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The Coronavirus - a virus from eating bats, an accident or something sinister gone wrong?

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If people don't start social distancing on trails, more may be shut down: https://www.indystar.com/story/news/health/2020/03/26/coronavirus-indiana-social-distancing-parks/2916559001/

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Hoosiers may be eager to go outside amid Gov. Eric Holcomb's stay-at-home order, but that doesn't mean measures to prevent the spread of COVID-19 can be ignored.

While you're allowed to go outside during the order, you must obey social distancing rules by staying at least six feet from people around you. Failing to do this could result in nobody getting to use outside getaway spots like trails.

On Wednesday morning, Carmel Clay Parks & Recreation announced the closure of a section of the Monon Greenway between Main Street and Gradle Drive.

"When the trail is crowded, looking similar to the recent photos of people on the beaches in Florida and California during spring break, we have no option but to close the trail for the sake of public health," Director of Parks and Recreation Michael Klitzing wrote in an email to IndyStar.

Where the trail is still open, Klitzing encouraged people to keep as much space from others as possible. "If the trail appears crowded, please go somewhere else," he said.

Other cities are taking similar steps. In Chicago, Mayor Lori Lightfoot closed trails and bike paths along Lake Michigan.

"This is not a time to think about your own physical strength and conditioning over public health," Chicago's interim police superintendent, Charlie Beck, said at a Thursday afternoon news conference. "All of us have to make sacrifices." 

Back in Indiana, State Health Commissioner Kristina Box encouraged people to go outside, but she reminded Hoosiers that "it can't be business as usual."

"It can't be groups of 20 people," Box said at a Thursday afternoon news conference

The Department of Natural Resources does not plan to close Indiana state parks or trails within them, communications director James Brindle said Thursday.

"We have seen large numbers of people enjoying our outdoor properties all across the state all week," he said.

Brindle said park employees are monitoring their properties and encouraging social distancing. The department's safety measures differ depending on the activity. Playgrounds have been closed, for example, while golf courses have had rakes removed from bunkers and flags removed from greens. Golfers also can not use golf carts.

Brindle said DNR hasn't had issues with visitors breaking social distancing rules.

"I'm not saying our parking lots are full, but we are seeing a good turnout," he said.

..

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."   - U.S. Constitution

"No law shall restrain any of the inhabitants of the State from assembling together in a peaceable manner, to consult for their common good; nor from instructing their representatives; nor from applying to the General Assembly for redress of grievances." - Indiana State Constitution

:

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, gonzoron said:

You're correct. We view you as a  crackpot

“WE”?  So you do have a posse.....finally something honest came from you....
 

Guessing Howe actually feels better tonight...he should. You think your handing out an insult...you actually gave him a gift. 

Edited by TrojanDad
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7 hours ago, TrojanDad said:

So you do have a posse....

No. I talk to other members on the GID from both sides of the aisle. I wouldn't call it a posse. Maybe a guy with no friends might.

 

7 hours ago, TrojanDad said:

You think your handing out an insult.

Didn't think that at all. Just being honest.

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Do Gun Dealers Count As 'Essential' Businesses That Can Stay Open Under COVID-19 Lockdowns?: https://reason.com/2020/03/26/do-gun-dealers-count-as-essential-businesses-that-can-stay-open-under-covid-19-lockdowns/

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As local and state governments began to shut down "nonessential" businesses in response to the COVID-19 pandemic last week, firearm purchases soared. The National Shooting Sports Foundation, an industry group, reported that the number of FBI background checks for gun buyers on March 16 was four times as high as on the same date last year.

The anxious surge in firearm sales raises an obvious question: Do gun stores count as "essential" businesses that can continue to operate during lockdowns? Different states have answered that question differently, leading to lawsuits and some backtracking.

At least 10 states and the District of Columbia have issued broad orders shutting down businesses. Their definitions of "essential" businesses that are allowed to remain open vary. Illinois Gov. J.B. Pritzker, for example, exempted "firearm and ammunition suppliers and retailers for purposes of safety and security," while California Gov. Gavin Newsom initially did not.

Two days ago, Los Angeles County Sheriff Alex Villanueva announced that his deputies would be visiting local gun stores and ordering them to shut down. "We will be closing them," he told the Fox station in Los Angeles. "They are not an essential function. I'm a supporter of the Second Amendment. I'm a gun owner myself. But now you have the mixture of people that are not formerly gun owners, and you have a lot more people at home, and anytime you introduce a firearm in a home, from what I understand from CDC studies, it increases fourfold the chance that someone is gonna get shot."

...

It is odd, to say the least, for a self-proclaimed Second Amendment supporter to declare that it's reckless for anyone (except for police officers like himself) to exercise the constitutional right to armed self-defense. In any case, Villanueva's anti-gun operation has been suspended as Newsom reconsiders whether firearm retailers should be deemed essential.

Like Newsom, Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Wolf did not initially classify gun dealers as essential. But he reversed that position after the Firearms Policy Coalition (FPC) filed a lawsuit arguing that Wolf's closure order exceeded his legal powers and violated various constitutional provisions, including the right to arms guaranteed by the Second Amendment and Article I, Section 21 of Pennsylvania's constitution.

Last week the Pennsylvania Supreme Court rejected the FPC's application for extraordinary relief. But three justices—David Wecht, Christine Donohue, and Kevin Dougherty—strongly dissented.

"In light of the regulatory framework attending the sale and transfer of firearms," Wecht et al. noted, "the inability of licensed firearm dealers to conduct any physical operations amounts to a complete prohibition upon the retail sale of firearms—an activity in which the citizens of this Commonwealth recently have been engaging on a large scale, and one guaranteed by both the United States Constitution and the Constitution of this Commonwealth." Wolf's order, the dissenting justices said, "amounts to an absolute and indefinite prohibition upon the acquisition of firearms by the citizens of this Commonwealth." They added that "it is incumbent upon the Governor to make some manner of allowance for our citizens to continue to exercise this constitutional right."

Wolf responded by amending his list of "life-sustaining businesses" to include gun stores. The governor's office now says "firearms dealers may operate physical businesses on a limited basis to complete only the portions of a sale/transfer that must be conducted in-person under the law," provided the sales are arranged by appointment and comply with social distancing and sanitization requirements. 

"We appreciate that the governor heard the voices of Justices Wecht, Donohue, and Dougherty and will now allow gun stores to remain open and serve the public," said Adam Kraut, the FPC's director of legal strategy. "The right and ability to protect yourself and your family, particularly in times of crisis, is the very definition of 'life-sustaining' and unquestionably protected by both the Second Amendment and the State's constitution."

Kraut's group is also challenging New Jersey Gov. Phil Murphy's business closure order, which includes gun stores and prompted the New Jersey State Police to shut down its background check website. "Defendants' acts of prohibiting the operation of retail firearms businesses without regard to their manner of operation and of foreclosing any ability to access the background check portal prohibit law-abiding individuals from purchasing firearms for the purpose of protecting themselves and their families (or for any other purpose)," says the FPC's federal lawsuit, which argues that Murphy is depriving New Jersey residents of their constitutional rights under color of law. "Independently and collectively, these acts stand as a perpetual bar on firearms ownership….State and local governments do not have the power to prohibit the keeping and bearing of arms, nor to close the channels of distribution by which people obtain firearms."

Among the other states that have imposed broad business closure orders, Ohio and Michigan have exempted gun dealers. New York, Massachusetts, and the District of Columbia have not. Minnesota's list of "critical businesses" says sales of "sporting goods" are not exempt; it does not mention firearms or ammunition specifically. Maryland has three lists of exempted businesses (here, here, and here). Gun dealers do not appear on any of them.

Not surprised that there some crack-pot dictator politicians out there who would jump at the chance to deprive individuals of a key right defined in the U.S. Bill of Rights.

 

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2 hours ago, gonzoron said:

No. I talk to other members on the GID from both sides of the aisle. I wouldn't call it a posse. Maybe a guy with no friends might.

 

Didn't think that at all. Just being honest.

LOL....calling someone a crackpot isn't an insult.....yes...yes it is.  Just man up and own it.  

I do call it a posse....and I have lots of friends.  Just not you....

 

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2 hours ago, Muda69 said:

Do Gun Dealers Count As 'Essential' Businesses That Can Stay Open Under COVID-19 Lockdowns?: https://reason.com/2020/03/26/do-gun-dealers-count-as-essential-businesses-that-can-stay-open-under-covid-19-lockdowns/

Not surprised that there some crack-pot dictator politicians out there who would jump at the chance to deprive individuals of a key right defined in the U.S. Bill of Rights.

 

The “crack-pot dictator politicians” have to contain a plague that morons like you are helping spread.

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8 minutes ago, DanteEstonia said:

The “crack-pot dictator politicians” have to contain a plague that morons like you are helping spread.

"Like me"?  Really Dante?  Please tell everyone about my daily movements over the last 2-3 weeks that would help spread this virus, assuming I have it in the first place.

And how telling you so nonchalantly approve of government tromping on our rights. 

Also "a plague".  Sounds like you have completely subscribed to the fear mongering perpetrated by the MSM. You can go ahead and keep on cowering in place in Las Vegas Dante, I choose to live my life differently.

 

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1 hour ago, DanteEstonia said:

The “crack-pot dictator politicians” have to contain a plague that morons like you are helping spread.

Dante...calling someone a moron....now that’s hilarious!!  😝🤪

25C31AE5-AF3A-428B-95F1-40C58C67A235.png

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On 3/26/2020 at 12:30 PM, Irishman said:

So, what do you cal the people that blindly follow and are easily manipulated and buy into everything Trump says? Could it also be said of them that these brainless zombies refuse to apply basic common sense?  or that they too are lunatics?  

Funny to see what you choose to address and not address in your replies. 

Those who support Trump are typically normal people. I have never seen a Trump supporter who I would consider an easily manipulated, gullible fool or a brain dead mindless zombie. I have seen several people who suffer from Trump Derangement Syndrome who fit that description.

This thread is a perfect example. There have been multiple comments posted by those who suffer from Trump Derangement Syndrome which proved to be 100% false. The source was liberal mainstream media fake news outlets. Trump never said the coronavirus was a hoax and no one has died as a result of "taking the drug". 

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Howard County bans sale of nonessential goods from stores allowed to stay open: https://www.wishtv.com/news/business/howard-county-bans-sale-of-nonessential-goods-from-stores-allowed-to-stay-open/

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The Howard County commissioners on Friday approved a ban on the sale of nonessential goods from stores remaining open because they were deemed essential during the worldwide COVID-19 pandemic.

The commissioners’ order says the sale of nonessential goods at essential stores was “not fair” to the businesses selling only nonessential goods that have closed in compliance with the county’s public health emergency ordinance.

The ban will begin at noon Saturday, the order says. Signs in the stores must notify shoppers of the ban.

The nonessential goods include jewelry, furniture, home and lawn decor, toys/games, carpet/rugs/flooring, nonemergency appliances, music/books/magazines, craft and art supplies, paint, and entertainment electronics.

The county said in a Facebook post that the order was “in agreement by the Board Of Health, the Mayor of the City of Kokomo, and supported by the Indiana Retail Council.

“We sought and received input and support from several of the big box stores in our community along with the Indiana Retail Council. This order is consistent with our Orange Travel Advisory for essential travel only. Please stay home and only travel outside of your home if it is absolutely essential. The Commissioners would like to thank the Indiana Retail Council and our big box retailers for their cooperation in this matter.”

Howard County on Friday had seven reported positive tests for COVID-19, and one Howard County death has been recorded by state health officials.

So let me get this straight.  I walked into a "big box" retailer like Costco, WalMart, Target, Meijer, etc.  to purchase a few groceries and while I am there decide me and kids could use a new board game or two to pass the time while we are under government semi-house arrest.   So these stores can no longer sell me these innocuous  items under penalty of law.

Police State. Plain and simple.   And what is worse is they are conditioning the youth of America that government is always right, that there decisions should be obeyed without question.   Sickening.

I've got a friend who collects board games,  maybe he will sell me a couple.  Illegal in Howard County?

 

 

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Canada Has Abolished Civil Liberties in the Name of "Safety": https://mises.org/wire/canada-has-abolished-civil-liberties-name-safety

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To limit the spread of COVID-19 in Canada, “The federal government has advised Canadians to stay at home and limit their contact with others if they have been diagnosed with the virus, exposed to someone who has or if they traveled outside the country within the past 14 days.”

However, on March 21, Patty Hajdu, Canada’s minister of health, promised more draconian measures if people do not accept the government’s recommendations—which means that the government’s recommendations are actually commands, backed by the use of force, which has already begun:

In Quebec City, police arrested a woman Friday who was infected with the virus and who was walking around outside after being mandated to stay indoors. The arrest was the first time Quebec City's public health director issued an order to police under emergency powers granted after Premier Francois Legault declared a public health emergency March 14.

Dr. Horacio Arruda, the province's chief medical officer, told reporters Saturday that regional health directors across the province "will have no problem" ordering police to make arrests and ensure people carrying the virus are isolated.

In Ontario the provincial police issued a notice Friday warning people that they could face fines of $750 if they defy the "expert advice provided by the chief medical officer of health to close certain businesses and institutions and limit gatherings to 50 people or less." Corporations defying orders can face a fine of $500,000.

In Saskatchewan, people not following isolation orders can also face fines or arrest.

Civil Liberties

Section 2 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms states that everyone has the freedom of assembly and freedom of association. To forcibly confine someone in their own home is to deny them these freedoms. However, Section 1 of the Charter says that these freedoms are “subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.” This means the Charter is a sham, because the government reserves the right to arbitrarily decide when it will grant civil liberties and when it will deny them. Thus, Health Minister Hajdu said:

When people are playing loose and hard [sic] with the rules like this it does actually put our civil liberties at jeopardy. It makes governments have to look at more and more stringent measures to actually contain people in their own homes.

In other words, Hajdu is telling us that our civil liberties will remain intact as long as we obey the government’s quarantine orders. However, she fails to acknowledge that it is the quarantine order itself which violates civil liberties by presuming to restrict the freedom of assembly/association. Moreover, even without quarantine orders a significant loss of civil liberties occurred when the government prohibited large gatherings and ordered many private businesses to shut down.

Therefore, to disobey a government quarantine order is not the act which gives rise to a loss of civil liberties, but simply reflects an attempt by individuals to exercise the few civil liberties they have left.

Has it occurred to the health minister and the various provincial authorities that their draconian measures may be counterproductive? When people read about arrests, fines, and forcible confinement, is it not likely that many of them will be discouraged from seeking a diagnosis, fearing that a positive test will put them in the crosshairs of the authorities? It is possible that a positive test would otherwise prompt them to voluntarily isolate themselves—perhaps not 100 percent isolation, but close to it. In contrast, when faced with the jackboot of government, many people may simply skip the test and convince themselves that they do not have the coronavirus, and thus make little effort to isolate themselves.

Politicians and Bureaucrats Are Not Omniscient

The political response to the spread of the coronavirus demonstrates that the government does not recognize any limits to its authority. Politicians consider themselves to be omniscient as they formulate policy, i.e., the government is always right.

The reality is that the various aspects of the pandemic—as with all pandemics—are incredibly complex. There is much that we do not know, meaning that politicians and bureaucrats do NOT have access to a sufficient amount of reliable data on which to justify their policies.

However, we do know that millions of Canadians get the flu—which is contagious—resulting in about 3,500 deaths annually, compared to 21 deaths from the coronavirus as of March 22. But we don’t see the government violating civil liberties under the pretense of stopping the spread of the flu.

More to the point, there is no justification for any government policy which violates civil liberties. If the government has any role in the coronavirus crisis, it should be limited to the dissemination of information and advice—advice, not orders. Individuals should be free to consider this information and advice, as well as that provided by other sources. Naturally, each of us will assess the risk differently, just as we assess risk differently in other aspects of our lives. We must be free to make our own decisions based on our own personal circumstances.

Those who believe that there is a high risk of contracting the virus, and a high risk of severe symptoms or death, will rarely leave their homes and will likely wear gloves and a mask if they do venture out. Those who believe that these risks are low will stick to their normal daily routines. Still others will modify their behaviour to various degrees.

Decisions must remain in the hands of those affected by them. In the past, whenever I made a decision to attend a hockey game, a baseball game, or a music concert surrounded by thousands of other people, I accepted the fact that my decision could have unpleasant consequences. I could catch the flu from the person sitting next to me. Among the many thousands of people in attendance at these events, the odds are that one or more of them will have something that is contagious. I am pretty sure that most adults realize this.

Moreover, I think that it is fair to say that the vast majority of people have, on one or more occasions during their lives, gone to school, to a job, to a game or concert, to a party, to the mall, when they have a cold or the flu or something else that is contagious. We all know this. We have seen it with our own eyes. The risk of infection cannot be eliminated, not even by the government. In fact, governments often make things worse when they "take action" in response to a supposed crisis.

Cabin Fever

Aside from the violation of civil liberties, the government appears oblivious to other likely consequences of its policies. On March 12, the National Hockey League temporarily suspended its season and players were asked to isolate themselves. One week later, Ritch Winter, a player's agent, said:

One player I reached on the phone was driving somewhere and I said, "where are you headed?" and he said "I don’t know, but my wife needed me to get out of the house as much as I needed to get out of the house."

Though this player was not under a government quarantine order, he left his home after just one week, and it is not surprising. We should expect serious consequences if the government continues to violate civil liberties. Forcible confinement in one’s home may result in high levels of mental stress and anxiety, not only for those confined, but also for their families or roommates. This compounds the stress and anxiety which many of them may already be experiencing as a result of losing employment income because the government has shut down numerous businesses. Furthermore, stress and anxiety weakens the immune system, which means that these people will be easier targets for COVID-19, which is contrary to the government’s supposed goal of limiting its spread. Finally, will high levels of stress and anxiety lead to more suicides, homicides, domestic violence, and divorces?

The various levels of government in Canada have responded to the coronavirus pandemic. Their ill-advised solutions are to inflict economic hardship and withdraw civil liberties. The longer these authoritarian policies persist, the greater the risk to the social fabric.

Agreed.  The "social fabric" will slowly fray until it tears completely under these restrictions.  Then we will probably have revolution.

 

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45 minutes ago, Howe said:

 

https://www.law360.com/tax-authority/federal/articles/1257333/immigrants-cut-out-of-senate-s-covid-19-stimulus-package

FTA:

Thousands of tax-paying immigrants won’t be eligible for stimulus checks under the $2.2 trillion coronavirus relief package that sailed through the Senate, which excludes “nonresident aliens” and those without Social Security numbers.


The Coronavirus Aid, Relief and Economic Security Act specifically mandates that people considered “nonresident aliens” won’t be eligible for the $1,200 per adult and $500 per child benefit that Congress is hoping to slip into people’s bank accounts sometime this spring.

It requires check receivers to have filed their 2018 or 2019 taxes with a “valid identification number,” which the bill specifically defines as a Social Security number, although other taxpayer identification numbers exist.

It’s a move that cuts of thousands of immigrants off from accessing the relief caused by massive layoffs across the country as business is rolled back and people are asked to remain at home to prevent the spread of COVID-19, the disease caused by the novel coronavirus.

The United States leads the world in number of diagnosed COVID-19 cases as of Thursday afternoon, surpassing much larger China and heavily afflicted Italy.

The National Immigration Law Center called the decision to pass a bill that cut off so many in the country from financial aid during a public health crisis as “disgraceful,” noting that many immigrants will end up playing “an essential role in our recovery as a nation.”

“Immigrant workers and families who are paying taxes have been cut out from receiving a single dollar,” NILC Executive Director Marielena Hincapié said in a statement. “ Since no other relief package appears imminent, the stakes are high for millions of low-wage workers and immigrants, who also need economic support and access to health care.”

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Cash and the Coronavirus: https://mises.org/power-market/cash-and-coronavirus

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You know it was bound to happen.  Mainstream media organizations are using the novel coronavirus epidemic to open a new front on the War on Cash by trying to instill a fear of cash into the American public.  As Nick Hankoff trenchantly writes:

Cash has been the target of the banking and financial elites for years. Now, the coronavirus pandemic is being used to frighten the masses into accepting a cashless society. That would mean the death of what’s left of our free society. 

CBS NewsCNN, and other mainstream outlets are fearmongering again. Alarmism is nothing new in the media world, but this time, it’s not about triggering panic buying or even pushing a political agenda. 

The war on cash is about imposing a new meta-narrative. As economist Joseph Salerno explains, the cashless society forces all payments to be made through the financial system. It doesn’t end with monopoly control over transactions, though. 

Being bound to computers for transactions kicks the door wide open to hardcore surveillance of personal activity and location data. Being eternally on the grid means relentless taxation and negative interest rates, which the Federal Reserve is already gearing up for. 

None of this bothers the well-heeled boosters of a cashless society or their lackeys in the media. They want Americans reading about the threat of coronavirus cooties on their cash, which is absurd.

Germs, of course, can loiter all over credit and debit cards, smartphones, ATMs, and every other cash alternative device.  Too bad implanted microchip technology isn’t further along, the banksters must be thinking. 

In another CNN article, readers are practically shamed for withdrawing cash to save during a crisis. Every sentence, every word, every letter of the article is nuts.

A CBS News article wistfully describes how "bank note avoidance" was one of the measures taken to stem the novel coronavirus outbreak in South Korea, whose central bank removed all banknotes from circulation for two weeks and even burned some of them.   The article even touts the practice of Iranian banks, which announced they will no longer accept cash from customers.   The article also reports that "even" the laggard Federal reserve has gotten into the act, with a Fed spokesman announcing that dollar bills that circulated in Europe and Asia are being quarantined for 7 to 10 days as "a precautionary measure." 

A CNN Business did its part to whip up the public's fear of cash in an article relating the findings of a medical study of cash that did not spare the  reader the revolting details--or a crushingly trite warning from WHO :
According to a 2017 study conducted in New York City, researchers found microorganisms living on the surface of cash, ranging from mouth and vaginal bacteria to flu-like viruses. The World Health Organization recommends washing your hands after handling money, especially before eating food.

You knew this was coming, as the article states the New World Order Elites want to get rid of cash so they can better track and control the public.  

Resist this change, if you truly believe personal freedom is sacrosanct.    I used cash for 99% of my daily purchasing transactions and I encourage you to do the same.

 

https://youtu.be/o9lV2CUTYyw

 

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3 hours ago, Muda69 said:

Cash and the Coronavirus: https://mises.org/power-market/cash-and-coronavirus

You knew this was coming, as the article states the New World Order Elites want to get rid of cash so they can better track and control the public.  

Resist this change, if you truly believe personal freedom is sacrosanct.    I used cash for 99% of my daily purchasing transactions and I encourage you to do the same.

 

https://youtu.be/o9lV2CUTYyw

 

You should tell all your friends to buy gold and silver 🙂

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9 hours ago, DanteEstonia said:

You should tell all your friends to buy gold and silver 🙂

I do, along with seeds.   And to use cash.

Why do you hate cash Dante?

 

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On 3/27/2020 at 11:49 AM, Muda69 said:

"Like me"?  Really Dante?  Please tell everyone about my daily movements over the last 2-3 weeks that would help spread this virus, assuming I have it in the first place.

And how telling you so nonchalantly approve of government tromping on our rights. 

Also "a plague".  Sounds like you have completely subscribed to the fear mongering perpetrated by the MSM. You can go ahead and keep on cowering in place in Las Vegas Dante, I choose to live my life differently.

 

When you quoted the constitutional right to public assembly, you are also enabling people to possibly do just that and that is dangerous in our current situation. 

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On 3/26/2020 at 2:53 PM, Muda69 said:

3.3 million seek US jobless aid, nearly 5 times earlier high: https://apnews.com/1bae3794481cc9d02fc670480cfcb800

A recession/depression 100% caused by local, state, and federal governments.  

 

The stock market was actually starting to drop before all of the COVID-19 pandemonium, due to the Russian/Saudi oil feud/war. Your claim is false. 

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