The Coronavirus - a virus from eating bats, an accident or something sinister gone wrong?

[Muda69]

Indiana extends dine-in ban for restaurants and bars: https://www.indystar.com/story/news/2020/03/31/indiana-extends-dine-ban-restaurants-and-bars-covid-19/5099472002/

Quote

Indiana Gov. Eric Holcomb issued an executive order Tuesday extending the dine-in ban on restaurants, bars and nightclubs through April 6. They are still allowed to provide take-out, drive-thru and delivery services.

 

Holcomb issued two executive orders Monday regarding food and dining, including one enforcing stiffer penalties for establishments that continue to allow dine-in patrons and one easing restrictions on alcohol permits that allowed carryout. 

The governor initially ordered establishments to stop dine-in services March 16. 

And how many more restaurants, bars, and nightclubs will close their doors, never to reopen?  How many more hard working Hoosiers will lose their jobs, and now have to depend on government "largess" to survive?  Perhaps that is the end game after all..................

 

[Muda69]

SIA shutdown, GE Aviation furloughs, Arconic layoffs follow slowing markets: https://www.jconline.com/story/news/2020/03/31/coronavirus-ge-aviation-furloughs-arconic-layoffs-follow-slowing-markets/5099695002/

Quote

GE Aviation announced Tuesday it will begin implementing a temporary reduction in commercial engine assembly and some component manufacturing operations. Perry Bradley, a GE Aviation spokesman, said the company will implement a “temporary lack of work,” or furlough, of its employees over the next four weeks beginning April 6.

This will impact around 50 percent of GE Aviation’s U.S. engine assembly and component manufacturing operations, and will be implemented in plants across the country, including the Lafayette plant.

The impact will vary site-by-site, depending on product mix and customer base.

The shutdown is due to the declining commercial aviation industry, which has been heavily impacted by coronavirus, Bradley said.

Subaru of Indiana Automotive Inc., which shut down production at its Lafayette plan on March 23 due to what the automaker called “market demand,” extended its shutdown a third week, through April 17, the company announced Tuesday.

The company had been scheduled to return to make Subaru models on April 6. The company reported that its manufacturing facilities in Japan and the U.S. “will continue to be halted due to supply chain interruptions and to adjust production volume in response to rapidly declining global demand as a result of COVID-19.”

According to Craig Koven, an SIA spokesman, all associates at the Lafayette plant will get full pay through April 10. So would temporary production associates with at least 90 days of service at SIA. Koven said information regarding pay for the week of April 13-17 “is forthcoming.”

 

The Lafayette plant had previously scheduled to shut down for a week, starting March 23, citing "market demand." SIA’s extended the closure last week, attributing it to Gov. Eric Holcomb’s stay-at-home order, which went into effect 11:59 p.m. March 24, to safeguard employee safety and to “adjust volume for deteriorating market conditions as a result of COVID-19,” according to an SIA statement.

SIA, which produces Outback, Ascent Legacy and Impreza models, makes roughly half the Subaru models sold in North America and employs around 6,000 people.

The economic slowdown in recent weeks caught Arconic, once known as Alcoa in Lafayette, too. The company announced Tuesday that it would layoff workers at the plant at 3131 Main St.

 

“In response to the temporary shutdowns of several large customers, Arconic is idling part of its production lines and is laying off more than 100 employees at its Lafayette operations,” Tracie Gliozzi, an Arconic spokeswoman, said.

That's 12.5 percent of the 800 workers at Arconic's Lafayette plant.

The Lafayette area economy is dying.  Of course all the government workers at Purdue are probably safe regardless of whether the campus is open or not.  

[Muda69]

L.A. Bureaucrats Shut Down Restaurants for Selling Groceries Without a Permit: https://reason.com/2020/03/31/los-angeles-bureaucrats-barbara-ferrer-shut-down-restaurants-for-selling-groceries-without-a-permit/

Quote

A few Los Angeles restaurants struggling to maintain footing amid the COVID-19 outbreak identified a clever way to generate revenue while still serving the community: Start selling groceries.

The city's public health department promptly shut them down. The reason? The small businesses don't have a "grocery permit."

"It's not really possible for a restaurant to become a grocery store," Dr. Barbara Ferrer, director of Los Angeles County Public Health, said in a briefing yesterday. "You cannot just decide you want to sell groceries."

Why anyone can't do exactly that—exchange goods with those who want to purchase them—remains a mystery. Such licensing laws are typically put in place in the name of public safety, but one wonders how this decision could possibly help protect the public.

The restaurants-turned-grocery stores actually provide a rather obvious public health benefit. They are significantly less crowded than traditional grocery stores, which is convenient when considering that every major health organization has advised individuals to maintain a six-foot distance from surrounding passersby.

"Elderly people in the neighborhood really enjoy coming to Bacari PDR," Robert Kronfli, the co-owner of one such restaurant-turned-grocery store, tells Reason. Foremost, "it was a super chill shopping environment," he says, with "only one or two people in there at once." Contrast that with the major chains, which have been overwhelmed with an onslaught of patrons. "They're afraid to go to large supermarkets right now because of the lines and because of the social distancing thing."

A local health inspector shuttered Bacari on Friday morning, citing the establishment's lack of a license.

Kronfli's store offered another advantage to the local area: "We have inventory," he notes, including toilet paper, paper towels, cleaning supplies—the very items that notoriously disappeared from shelves weeks ago when fears started to spread around COVID-19. Many patrons flocked to his business for those goods, he explains, and they also appreciated that they could touch and feel the produce without worrying as heavily about how many hands had touched it first.

Though he says that his conversation with the county health inspector "hit a brick wall," Kronfli is appealing his case to the California Restaurant Association, to Councilman Mike Bonin (D–11), and to the L.A. Department of Public Health. He's hopeful that the city will grant him the right to run his fledgling grocery business again. 

"I mean, it's COVID-19, right?" Kronfli muses. "Everyone's doing unprecedented stuff."

He's right, but the government recognizing an entrepreneur's right to sell groceries really shouldn't be all that unprecedented.

Entrepreneurs can't be "clever", even in the face of a pandemic.  They must conform to the state's will, or be destroyed.

As one of the spot-on comments to this story states:

Quote

In the coming weeks, you’ll see hundreds and thousands of these kinds of confrontations. Until cops shoot someone for “not respecting their authority.” One hopes that most cops will sensibly ignore rousting people trying to make an honest buck while helping out their community.

 

Edited April 1, 2020 by Muda69

[Muda69]

Reposting here the End the Coronavirus Shutdown story,  because an over-controlling GID adminstrator did not like me pinning such an important subject into it's own thread so he hid/deleted it.  For some reason pinning such a story automatically means that the GID administrators and owners support and agree with it.  🙄 

https://mises.org/wire/end-shutdown

Quote

The shutdown of the American economy by government decree should end. The lasting and far-reaching harms caused by this authoritarian precedent far outweigh those caused by the COVID-19 virus. The American people—individuals, families, businesses—must decide for themselves how and when to reopen society and return to their daily lives.

Neither the Trump administration nor Congress has the legal authority to shut down American life absent at least baseline due process. As Judge Andrew Napolitano recently wrote, business closures, restrictions on assembly and movement, and quarantines are not constitutionally permissible under some magic “emergency” doctrine. At a minimum, the federal government must show potential imminent harm by specific infected individuals at some form of hearing or trial.

These due process requirements are not suspended.

State and local officials may claim, or even possess, lawful police powers to shut down their communities. We offer no analysis of such powers or claims under the myriad of state constitutions and authorizing legislation. But they should resist exercising these powers. The governor of Virginia, in particular, deserves admonition for unilaterally imposing a lengthy period of virtual house arrest.

We do not know, and cannot yet know, how many Americans will become sick or die from the virus. We do know that predictions regarding infection and death rates are highly unreliable. Even actual deaths attributable to COVID-19 are not so easy to count, as Italy has discovered. Age, general health, and comorbidity are difficult variables to assess, and people may die “with” the virus but not “from” it. It is also very difficult to assess the lethality of the virus relative to previously known types of flu and colds.

To date, COVID-19 deaths in the US are far fewer than deaths in ordinary flu seasons or from past pandemics such as the H1N1 virus. This understanding is critically important to put the virus, and the government response to it, in perspective. Even during past pandemics, depressions, and world wars, Americans went to work.

In 1850, French economist Frédéric Bastiat helped the world understand the “seen and unseen costs” of state policies. It is simple to see how quarantines and lockdowns will slow the spread of COVID-19. It is critical, but not so simple, to see the costs and harms caused by the economic shutdown.

Only then can we rationally understand the tradeoffs involved. 

How many Americans suffering from other illnesses cannot see a doctor now? How many Americans will lose their jobs, their life savings, their retirement prospects, and their incalculable feeling of self-worth? How many will succumb to depression, drug or alcohol abuse, and suicide? How many will lose their homes, divorce their spouses, or suffer abuse? How many will never recover in their careers? How many small businesses, including the vital ones of doctors, dentists, and veterinarians, will vanish from your community? How many young people will “fail to launch”?

Worse still, will grocery stores and gas stations remain open and stocked? Will crime spike? Will the American social fabric, already thin from politics, tear apart?

These questions are not rhetorical. All of these things happened, to a degree, following the Great Recession of 2008. They will happen again—very soon—if we fail to act immediately. Tomorrow, on April 1, millions of Americans will not pay rent or mortgages. Millions of small businesses will shutter, just as many large employers such as Macy’s, Kohl’s, airlines, and hotels already have. Millions of service workers are unemployed already, but many more jobs will be lost. The effects will cascade.

There is no conflict between humanitarian and economic concerns; in fact they are flipsides of the same coin. A poorer America will be a much less healthy America, one more vulnerable to future illness and disease. Technology, modern medicine, and market actors can address a virus; already we see entrepreneurs producing cheaper ventilators and doctors using cheap generic drugs with very promising results.

This local, bottom-up approach is the only effective way to confront the virus. The federal government, as we see now and have in the past, is comically incapable of competence in times of crisis. 

On a fundamental level, freedom really is more important than security—or, in this case, an illusion of security. We all demonstrate this in our personal lives every day, from flying to driving to riding bicycles, to consuming unhealthy food and drink simply because we like it. Security has never been the sole or even primary goal for a country born in rebellion.

Government cannot decide what aspects of our lives are essential or nonessential. The American people cannot simply sit at home and wait for government checks written on funds that government does not have.

End the shutdown.

 

[Irishman]

Don't like it, you can leave. We have had plenty of conversations about pinning topics. Not getting into that whole discussion again. Want to pin your own opinions, do it in your own club. Pinning an opinion implies that it is the opinion of the administrators and moderators on the GID. While many may hold a similar opinion, it is not an official stance. 

[Muda69]

28 minutes ago, Irishman said:

Don't like it, you can leave. We have had plenty of conversations about pinning topics. Not getting into that whole discussion again. Want to pin your own opinions, do it in your own club. Pinning an opinion implies that it is the opinion of the administrators and moderators on the GID. While many may hold a similar opinion, it is not an official stance. 

When you start your response with a dictatorial ultimatum, then it's no use trying to have a rational discussion with you.  The late Tim Adams would be so proud of you.

 

Edited April 1, 2020 by Muda69

[Irishman]

For the record too...DK is an OWNER of the digest. HE pinned a topic, it stays pinned. 

[Muda69]

2 minutes ago, Irishman said:

For the record too...DK is an OWNER of the digest. HE pinned a topic, it stays pinned. 

*shaking in fear*

 

[Irishman]

17 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

When you start your response with a dictatorial ultimatum, then it's no use trying to have a rational discussion with you.  The late Tim Adams would be so proud of you.

 

Says the guy who reacts by unpinning a topic the OWNER posted and pinned. DK is not a moderator; his time, effort and financial commitment to this site earns him the right to pin whatever topic he sees fit. 

[Muda69]

Just now, Irishman said:

Says the guy who reacts by unpinning a topic the OWNER posted and pinned. DK is not a moderator; his time, effort and financial commitment to this site earns him the right to pin whatever topic he sees fit. 

How do I know he pinned that topic, Irishman?  It could have been any GID users with that level of access. It could have been YOU.  You may be able to see the history behind such actions, Myself and other GID scrubs can't.

 

[Muda69]

The Private Sector Heroes Leading the Fight Against COVID-19: https://reason.com/2020/04/01/the-private-sector-heroes-leading-the-fight-against-covid-19/

Quote

Congress passed and the president signed a $2 trillion "stimulus" bill.

"Not enough!" shrieked politicians. They said the government must do more.

They demanded President Donald Trump reactivate the Defense Production Act, a 1950 law that lets government force companies to make things.

Trump hesitated.

That upset lovers of big government. They demanded the president order companies to make respirators, masks, and other desperately needed medical equipment.

CNN's Alisyn Camerota joined the media mob asking "What's the holdup!?" Then a White House press reporter confronted Trump at the White House, asking, "Why not use it now?"

The president surprised me by responding: "We're a country not based on nationalizing our business. Call a person over in Venezuela, ask them, 'how did nationalization of their businesses work out?' Not too well."

No, it didn't.

Venezuela was once one of the richest countries in Latin America. Now it's one of the poorest.

That's because government dictating production leads to less production.

Although Venezuela has more oil in the ground than any other country, once the socialists nationalized the oil industry, production declined. Today, Venezuelans struggle to buy gasoline.

When government orders companies to do things, companies don't innovate. They're less able to adjust quickly to market demand. That's the topic of my new video.

Today, hospitals need more ventilators. But the government doesn't need to order companies to make more. The private sector is already on it.

Automakers slowed car production and are gearing up their factories to produce ventilators. Other businesses are, too. That's what businesses do when conditions change; they pivot.

Distillers that once made gin and vodka now make hand sanitizer. The federal government had to waive regulations to allow them to sell it.

Some give it away. It's not just charity; it's "goodwill." They hope customers will remember the good deed, and that'll lead to profit in the future.

The best catalyst to spur production is simple pursuit of profit. It's what gets companies to produce new things instantly. Unlike governments, businesses have no guaranteed income. To survive, let alone grow, they must constantly innovate to make sure more money comes in than goes out.

The socialists call that "greed."

Without question, some tycoons are greedy. They pursue profit to the point that they have more money than they will ever need.

That's fine. That greed for success drives them to get me what I need.

I assume it's what inspired Ford to start using 3D printers to make face masks.
The profit motive delivers the goods. Higher prices tell companies what products are most urgently needed.

When our government failed to produce enough coronavirus test kits, private companies filled the gap. Some offered convenient tests you could use at home.

But the government didn't like it, saying the test hadn't been approved. The tests were withdrawn.

Government's rules often make it harder for private actors to help people. In a crisis, America's unsung heroes are people who overcome that.

Many truck drivers wanted to work overtime to help, but federal law said they must not work more than 11 hours a day. Finally, the government suspended the regulation.

We ought to suspend a lot of these rules permanently. Allow Americans to make our own choices about when we want to work.

In this crisis, businesses are trying all sorts of new things. Supermarkets started offering special "senior hours" so older people can safely get supplies we need.

Musicians are livestreaming concerts.

Restaurants are switching to takeout and delivery.

People have lost jobs, but if businesses are free to adapt, they'll create many new jobs.

Because demand for deliveries has increased. Amazon is hiring 100,000 new workers. Walmart is hiring 150,000.

The free market adjusts. We don't need "production acts" to tell us what to do.

 

[Irishman]

You know full well he did. But, just to show others how childish you are being....here ya go. 

[Muda69]

3 minutes ago, Irishman said:

You know full well he did. But, just to show others how childish you are being....here ya go. 

That moderation history screen shows that DK unlocked a Topic, not Pin it.  Two different things.

Sometimes being "childish"  is the only response to your "childish" actions, Irishman.

 

 

 

[Howe]

Dr. Fauci credits Trump's China travel ban opposed by Joe Biden and mainstream media outlets.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/dr-fauci-credits-trumps-china-travel-ban--opposed-by-joe-biden--with-preventing-italys-disaster-in-us

Joe Biden and CNN calling Trump a racist and xenophobe for China and Europe travel ban.

 

[Muda69]

Health Insurance Premiums Could Rise by Over 40% Due to Coronavirus, Study Warns: https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/03/26/health-insurance-premiums-could-rise-by-over-40-du.aspx

Quote

A new study indicates that, due to the high medical costs inherent in fighting the COVID-19 coronavirus pandemic, health insurance premiums could rise by as much as 40%-plus over current levels.

The study was conducted by actuaries at Covered California (that state's health insurance marketplace). It attempts to gauge the costs related to various aspects of the coronavirus pandemic, and predict their effect on consumer premiums.

The study predicts that the average patient requiring hospitalized treatment for the disease will incur a bill totaling $72,000 over a 12-day stay. The analysis found that the total resulting costs from treating all those patients at commercial insurance rates could be anywhere from $31 billion to nearly $238 billion.

It's quite possible that a large share of the patients who need to be hospitalized for treatment will be covered by Medicare, as older people are significantly more likely to experience the severest cases of COVID-19. But COVID-19 could wreak havoc on the finances of those who are uninsured or who have health insurance plans with high deductibles.

"Health carriers are in the process of setting rates for 2021," the Covered California analysts wrote. "If carriers must recoup 2020 costs, price for the same level of costs next year, and protect their solvency, 2021 premium increases to individuals and employers from COVID-19 alone could range from 4% to more than 40%."

....

Even more reason to end this economic shutdown, so people can get back to work and consumers can start consuming again.

 

[Muda69]

1 hour ago, TrojanDad said:

Its not that easy Muda.....23,000 cases in the US in the last 24 hours; 665 deaths over the same period.....the trend lines since mid March are pretty obvious.....and this is happened since measures were taken.....I'd hate to imagine the numbers if the nothing had been done.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

 

I think they are right.....the new few weeks are going to be tough.....

And the U.S. economy will effectively be destroyed.  Sorry, you can't convince me this is worth it .

 

[Muda69]

What is also infuriating is that this bill, if I am not mistaken the largest "stimulus" bill ever passed by the U.S. Congress, was passed with a voice vote.   Hell, half of the lawmakers in that room probably hadn't even read the entire bill.  Thomas Massie was right, a bill of this magnitude needed to be passed by a recorded vote.  We live in an era where for an emergency situation like this those lawmakers who didn't want to get on a plane for fear of the coronavirus could have used, Skype, Zoom, MS Teams, etc.  There are a myriad of technological tools out there where these lawmakers votes could have actually been recorded.   

But no,  we are the U.S. Congress and in time of crisis expediency is all that matters.  Bullshit.  In times of crisis it is doubly important that bills like this are read, considered, debated, and understood.  Because the consequences of their hurried passage can be felt well beyond the immediate crisis;  sometimes for decades after.  Just look at the bill that were passed following 9/11 and the 2008 banking crisis.   

No, this "stimulus" bill will be paid for by our children and grandchildren.  We have effectively hamstrung their futures for our short term safety and a few bucks in the form of a check from Uncle Sam. I don't plan on cashing mine. Instead I'll frame it and pass it on to one of my grandchildren.  They will need more than I do, assuming they can still cash it.

 

 

[Muda69]

Beware a Government of Fear: https://mises.org/power-market/beware-government-fear

Quote

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” — Benjamin Franklin (1706–90)

One of my Fox colleagues recently sent me an email attachment of a painting of the framers signing the Constitution of the United States. Except in this version, George Washington—who presided at the Constitutional Convention—looks at James Madison—who was the scrivener at the Convention—and says, “None of this counts if people get sick, right?”

In these days of state governors issuing daily decrees purporting to criminalize the exercise of our personal freedoms, the words put into Washington’s mouth are only mildly amusing. Had Washington actually asked such a question, Madison, of all people, would likely have responded: “No. This document protects our natural rights at all times and under all circumstances.”

It is easy, 233 years later, to offer that hypothetical response, particularly since the Supreme Court has done so already when, as readers of this column will recall, Abraham Lincoln suspended the constitutionally guaranteed writ of habeas corpus—the right to be brought before a judge upon arrest—only to be rebuked by the Supreme Court.  

The famous line by Benjamin Franklin above, though uttered in a 1755 dispute between the Pennsylvania legislature and the state’s governor over taxes, nevertheless provokes a truism.

Namely that since our rights come from our humanity, not from the government, foolish people can only sacrifice their own freedoms, not the freedoms of others.

Thus, freedom can only be taken away when the government proves fault at a jury trial. This protection is called procedural due process, and it, too, is guaranteed in the Constitution.

Of what value is a constitutional guarantee if it can be violated when people get sick? If it can, it is not a guarantee; it is a fraud. Stated differently, a constitutional guarantee is only as valuable and reliable as is the fidelity to the Constitution of those in whose hands we have reposed it for safekeeping.

Because the folks in government, with very few exceptions, suffer from what St. Augustine called libido dominandi—the lust to dominate—when they are confronted with the age-old clash of personal liberty versus government force, they will nearly always come down on the side of force.

How do they get away with this? By scaring the daylights out of us. I never thought I’d see this in my lifetime, though our ancestors saw this in every generation. In America today, we have a government of fear. Machiavelli offered that men obey better when they fear you than when they love you. Sadly, he was right, and the government of America knows this.

But Madison knew this as well when he wrote the Constitution. And he knew it four years later when he wrote the Bill of Rights. He intentionally employed language to warn those who lust to dominate that, however they employ governmental powers, the Constitution is “the Supreme Law of the Land” and all government behavior in America is subject to it.

Even if the legislature of the state of New York ordered, as my friend Governor Andrew Cuomo—who as the governor, cannot write laws that incur criminal punishment—has ordered, it would be invalid as prohibited by the Constitution.

This is not a novel or an arcane argument. This is fundamental American law. Yet it is being violated right before our eyes by the very human beings we have elected to uphold it. And each of them—every governor interfering with the freedom to make one’s own choices—has taken an express oath to comply with the Constitution.

You want to bring the family to visit grandma? You want to engage in a mutually beneficial, totally voluntary commercial transaction? You want to go to work? You want to celebrate Mass? These are all now prohibited in one-third of the United States.

I tried and failed to find Mass last Sunday. When did the Catholic Church become an agent of the state? How about an outdoor Mass?

What is the nature of freedom? It is an unassailable natural claim against all others, including the government. Stated differently, it is your unconditional right to think as you wish, to say what you think, to publish what you say, to associate with whomever wishes to be with you no matter their number, to worship or not, to defend yourself, to own and use property as you see fit, to travel where you wish, to purchase from a willing seller, to be left alone. And to do all this without a government permission slip.  

What is the nature of government? It is the negation of freedom. It is a monopoly of force in a designated geographic area. When elected officials fear that their base is slipping, they will feel the need to do something—anything—that will let them claim to be enhancing safety. Trampling liberty works for that odious purpose. Hence a decree commanding obedience, promising safety, and threatening punishment.

These decrees—issued by those who have no legal authority to issue them, enforced by cops who hate what they are being made to do, destructive of the freedoms that our forbears shed oceans of blood to preserve, and crushing economic prosperity by violating the laws of supply and demand—should all be rejected by an outraged populace, and challenged in court.

These challenges are best filed in federal courts, where those who have trampled our liberties will get no special quarter. I can tell you from my prior life as a judge that most state governors fear nothing more than an intellectually honest, personally courageous, constitutionally faithful federal judge.

 

[Howe]

 

[Howe]

The New York Times has a 180 degree turn around. Last week the NYT and Washington Post published articles stating the exact opposite.

Malaria Drug Helps Virus Patients Improve, in Small Study

Cough, fever and pneumonia went away faster, and the disease seemed less likely to turn severe in patients who received hydroxychloroquine than in a comparison group not given the drug.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/health/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-malaria.html

 

 

[Bobref]

22 minutes ago, Howe said:

The New York Times has a 180 degree turn around. Last week the NYT and Washington Post published articles stating the exact opposite.

Malaria Drug Helps Virus Patients Improve, in Small Study

Cough, fever and pneumonia went away faster, and the disease seemed less likely to turn severe in patients who received hydroxychloroquine than in a comparison group not given the drug.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/health/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-malaria.html
 

Here is the most important language in the story: “it was posted at medRxiv, an online server for medical articles, before undergoing peer review by other researchers.”(emphasis supplied)

One of the key principles of scientific research is that results aren’t valid unless they can be reproduced in other trials. Until then, any conclusions are premature.

 

[Howe]

 

6 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Here is the most important language in the story: “it was posted at medRxiv, an online server for medical articles, before undergoing peer review by other researchers.”(emphasis supplied)

One of the key principles of scientific research is that results aren’t valid unless they can be reproduced in other trials. Until then, any conclusions are premature.

 

Perhaps doctors and patients should just wing it alone against the virus until peer review by other researchers  has been completed.

[Bobref]

1 minute ago, Howe said:

 

Perhaps doctors and patients should just wing it alone against the virus until peer review by other researchers  has been completed.

I’m not saying they shouldn’t try. After all, that’s what trials are for. But even this limited study did not involve severely ill patients. Just saying don’t get your hopes up yet, because it’s unproven. And there is no logical justification for employing widespread use of a treatment that has not been proved to patients who are not severely ill. 

[Howe]

2 minutes ago, Bobref said:

I’m not saying they shouldn’t try. After all, that’s what trials are for. But even this limited study did not involve severely ill patients. Just saying don’t get your hopes up yet, because it’s unproven. And there is no logical justification for employing widespread use of a treatment that has not been proved to patients who are not severely ill. 

Agreed. This is a new virus and no one has had sufficient time to conduct traditional medical analysis of any treatment. I have posted several video's and articles of people who were severely ill from COVID-19 and credited the hydroxychloroquine treatment with saving their lives. I have also posted video's of doctors who stated the same.

 

[Howe]