about the negative impact on Ohio small college ball?

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/2018/02/90946/ohio-state-welcomes-more-than-a-dozen-walk-ons-to-program

https://ohiostatebuckeyes.com/walk-ons-play-help-shape-winning-culture/

Looks like ND has some experience in this area as well............

https://notredame.rivals.com/news/nine-freshmen-walk-ons-join-2018-notre-dame-roster

Let's not forget Purdue......

https://purdue.rivals.com/news/purdue-boilermakers-football-41

Purdue’s roster of preferred 2019 walk-ons continues to grow, as the program received a pledge from Alex Maxwell of East Central High in St. Leon, Ind., last week. Maxwell started at quarterback the last three years for East Central, but he will play receiver at Purdue.

Singling out Indiana for a pretty common practive in D1 football?  Kind of struggling with your logic.

 

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3 hours ago, TrojanDad said:

Singling out Indiana for a pretty common practive in D1

You bet, I’m very concerned with The health of all of the state of Indiana football.. I could care less about what the other  states do, common practice doesn’t make it a healthy practice. 

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4 hours ago, southend said:

You bet, I’m very concerned with The health of all of the state of Indiana football.. I could care less about what the other  states do, common practice doesn’t make it a healthy practice. 

You have zero proof of any decay whatsoever of football below the D1 level based on PWO's being offered by IU.  ZERO.

But, if you want to be concerned about the health of Indiana college football....knock yourself out.  

BTW, you mentioned IU's scholarship amounts equaling Ohio State, and I merely indicated Ohio State also offers PWO's.  (as does pretty much every major D1 FBS program)

 

 

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On 2/7/2020 at 10:47 AM, DT said:

Allen has stated his intent to build a sub roster of PWO tackling dummies.  He is just starting.  You will see the impact at the small school level 3 to 5 years down the line.  

Fake news !!

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19 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

You have zero proof of any decay whatsoever of football below the D1 level based on PWO's being offered by IU.  ZERO.

But, if you want to be concerned about the health of Indiana college football....knock yourself out.  

BTW, you mentioned IU's scholarship amounts equaling Ohio State, and I merely indicated Ohio State also offers PWO's.  (as does pretty much every major D1 FBS program)

All FBS schools have same number of scholarships, 85.

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2 minutes ago, psaboy said:

All FBS schools have same number of scholarships, 85.

Yep....I understand...just responded to SE's early comments about scholly total's in context to PWO's

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I know this will come as a complete land utter shock to you all, but I’m a Purdue fan.  I see nothing wrong with what Coach Allen is doing.  Classifying the walk-one as “preferred” does not increased the number of scholarships, but rather gives the walk-ons impetus to try harder.  Who knows?  Maybe they’ll see the field..

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